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Old
11-30-2012, 02:26 PM
  #76
therealkoho
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Factually, we all agree the Oilers suck and their management has done a horrible job.
I thought that was the Nux

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11-30-2012, 03:54 PM
  #77
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What has happened is Reality, and what people hope will happen in the future is referred to as Optimism.

Only 1 is fact based while the other is fiction at this point in time, and that is an important distinction.
What? So you're saying the future hasn't happened yet? Colour me and everyone else here surprised. I hope to get Job X. Job X requires me to have experience in fields A, B, and C. I have experience in fields A, B, and C. Job X requires a GPA of Y+. I have a GPA of Y+. Job X requires a residency of 2 years. I have 2 years of residency. I hope to get this job, and I likely will, and that's based in fact. I'm optimistic about the sun rising tomorrow. That's based in fact. I'm optimistic about graduating. That's based in fact. Optimism isn't irrationality.

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The great Burke debate is divided by those evaluating him on his current .422 winning % and 4 straight non playoff years and on what he has done, verses those that plead for more time and patience in hopes of what the team he assembled will do in the future.
No. There's not some line in the sand. You're not either a "Burke Supporter" or a "Burke Denier." That's bizarrely black-and-white thinking. I really don't get the "us versus them" mentality that's going on here.

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When an employer calls an employee into his office in any business and does a performance review, do you believe he is basing his evaluation on what you have done for his business since you were hired, or what he hopes you will do from this point going forward?
This is called prospective versus retrospective evaluation, and guess what? You make the same call every time you elect an official to public office. What has this person done in the past? What is he likely to do in the future? Neither is particularly more valid than the other. You need to weight them accordingly.

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In Burke's case the actual results show the team is lower in the standings today, then when he took over the job 4 years ago. So believing the team is better on paper is an intangible debate as they're not better on the ice where it counts and is measured by the evidence in hand.
Maybe not, but this is a frightening state of mind to take. It's like you've completely dismissed any argument that takes into account the posturing of the team. And I have no idea why. It's like you're voluntarily refusing to evaluate the state of this team holistically. Why would that be?

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Factually, we all agree the Oilers suck and their management has done a horrible job.
A. Burke's record is a little misleading in winning % because he took on some horrible teams in Hartford and Toronto...but it is hardly impressive at the same time. 7/15 playofff appearances is below .500 as well

B. What are you arguing the Oilers for? Aren't we talking about the Leafs? And duh...yes when you are able to draft 3 first overall picks 3 years in a row its not from being a good team who is neccessarily well managed. Don't understand what you are implying.

But one thing I do believe is that the Oilers are poised to have a breakout year soon...Too much top level talent not to. Not saying they will win the Cup but they will not be the laughing stock of the NHL much longer. I cant say that about the Leafs, however. That's the difference between the two rebuilding franchises for me....but its all hearsay right. We will see how it plays out. Which team will emerge from the bowels of the league first.

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11-30-2012, 05:11 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
B. What are you arguing the Oilers for? Aren't we talking about the Leafs? And duh...yes when you are able to draft 3 first overall picks 3 years in a row its not from being a good team who is neccessarily well managed. Don't understand what you are implying.
The quintessential argument why Burke is a terrible GM [ignore the lucky Stanley Cup win and his record with Nonis and the Canucks] and a failure to Toronto is grounded on the results of the team thus far. Not my argument, but the argument of many.

If you look at the Oilers, everyone from here to Sweden thinks they are doing everything right and should be the gold standard for how to build a Stanley Cup Champion team.

Problem is if you take the results of the Oilers franchise as the only factor to determine the quality of work being done in Edmonton... well you end up thinking far less of Tambellini than Burke. But no one says anything of it.

It's just a contradictory stance to make your argument based on. Go on and ask people who despise what Burke is doing and love what Tambellini is doing. The correlation is very high between those who hate Burke for getting little to no results and those love Edmonton for the future that the team holds.

Question is: why hold Burke responsible for his results yet ignore the Oilers results and base them off of what potential they hold?

I'm comfortable with the assessment that Edmonton has more potential sure, but Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri, JVR, etc. etc. arn't chopped liver.

The Toronto Maple Leafs potential is quite good right now IMHO and I'm also comfortable with letting that assessment sit until we know more.

