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DNA study suggests Bigfoot exists?

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11-29-2012, 10:33 AM
  #26
Ronnie Bass
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Damn guys, I give up trying to discuss this, its a shame because if one has an open mind its a great discussion, I am quite convinced no matter what I bring to the table some people just don't want to hear it.

Lets wait for the results is the only thing I guess I got left to say, but even then if the results show there is a biped creature out there too many in here just won't accept it. Sad.

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11-29-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronnie Bass View Post
I can hide from an helicopter in the woods with ease, what makes you think its so hard? This rationale makes no sense.
Yeah, maybe. But you're also a human who has an understanding of what a helicopter is and why it might be looking for you. Or do they hide from every and any sound, object, movement they come across? There's cameras out in the wild with trip sensors to record the movements of other animals. Not once did they set one of these off? Or they just also understand technology?

If they're such strong carnivourous beasts what are they so timid about?

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11-29-2012, 11:14 AM
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Yeah, maybe. But you're also a human who has an understanding of what a helicopter is and why it might be looking for you. Or do they hide from every and any sound, object, movement they come across?

If they're such strong carnivourous beasts what are they so timid about?
Like I said man, I'm done here till the results come out. Till then you guys can ridicule to your hearts content.

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11-29-2012, 11:20 AM
  #29
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I'm not ridiculing, I wish they found out this legend was true, that would be incredible. There's just so many holes in the theory that raise questions.

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11-29-2012, 11:45 AM
  #30
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I'm not ridiculing, I wish they found out this legend was true, that would be incredible. There's just so many holes in the theory that raise questions.
Sorry man, I love talking about Bigfoot and will get frustrated when people who obviously know little of the subject tell you in no terms they don't exist. All I ask is keep your mind open, science has been wrong countless times and this is one of the times. And science would rather keep Bigfoot a myth and not acknowledge it even as a possibility, keep in mind if its proven to be real alot of people in the science company will have questions to answer with egg on their face. Alot of credibility is at stake for them.

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11-29-2012, 12:07 PM
  #31
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Sorry man, I love talking about Bigfoot and will get frustrated when people who obviously know little of the subject tell you in no terms they don't exist. All I ask is keep your mind open, science has been wrong countless times and this is one of the times. And science would rather keep Bigfoot a myth and not acknowledge it even as a possibility, keep in mind if its proven to be real alot of people in the science company will have questions to answer with egg on their face. Alot of credibility is at stake for them.
Science is a tool. It doesn't have an opinion. The scientific community would love if Bigfoot was real, though. Discovering new species is always exciting. The problem is that the burden of proof is squarely on the people claiming Bigfoot exists. Right now there are only anecdotal accounts, and anecdotes are known to be mistaken very very often. It's very improbable that we wouldn't have direct evidence if there was a sizable population of large non-human primates in North America. Keeping an open mind does not mean accepting claims that are not supported by the evidence.

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11-29-2012, 01:06 PM
  #32
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Science is a tool. It doesn't have an opinion. The scientific community would love if Bigfoot was real, though. Discovering new species is always exciting. The problem is that the burden of proof is squarely on the people claiming Bigfoot exists. Right now there are only anecdotal accounts, and anecdotes are known to be mistaken very very often. It's very improbable that we wouldn't have direct evidence if there was a sizable population of large non-human primates in North America. Keeping an open mind does not mean accepting claims that are not supported by the evidence.
I'm from a family of scientist so I know how science works, not to mention I'm not calling out science but the people IN science. And there is plenty of evidence and was willing to show it but I'm not going to do it when people refuse to believe there is any possibility they can exist. And yes I do consider people who close to their eyes to this on the same level as those who at one point refused to believe the earth is round and earth revolved around the sun. Whats the point man? Until then I will wait to see what Ketchum has in her paper.

And watch what happens if her evidence can't be debunked, there are going to be many in the science community mad as hornets about it, so NO I don't believe many in science would be genuinely thrilled or happy about this discovery. Many are going to be pissed off that it ain't a myth anymore.

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11-29-2012, 01:08 PM
  #33
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I'm willing to see this plenty of evidence you have. It probably won't change my opinion but I'm open to it.

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11-29-2012, 01:33 PM
  #34
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I'm willing to see this plenty of evidence you have. It probably won't change my opinion but I'm open to it.
Nice tone man, can you be a little more sarcastic if you tried harder?