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11-30-2012, 05:13 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
But one thing I do believe is that the Oilers are poised to have a breakout year soon...Too much top level talent not to. Not saying they will win the Cup but they will not be the laughing stock of the NHL much longer. I cant say that about the Leafs, however. That's the difference between the two rebuilding franchises for me....but its all hearsay right. We will see how it plays out. Which team will emerge from the bowels of the league first.
I couldn't say it much better, although I feel I can also say that about Toronto.

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11-30-2012, 05:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I couldn't say it much better, although I feel I can also say that about Toronto.
Yeah exactly...well its sports. Its all perspective. Winning proline or beating the spread in an NFL game isn't that easy or I wouldn't work. Nothing is guaranteed in sports. There are many variables, but we certainly can make educated guesses. I just don't feel if you take Edmonton's core of under 25 players and compare them to the Leafs...well I don't think the Leafs come on top. Not by a long shot. You can't compare Kadri or Colborne to RNH or Hall.....Shultz to Gardiner or Reilly maybe.....Then there is Eberle vs. Kessel. Love Phil. I am not a Kessel basher but I'd take Eberle. Younger and more jam...IMO. I don't know...I think if you're gonna suck...you might as well suck hard...then at least you will be rewarded.

The worst kind of sucking is that JFJ era of missing the playoffs by 2 points or waiting for the results of the NJ-NYI game to see if you make the playoffs.

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11-30-2012, 05:50 PM
  #82
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The quintessential argument why Burke is a terrible GM [ignore the lucky Stanley Cup win and his record with Nonis and the Canucks] and a failure to Toronto is grounded on the results of the team thus far. Not my argument, but the argument of many.

If you look at the Oilers, everyone from here to Sweden thinks they are doing everything right and should be the gold standard for how to build a Stanley Cup Champion team.

Problem is if you take the results of the Oilers franchise as the only factor to determine the quality of work being done in Edmonton... well you end up thinking far less of Tambellini than Burke. But no one says anything of it.

It's just a contradictory stance to make your argument based on. Go on and ask people who despise what Burke is doing and love what Tambellini is doing. The correlation is very high between those who hate Burke for getting little to no results and those love Edmonton for the future that the team holds.

Question is: why hold Burke responsible for his results yet ignore the Oilers results and base them off of what potential they hold?

I'm comfortable with the assessment that Edmonton has more potential sure, but Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri, JVR, etc. etc. arn't chopped liver.

The Toronto Maple Leafs potential is quite good right now IMHO and I'm also comfortable with letting that assessment sit until we know more.
The Oilers and Leafs have had two different strategies to rebuilding.
Tambo embraced a full rebuild and has stuck to it ever since. He realized his team and prospects were crap. He traded away Penner and got Klefbom, a top defensive prospect. He has also shyed away from over paying FA's in the past years. Could he have thrown all his money at Suter? yes, but rather he went hard after Schultz and landed another top d prospect. Did not signing top free agents and not trading prospects/picks for more established players hurt them the last years? yes. But in keeping on one path he has build a solid core with 4 dynamic forwards and 2-3 top defenseman.

The Oilers have followed one consistant path and strayed from in rarely. This lead them to be a lousy team with top prospects

Burkes intial strategy was win now. Hence the Kessel trade. And since then he has flip flopped from focusing on building the team through prospects vs mortgaging the future to win now. This has left the leafs with decent prospects and decent established players (Kessel is a superior player) But in doing this, he was not able to win this year/last year because he traded established players for prospects (Buechemin) and was also not able to build a solid core because he traded away top picks (Sequin, Hamilton) for established players.

The leafs have flip flopped on ideologies and this has lead them to be a lower quality team with middle of the pack prospects

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Old
11-30-2012, 06:01 PM
  #83
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4 years no playoffs, I'm loving it.

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Old
11-30-2012, 06:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
The Oilers and Leafs have had two different strategies to rebuilding.
Tambo embraced a full rebuild and has stuck to it ever since. He realized his team and prospects were crap. He traded away Penner and got Klefbom, a top defensive prospect. He has also shyed away from over paying FA's in the past years. Could he have thrown all his money at Suter? yes, but rather he went hard after Schultz and landed another top d prospect. Did not signing top free agents and not trading prospects/picks for more established players hurt them the last years? yes. But in keeping on one path he has build a solid core with 4 dynamic forwards and 2-3 top defenseman.

The Oilers have followed one consistant path and strayed from in rarely. This lead them to be a lousy team with top prospects

Burkes intial strategy was win now. Hence the Kessel trade. And since then he has flip flopped from focusing on building the team through prospects vs mortgaging the future to win now. This has left the leafs with decent prospects and decent established players (Kessel is a superior player) But in doing this, he was not able to win this year/last year because he traded established players for prospects (Buechemin) and was also not able to build a solid core because he traded away top picks (Sequin, Hamilton) for established players.

The leafs have flip flopped on ideologies and this has lead them to be a lower quality team with middle of the pack prospects
Kessel was not "win now". He was 21 years old.

And I hope you're not suggesting the reason Edmonton doesn't get a lot of top free agents is by choice.

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Old
11-30-2012, 06:40 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
#1. He has also shyed away from over paying FA's in the past years.

#2. 2-3 top defenseman.

#3. Burkes intial strategy was win now. Hence the Kessel trade.

The leafs have flip flopped on ideologies and this has lead them to be a lower quality team with middle of the pack prospects
Couldn't disagree more.

#1. Edmonton has employed a full on drafting rebuild strategy for one; it is a guaranteed form of player acquisition with little cost and two; the Oilers have a very difficult time in the FA market signing established top tier NHL players. It makes perfect sense for their franchise. It isn't as black and white as saying "Tambellini could have signed whomever if he wanted but chose a superior path". Both approaches have risks and the Oilers and Tambellini chose the one best suited for their franchise.

#2. Edmonton has good defensive prospects but where are you getting 2-3 top defensemen? Neither of these prospects have made an impact at the NHL level and chances are they don't have a #1 defenseman in the bunch... to me your assessment is off. I agree they are good, don't get me wrong, but so are Gardiner and Reilly. And where is Edmonton's answer for Phaneuf? The truth is they don't have one.

#3. Burke's strategy is heavily contested and I won't say it is the best strategy either but it is most definitely not a "win now" strategy. I don't think I need to inform you how old Kessel was at the time of the trade and I probably don't have to present to you a list of Burke's trades and acquisitions either to show he's been acquiring young talent for the future of the franchise.

We can debate all day but I think it really boils down to this: if you water down the argument of Burke vs. Tambellini into a comparison of prospects than you are only telling half the story. You are essentially excluding any players 22 and up due to the nature of any impact player graduating to a different status.

Most of Burke's best acquisitions are still well before or just hitting their prime now. When you consider that you get this:

Hall
Eberle
Yakapov
RNH
Schultz
MPS

vs.

Kessel
Lupul
JVR
Gardiner
Reilly
Kadri
Phaneuf

You could argue all day about who wins the match up and I'd even be inclined to go with Edmonton based purely on their potential, but it surely paints a different picture than you are presenting: top tier versus mediocre. It's simply not true.

And to get the argument back on track: an only results based argument for judging Burke either means you are contradicting yourself when you consider the Oilers, or you just happen to think they suck and so does Tambellini too. It is far more prudent argument to look at what Burke has acquired and consider what the potential of those players are too.


Last edited by marty111: 11-30-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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Old
11-30-2012, 06:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Kessel was not "win now". He was 21 years old.

And I hope you're not suggesting the reason Edmonton doesn't get a lot of top free agents is by choice.
Bingo.

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11-30-2012, 06:49 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Kessel was not "win now". He was 21 years old.

And I hope you're not suggesting the reason Edmonton doesn't get a lot of top free agents is by choice.
In a sense he was, they traded 2 1st rounds picks and a 2nd in the upcoming drafts. Burke had a good idea of who he was getting and mortgaged the future on him. He wanted to get a sniper to propel his team into the playoff, watch any video from his tenure around that time and its clear.

Edmonton is no hotspot by any means but if you throw enough money at a player and theyll come, look at Connolly to the Leafs, or better, Wideman to the Flames. Wideman got a 5 year outrageous deal with a NTC. Is the city of Calgary ( a mere 3 hour drive from EDM) that much better. Is the hockey team of Calgary, one that is one the down-turn, better then going to a team looking to start their up swing. Money talks. Im glad Tambo kept his money and now has cap space even with having to sign core players.

TML and EDM are currently on similar tracks but had the Leafs followed one path they would have an elite core.

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11-30-2012, 06:55 PM
  #88
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Couldn't disagree more.