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11-29-2012, 01:35 PM
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I honestly didn't mean it to be sarcastic. If you have something that you don't think I or anyone else who doesn't believe Big Foot exists, I'd love to see it.

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11-29-2012, 01:50 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
If Bigfoot/Yeti/Nessi/[insert other cryptozoological beast here] really existed, they would've been hunted, killed, and mounted by now.

Only possible exception are deep sea beasts, as we obviously haven't explored the lion's share of the oceans yet. For a massive mammal in the Pacific Northwest or a dinosaur in a lake in a major western country? Not a chance.
There are plenty of legitimate arguments as to why bigfoot doesn't exist, but this one is weak. There are hundreds of new species discovered on land each year. Many in incredibly populated areas. A new species of frog was found in New York City this year. A species of large spiders was found in the Pacific Northwest.

More than half of the population of the Pacific Northwest lives in the Portland/Seattle/Vancouver megalopolis. There are large portions of the northwest with very low population densities. Garfield County, Washington has only a population of 2,266 people in 710 sq. miles of land, and more than 60% of them live in the city of Pomeroy. Thus, there's only about one person per square mile in the rest of that county.

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11-29-2012, 01:55 PM
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11-29-2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
There are plenty of legitimate arguments as to why bigfoot doesn't exist, but this one is weak. There are hundreds of new species discovered on land each year. Many in incredibly populated areas. A new species of frog was found in New York City this year. A species of large spiders was found in the Pacific Northwest.

More than half of the population of the Pacific Northwest lives in the Portland/Seattle/Vancouver megalopolis. There are large portions of the northwest with very low population densities. Garfield County, Washington has only a population of 2,266 people in 710 sq. miles of land, and more than 60% of them live in the city of Pomeroy. Thus, there's only about one person per square mile in the rest of that county.
To be fair frogs and spiders (even the big ones) are tiny compared to a 6-8 foot ape. The frog also looked similar to the already discovered Southern Leopard Frog and the spider that was discovered lives in caves.

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11-29-2012, 04:11 PM
  #39
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I like to believe in the fantastical, but am pretty sure bigfoot is all guys in costumes/bears with mange, and the occasional rogue gorilla.
If bigfoot exists: we would find tracks, scat, hair,and eventually bodies or parts thereof. Like we do for bears. Large animals need large food sources. What is it eating? And finally, there has to be more than one, obviously. If bigfoot exists, it would probably have to be a cave dwelling nocturnal creature that can withstand extreme temperatures. Would allow living in relative seclusion.


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11-29-2012, 07:23 PM
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Easy. Human observation, for the most part, can't be trusted. Humans have a very hard time accurately gauging the size of objects from a distance, especially large distances.

There was a show on tv about Nessy I believe, that did an experiment that basically proved this point. The dude built a kite that looked like a pterodactyl that was about 30 feet wide and had people tell him what they thought the wingspan was. When the kite was on the ground or flown at short heights, people were able to accurately guess the size. But when it was flown at 100 feet, people over compensated or under compensated for the distance and were widely wrong.

This is the same reason that someone will never be convicted of murder based solely on eye witness testimony. It's just not accurate.
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They've done this a lot on that Monsterquest show. They took a regular log, I believe it was 6-8 feet long and stuck it in the middle of a lake and asked 3 people who saw a monster in the lake to guess how long the log was. A couple said it was 20-30 feet and the other one said it was 14 feet.

They did the same thing to measure the size of a supposed cougar in West Virginia. A guy took video of it by the tree and they analyzed it and showed it was much smaller than a cougar. Probably a bobcat or a really big domestic cat.

Canucks is exactly right. If there was big foot we would have some evidence other than the occasional grainy video of it. People hunt, people hike. You're just not going to miss an 8 foot ape walking upright if it's actually there.
Heck, even last night on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" they went outside the studio and asked people if and where they bought their powerball tickets, 5-10 people replied "yes, right down the street at the gas station." California doesn't have powerball, moral of the story: people are full of ****.

I also like how bigfoot does such a top job of covering his tracks, avoiding traps, and disposing of his feces in a manner which prevents us from discovering him/her/them.

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11-29-2012, 07:24 PM
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To be fair frogs and spiders (even the big ones) are tiny compared to a 6-8 foot ape. The frog also looked similar to the already discovered Southern Leopard Frog and the spider that was discovered lives in caves.
And it's not difficult to assume a certain frog or spider is part of an already discovered species, physical variations can be quite minimal.