#1. Edmonton has employed a full on drafting rebuild strategy for one; it is a guaranteed form of player acquisition with little cost and two; the Oilers have a very difficult time in the FA market signing established top tier NHL players. It makes perfect sense for their franchise. It isn't as black and white as saying "Tambellini could have signed whomever if he wanted but chose a superior path". Both approaches have risks and the Oilers and Tambellini chose the one best suited for their franchise.

#2. Edmonton has good defensive prospects but where are you getting 2-3 top defensemen? Neither of these prospects have made an impact at the NHL level and chances are they don't have a #1 defenseman in the bunch... to me your assessment is off. I agree they are good, don't get me wrong, but so are Gardiner and Reilly. And where is Edmonton's answer for Phaneuf? The truth is they don't have one.

#3. Burke's strategy is heavily contested and I won't say it is the best strategy either but it is most definitely not a "win now" strategy. I don't think I need to inform you how old Kessel was at the time of the trade and I probably don't have to present to you a list of Burke's trades and acquisitions either to show he's been acquiring young talent for the future of the franchise.

We can debate all day but I think it really boils down to this: if you water down the argument of Burke vs. Tambellini into a comparison of prospects than you are only telling half the story. You are essentially excluding any players 22 and up due to the nature of any impact player graduating to a different status.

Most of Burke's best acquisitions are still well before or just hitting their prime now. When you consider that you get this:

Hall
Eberle
RNH
Schultz
MPS
Klefbom

vs.

Kessel
Lupul
JVR
Gardiner
Reilly
Kadri
Phaneuf

You could argue all day about who wins the match up and I'd even be inclined to go with Edmonton based purely on their potential, but it surely paints a different picture than you are presenting: top tier versus mediocre. It's simply not true.

And to get the argument back on track: an only results based argument for judging Burke either means you are contradicting yourself when you consider the Oilers, or you just happen to think they suck and so does Tambellini too. It is far more prudent argument to look at what Burke has acquired and consider what the potential of those players are too.
Ill just speak to your comparisons because I dont want to derail this thread.

1) It leaves off Yakupov but includes Reilly
2) Includes Phaneuf but leaves off Whitney
3)Includes JVR but his value is purely draft pedigree and optimism. One could make a case that a guy like Hartikenan could catch up to the level of JVR but im not going to go homer overload and start that.

Not here mock Burke, just pointing out that some of his moves in Toronto have been questionable and some harmed the future. I agree that currently and in the past the Oilers have been worse then the TML. Just an outsider pointing out a weird strategy by BB

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11-30-2012, 07:00 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
In a sense he was, they traded 2 1st rounds picks and a 2nd in the upcoming drafts. Burke had a good idea of who he was getting and mortgaged the future on him.

TML and EDM are currently on similar tracks but had the Leafs followed one path they would have an elite core.
Burke traded future for future. Regardless of what a young 21 year old player would bring to the Leafs, Kessel was traded to be a building block for the Maple Leafs... not for just one year to get into the playoffs.

And again, Edmonton's core is very good, I just don't believe it to be vastly superior to the Maple Leafs. In fact, I think it's closer then most would admit here on the board.

So your argument is that Edmonton has an elite core while Toronto has a mediocre core? Given that A. Edmonton currently doesn't have one player putting up the same numbers as some of the Maple Leafs and B. Toronto has a few elite prospects/young NHLers themselves?

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11-30-2012, 07:03 PM
  #90
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Ill just speak to your comparisons because I dont want to derail this thread.

1) It leaves off Yakupov but includes Reilly
2) Includes Phaneuf but leaves off Whitney
3)Includes JVR but his value is purely draft pedigree and optimism. One could make a case that a guy like Hartikenan could catch up to the level of JVR but im not going to go homer overload and start that.

Not here mock Burke, just pointing out that some of his moves in Toronto have been questionable and some harmed the future. I agree that currently and in the past the Oilers have been worse then the TML. Just an outsider pointing out a weird strategy by BB
Forgot Yakapov, honest mistake.

But in no way, shape or form is Whitney the same level as Phaneuf. He can't even stay healthy and it's been years since he's cracked 30 points... or Hartikenan as JVR (as you agree).

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11-30-2012, 07:16 PM
  #91
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Forgot Yakapov, honest mistake.