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11-29-2012, 08:14 PM
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Nice tone man, can you be a little more sarcastic if you tried harder?
So far most of this conversation is just you ridiculing or belittling non-believers for stating their opinions that contrast with your own. You believe in something that, to this point has yet to be scientifically proven to exist or not exist - there will be believers and skeptics. You need to be open to discussing both sides of this - we ARE on a discussion forum.

As a reasonably educated student with a background in primatology, I'm highly skeptical and doubtful. But, I'd love to be proven wrong one day. Just don't see it happening.

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11-29-2012, 08:59 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Ronnie Bass View Post
Damn guys, I give up trying to discuss this, its a shame because if one has an open mind its a great discussion, I am quite convinced no matter what I bring to the table some people just don't want to hear it.
Uh... you're sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring everybody else, dude. You're the one that doesn't want to hear it, not almost everyone else in the topic.

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There are plenty of legitimate arguments as to why bigfoot doesn't exist, but this one is weak. There are hundreds of new species discovered on land each year. Many in incredibly populated areas. A new species of frog was found in New York City this year. A species of large spiders was found in the Pacific Northwest.

More than half of the population of the Pacific Northwest lives in the Portland/Seattle/Vancouver megalopolis. There are large portions of the northwest with very low population densities. Garfield County, Washington has only a population of 2,266 people in 710 sq. miles of land, and more than 60% of them live in the city of Pomeroy. Thus, there's only about one person per square mile in the rest of that county.
There's a difference between only recently discovering (or, more accurately, specifically identifying as a unique species) an animal that can fit in your hand versus discovering an animal about the size of a bear in a populated region.

And yes, you are right that the lion's share of the population lives in the West, but there are still lots of cities and towns and heavily trafficked roads and camping and hiking locations all throughout the rest of Washington, Oregon, Idaho, and British Columbia. Simply put, even the least populated areas of that region are still fairly heavily visited by humans, so it's just not reasonable at all to assume that a race of primates bigger than humans could possibly exist for so long without conclusive proof having already been discovered. I'm sure that there are undiscovered/unidentified birds and bugs and other small critters in that same region, but it takes beyond any reasonable leap in faith to think a large creature exists out there without us knowing about it.

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As a reasonably educated student with a background in primatology, I'm highly skeptical and doubtful. But, I'd love to be proven wrong one day. Just don't see it happening.
And agreed. I'd love for Bigfoot to actually exist. But that wish doesn't mean much in reality.

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11-30-2012, 12:13 AM
  #44
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I'm from a family of scientist so I know how science works, not to mention I'm not calling out science but the people IN science. And there is plenty of evidence and was willing to show it but I'm not going to do it when people refuse to believe there is any possibility they can exist. And yes I do consider people who close to their eyes to this on the same level as those who at one point refused to believe the earth is round and earth revolved around the sun. Whats the point man? Until then I will wait to see what Ketchum has in her paper.

And watch what happens if her evidence can't be debunked, there are going to be many in the science community mad as hornets about it, so NO I don't believe many in science would be genuinely thrilled or happy about this discovery. Many are going to be pissed off that it ain't a myth anymore.
Nobody is calling Bigfoot impossible. However, it is very improbable due to the many reasons mentioned already. Your comparison to heliocentrism is a poor one because the heliocentric model had concrete evidence to back it up. Bigfoot has anecdotal evidence.

Why would people be mad? I don't know of anyone who stakes their career on the nonexistance of Bigfoot. Scientists would accept the confirmatory evidence and move on. There's no shame in changing your position once new evidence comes to light

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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
There are plenty of legitimate arguments as to why Bigfoot doesn't exist, but this one is weak. There are hundreds of new species discovered on land each year. Many in incredibly populated areas. A new species of frog was found in New York City this year. A species of large spiders was found in the Pacific Northwest.

More than half of the population of the Pacific Northwest lives in the Portland/Seattle/Vancouver megalopolis. There are large portions of the northwest with very low population densities. Garfield County, Washington has only a population of 2,266 people in 710 sq. miles of land, and more than 60% of them live in the city of Pomeroy. Thus, there's only about one person per square mile in the rest of that county.
I disagree. The thousands of Bigfoot needed to sustain a viable breeding population would need to travel great distances to forage for food to maintain their large mass, similar to the grizzly bear. It's inconceivable that there wouldn't be concrete evidence of one, even in the sparsest populated areas in the Pacific Northwest.