But in no way, shape or form is Whitney the same level as Phaneuf. He can't even stay healthy and it's been years since he's cracked 30 points... or Hartikenan as JVR (as you agree).
I wasnt saying Whitney=Phaneuf right now. Just staying you included Phaneuf to show his good trades. When they traded for Whitney he was healthy and a pretty good D-man.

I agree JVR has more potential and is currently better. But to this date his progression hasnt gone as according to plan and only has a career high of 40 pts. While he is higher up the ladder, Hartikanen is climbing (started as a 5th rounder) but over the next 3 years could he progress to similar levels? maybe could JVR explode and become a solid first liner? yes. For arguments sake, Cam Barker was a 3rd overall and his value was held high for a while simply because he was expected to produce like a 3rd overall. Obviously he didnt and showed that draft pedigree doesnt always equal success. On the flip side JVR has been hampered by injuries so going into next year he should be healthy and ready to play to his best abilities

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11-30-2012, 07:37 PM
  #92
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In a sense he was, they traded 2 1st rounds picks and a 2nd in the upcoming drafts. Burke had a good idea of who he was getting and mortgaged the future on him. He wanted to get a sniper to propel his team into the playoff, watch any video from his tenure around that time and its clear

I'll be the first to admit Burkes entire time as GM has been very questionable, however I really think the Kessel trade was one of the few times he has gotten it right, let me explain.

The leafs were presented with an oppurtunity to land a 21 year old top 5 draft pick and one who had just come up a near 40 goal season, Burke would have been a fool to turn his nose down at it. Kessel even at 21 had immense value, keep in mind to get something you must give up something, 2 1sts/2nd rounder was a fair tradeoff. At the time nobody knew that the leafs would sink for two years resulting in lottery picks going to the Bruins, Burke nor Bostons' GM can be faulted. Kessel is only 4 years older then Seguin, it isn't that big of a gap and besides Kessel since being a leaf has shown steady improvements in all offensive areas, he's gone from a 50-60 pt guy to an elite ppg 1st liner.

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11-30-2012, 07:55 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Kessel was not "win now". He was 21 years old.

And I hope you're not suggesting the reason Edmonton doesn't get a lot of top free agents is by choice.
Being the Siberia of the NHL might have something to with it.

Gotta love those brisk -30C October mornings.

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11-30-2012, 08:30 PM
  #94
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How is this even an argument?

This team has failed in nearly every single category.
The retool has failed miserably.
The rebuild is 2-3 years behind where it should be.
He's been here 4 years but the rebuild is 2-3 years behind? Guess he should have tried to do it faster?

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11-30-2012, 09:19 PM
  #95
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He's been here 4 years but the rebuild is 2-3 years behind? Guess he should have tried to do it faster?
Yes. Burke should have started with a rebuild instead of wasting time on a failed retool first.

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11-30-2012, 09:20 PM
  #96
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Couldn't disagree more.

#1. Edmonton has employed a full on drafting rebuild strategy for one; it is a guaranteed form of player acquisition with little cost and two; the Oilers have a very difficult time in the FA market signing established top tier NHL players. It makes perfect sense for their franchise. It isn't as black and white as saying "Tambellini could have signed whomever if he wanted but chose a superior path". Both approaches have risks and the Oilers and Tambellini chose the one best suited for their franchise.

#2. Edmonton has good defensive prospects but where are you getting 2-3 top defensemen? Neither of these prospects have made an impact at the NHL level and chances are they don't have a #1 defenseman in the bunch... to me your assessment is off. I agree they are good, don't get me wrong, but so are Gardiner and Reilly. And where is Edmonton's answer for Phaneuf? The truth is they don't have one.

#3. Burke's strategy is heavily contested and I won't say it is the best strategy either but it is most definitely not a "win now" strategy. I don't think I need to inform you how old Kessel was at the time of the trade and I probably don't have to present to you a list of Burke's trades and acquisitions either to show he's been acquiring young talent for the future of the franchise.

We can debate all day but I think it really boils down to this: if you water down the argument of Burke vs. Tambellini into a comparison of prospects than you are only telling half the story. You are essentially excluding any players 22 and up due to the nature of any impact player graduating to a different status.

Most of Burke's best acquisitions are still well before or just hitting their prime now. When you consider that you get this:

Hall
Eberle
Yakapov
RNH
Schultz
MPS

vs.

Kessel
Lupul
JVR
Gardiner
Reilly
Kadri
Phaneuf

You could argue all day about who wins the match up and I'd even be inclined to go with Edmonton based purely on their potential, but it surely paints a different picture than you are presenting: top tier versus mediocre. It's simply not true.
A few problems with your post...

First, you write off Edmonton's young defensemen because they haven't proven anything in the nhl... yet a few sentences later you brag about leaf players such as Kadri and Reilly.

You say "where is Edmonton's Phaneuf?" Good question. Where is their dramatically overpaid defensemen who's excellent seaons 5 years ago seem a distant memory? Yeah, where is he?
I'm sure they're pretty glad they don't have a "Edmonton Phaneuf"!

Thirdly, all of Edmonton's rebuilt stars are VERY early in their careers. They are nowhere near their primes. It's no wonder they still do lousy in the standings.
But half of the leafs core that you outline above are well into their primes. Kessel is going into nhl year 7. Phaneuf into year 8, and Lupul year 11.

By the time people like Reilly are entering their primes, Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, etc will be at the very end (or even well past) their primes.

He's pretty much created two teams in his rebuild. His current team (that just finished 5th last) and our rebuilt team 5 years from now (where the stars of our lousy current team will be in the twilight of their careers).

Compare that to Edmonton, where all of those utterly elite super stars will all mature into their Primes together.

It's no contest.

Burke's simply ****ed up his initial plan. So we have our "retooled" team with Phaneuf, Kessel, and Lupul leading the charge that just finished 5th last. Still no #1 Center. Still nowhere close to a bona fide #1 goaltender.

And because he ****ed that "retool" up so ridiculously, he's onto plan B, which is improving this team 4 or 5 years down the road.
If he started that plan 4 years ago, this team would look like a future powerhouse (like Edmonton) as opposed to a future mediocre team with lackluster stars.

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11-30-2012, 09:24 PM
  #97
Mike1
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Guess he should have tried to do it faster?
He did that at the beginning of his tenure & failed big time. Judging a rebuild isn't about how long it takes, it's about whether you believe that management has begun to build a young nucleus that is going to lead you to better days ahead.

Burke hasn't done the job. There is nothing that makes me believe that the Leafs are going to be any better in the next 5 years then in the previous 5. They have a never ending hole at goalie, they have no 1st line center. As well they have no serious prospects at either position so it's not like there are irons in the fire there.

The Burke era just feels like a re-run. He has taken the same approach & made the same mistakes that his predecessors have made. The only difference between him & JFJ is that Burke has a bigger mouth.

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11-30-2012, 10:53 PM
  #98
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So do Burke supporters have any new arguments? Or are they just gonna continue to run with "THE TEAM IS MUCH YOUNGER THAN IT WAS 5 SEASONS AGO"

Things that would make me happy:

1. Burke is fired.
2. Phil Kessel is traded for a 2nd Overall, a 9th Overall and 32nd Overall pick.
3. Toronto wins the upcoming draft lottery.

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11-30-2012, 11:32 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So do Burke supporters have any new arguments? Or are they just gonna continue to run with "THE TEAM IS MUCH YOUNGER THAN IT WAS 5 SEASONS AGO"

Things that would make me happy:

1. Burke is fired.
2. Phil Kessel is traded for a 2nd Overall, a 9th Overall and 32nd Overall pick.
3. Toronto wins the upcoming draft lottery.
The argument is on the disgruntled. The content side with a multi-million dollar company and majority of the fanbase.

If you want to go against the strong majority, you can come up with your own arguments.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:30 AM
  #100
marty111
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So do Burke supporters have any new arguments? Or are they just gonna continue to run with "THE TEAM IS MUCH YOUNGER THAN IT WAS 5 SEASONS AGO"

Things that would make me happy:

1. Burke is fired.
2. Phil Kessel is traded for a 2nd Overall, a 9th Overall and 32nd Overall pick.
3. Toronto wins the upcoming draft lottery.
It's about far more than just youth.... but putting that argument in a nutshell, the same could be said for the other side of the argument.

As for your list only one of those things [maybe two] would make me happy.

Although it is ironic that you are countering the 'youth and potential' argument with trading Kessel for some high end prospects...

And please, spare me the Reilly, Kadri, JVR, Gardiner, etc. etc. are mediocre prospects, or just lucky picks or whatever the common idea around the water cooler is this week.

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