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11-30-2012, 02:04 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs View Post
Heck, even last night on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" they went outside the studio and asked people if and where they bought their powerball tickets, 5-10 people replied "yes, right down the street at the gas station." California doesn't have powerball, moral of the story: people are full of ****.

I also like how bigfoot does such a top job of covering his tracks, avoiding traps, and disposing of his feces in a manner which prevents us from discovering him/her/them
.
Easily explained if you consider that bigfoot may actually be a wizard.

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11-30-2012, 05:44 AM
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Easily explained if you consider that bigfoot may actually be a wizard.
Oh ****. This changes everything.

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11-30-2012, 09:12 AM
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Easily explained if you consider that bigfoot may actually be a wizard.
NOW we have traction!

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11-30-2012, 10:59 AM
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While I understand that new species are being described every day, most that are truly "new" species are small, solitary individuals, bacteria, or some kind of arthropod (crustaceans, insects, spiders, etc). That majority of large species come from remote areas or, more commonly, are simply split out from another species due to genetic differences, small variations in niche, or simply because a researcher needs grant money. For example, I have a professor that is working on splitting the Red Eye bass (fairly common in the southeast US) into 5 species because of morphology and slight genetic variation, correlating with where the individual was collected.

Bigfoot, from what we "know", is a fairly loud (crashing through the woods, "howling"), large, and not particularly graceful (inherent in bipedalism). Also, given that Bigfoot is likely a descendant from the great apes, they are probably social organisms. This is supported by "reports" of possible family groups and parental care (I can remember one video that suggests a Bigfoot was reacting to the filmer being too close to the den). These three things (large, loud, lives in groups) should make them less difficult to find. Obviously, Bigfoots (Bigfeet?) would have a small population, which would aid them avoiding detection, but then you have to take into account the potential effects of a genetic bottleneck. If the population is so small, individuals of breeding age/viability may be too far apart to maintain proper genetic diversity, leading to inbreeding depression, lack of reproductive success, and ultimately a slow spiral towards extinction. If Bigfoot does exist, it is likely that they are going extinct. This may also explain the spotty nature of Bigfoot sitings. Most are in the Pacific Northwest, but they happen in the rest of the US/Canada, Europe, and Asia. At one time, there may have been a contiguous population, but localized extinction events (random awful weather flooding/drought, a lack of proper food in certain settled areas, human colonization, etc) may have cause the population to fragment.

Granted, much of the "research" on Bigfoot is poorly funded, typically relegated to bad TV shows and enthusiasts. AFAIK, there hasn't been a systematic survey of the Pacific Northwest, looking for Bigfoot specific evidence. Doing so may reveal potentially undiscovered habitat, but would be very expensive. I certainly hope Bigfoot exists; there is a lot of potential that its discovery/documentation would help improve our understanding of human development and may even show us more about the origins of culture/society. As it stands, out current understanding of ecology and animal behavior suggests that Bigfoot doesn't exist.

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11-30-2012, 03:39 PM
  #49
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I'm not arguing that bigfoot does exist. I'm simply saying the absence of evidence does not equate to evidence of absence.

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And it's not difficult to assume a certain frog or spider is part of an already discovered species, physical variations can be quite minimal.
In the case of the spider discovered in the northwest, it is biologically distinct enough that its discovery forced the creation of a new family of spiders. It has claws like nothing we've seen on arachnids before.

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Originally Posted by Canucks5551 View Post
I disagree. The thousands of Bigfoot needed to sustain a viable breeding population would need to travel great distances to forage for food to maintain their large mass, similar to the grizzly bear. It's inconceivable that there wouldn't be concrete evidence of one, even in the sparsest populated areas in the Pacific Northwest.
Who says there's a viable breeding population? If anything, bigfoot would likely fall into the endangered or critically endangered realm. It took until 2009 to get video footage of the Cross River gorilla.

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11-30-2012, 04:36 PM
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Well I don't know about Bigfoot but it looks like our friends in North Korea has just confirmed the existence of Unicorns!

Link

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Pyongyang, November 29 (KCNA) -- Archaeologists of the History Institute of the DPRK Academy of Social Sciences have recently reconfirmed a lair of the unicorn rode by King Tongmyong, founder of the Koguryo Kingdom (B.C. 277-A.D. 668).

The lair is located 200 meters from the Yongmyong Temple in Moran Hill in Pyongyang City. A rectangular rock carved with words "Unicorn Lair" stands in front of the lair. The carved words are believed to date back to the period of Koryo Kingdom (918-1392).

...maybe this should be in the lounge?

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