HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

4th year anniversary

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-01-2012, 02:54 AM
  #101
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke traded Schenn for JVR and signed Jay McClement as two examples in preparation for his upcoming season which will be his 5th.

All 30 GMs got locked out by their owners in essence when the CBA expired and no more transactions were permitted thereafter. Burke is not somehow being unfairly treated for evaluation here as the same situation exists for his peers and the teams he is in competition for in the NHL standings.

There was plenty of warning for everyone involved that the CBA was expiring and the Owners were shutting the doors. The lockout is not a good excuse for any GM to hide behind as the reason for the current status of their team. He would be blaming his own employer for the reason he isn't able to do his job further.
That doesn't really answer the question.

With GMs not knowing the ramifications of the new CBA, especially with regards to contract length, and front loaded contracts, it makes perfect sense not to pull off some trades. I would expect there were quite a few GMs out there who may have been hesitant to make trades that they normally would have. Heck, some of the players are still not under contract because the cap implications were unknown.

Point is, technically, his 4th season hasn't finished yet, since he hasn't gotten the chance to ice the team that he may have been able to without the lockout. Once hockey resumes, his 5th season starts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
SportsNet : Spector on Burke: Four-year report card

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...0report%20card
TL;DR: Spector wants Leafs fans' hits.


Last edited by 4evaBlue: 12-01-2012 at 04:29 AM.
4evaBlue is online now  
Old
12-01-2012, 04:26 AM
  #102
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Sallo View Post
What it all comes down to is.... making the playoffs.

I still believe Burkie does not know how to BUILD a team.
No, actually, it doesn't. What it comes down to is building a contender.

Burke trading our cupboard for patchwork JFJ-type fixes would accomplish nothing towards that goal, even if it'd increase our chances to make the playoffs.

4evaBlue is online now  
Old
12-01-2012, 09:03 AM
  #103
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So do Burke supporters have any new arguments? Or are they just gonna continue to run with "THE TEAM IS MUCH YOUNGER THAN IT WAS 5 SEASONS AGO"

Things that would make me happy:

1. Burke is fired.
2. Phil Kessel is traded for a 2nd Overall, a 9th Overall and 32nd Overall pick.
3. Toronto wins the upcoming draft lottery.
Awesome.

hockeyfanz is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 10:04 AM
  #104
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
That doesn't really answer the question.

With GMs not knowing the ramifications of the new CBA, especially with regards to contract length, and front loaded contracts, it makes perfect sense not to pull off some trades. I would expect there were quite a few GMs out there who may have been hesitant to make trades that they normally would have. Heck, some of the players are still not under contract because the cap implications were unknown.

Point is, technically, his 4th season hasn't finished yet, since he hasn't gotten the chance to ice the team that he may have been able to without the lockout. Once hockey resumes, his 5th season starts..
Burke was hired Nov 2008 and therefore the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 & 2011-12 NHL seasons have all passed and been completed.

The 2012-13 is his 5th season now (in progress) no matter how you slice it, as the historical NHL record books have Burke as the GM on file of those previous 4 seasons in Toronto. While he hasn't been able to ice a team yet due to his own bosses locked the doors keeping his players off the ice, it was well known this was going to happen also. So at best your argument is that his prep work for season 5 was effected by uncertainty and the lockout.

My point however was Paul Holmgren and Ken Holland and Jimmy Rutherford etc etc and all other GMs are in an identical similar situation here, and Burke is not in some unique handicapped situation here.

GM Rutherford in Carolina had no problem trading for top line center Jordan Staal and signing him to a 10 year $60 mil deal in advance of a lockout, nor dipping into the UFA pool to land a top 6 potential PPG forward in Alex Semin preparing his team for this upcoming season. He was under the same "excuse" situation of uncertainty as all his peers, and despite being a small market team playing on a limited budget seems to have address his teams needs and made improvements and when/if the lockout ends he will have his team ready in a limited amount of prep time to ice a team he believes could earn a playoff spot by his offseason improvements.

Leafs fans have to hope I suppose that in the short 1 week scramble time in a shortened season, that Burke can pull off blockbuster trades addressing the needs for a #1 Goalie and #1 Centre before the puck drops on his 5th NHL season in Toronto. All this while not mortgaging the future of picks and prospects for instant gain during his rebuild.

Its this, what Burke and his current assembled team will do in the future that numerous Leaf fans are hanging their hat on believing & hoping optimistically will bring future success to the team and improve his status and job performance as GM beyond his current 4 seasons already past, which all ended in bottom 10 overall finishes.

__________________
Signature: There is no greater demonstration of Fan patience then to suggest to "Play the Kids " and be willing to accept the consequences of those actions..
Mess is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 11:20 AM
  #105
dirk41
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,261
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post

When he came to Toronto he had literally NOTHING to start from.
You literally don't know what the word literally means.

dirk41 is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 11:33 AM
  #106
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke was hired Nov 2008 and therefore the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 & 2011-12 NHL seasons have all passed and been completed.

The 2012-13 is his 5th season now (in progress) no matter how you slice it, as the historical NHL record books have Burke as the GM on file of those previous 4 seasons in Toronto. While he hasn't been able to ice a team yet due to his own bosses locked the doors keeping his players off the ice, it was well known this was going to happen also. So at best your argument is that his prep work for season 5 was effected by uncertainty and the lockout.

My point however was Paul Holmgren and Ken Holland and Jimmy Rutherford etc etc and all other GMs are in an identical similar situation here, and Burke is not in some unique handicapped situation here.

GM Rutherford in Carolina had no problem trading for top line center Jordan Staal and signing him to a 10 year $60 mil deal in advance of a lockout, nor dipping into the UFA pool to land a top 6 potential PPG forward in Alex Semin preparing his team for this upcoming season. He was under the same "excuse" situation of uncertainty as all his peers, and despite being a small market team playing on a limited budget seems to have address his teams needs and made improvements and when/if the lockout ends he will have his team ready in a limited amount of prep time to ice a team he believes could earn a playoff spot by his offseason improvements.

Leafs fans have to hope I suppose that in the short 1 week scramble time in a shortened season, that Burke can pull off blockbuster trades addressing the needs for a #1 Goalie and #1 Centre before the puck drops on his 5th NHL season in Toronto. All this while not mortgaging the future of picks and prospects for instant gain during his rebuild.

Its this, what Burke and his current assembled team will do in the future that numerous Leaf fans are hanging their hat on believing & hoping optimistically will bring future success to the team and improve his status and job performance as GM beyond his current 4 seasons already past, which all ended in bottom 10 overall finishes.
This is Burke's 4th off-season, when he gets to control the team that he wants to put on the ice. When the off-season ends, and the pre-season transactions can be conducted in light of the new CBA, his 5th season begins. Regardless, this is mostly semantics. and hopefully we'll be in full agreement in a couple of weeks that Burke is indeed in his 5th season.

It's not unreasonable to think that there may be deals a couple of signatures short of becoming binding. A week is plenty of time to get that done. Depending on how the new CBA effects the cap, and what retroactive punishment it assigns for cap circumventing deals (seems to be one of the debated topics), some teams may be forced to make some moves that teams like the Leafs could potentially take advantage of.

If it comes down to signing Jordan to a 10 year deal at a reasonable cap hit (not front loaded) or potentially losing the services of Eric when his contract expires, it's really a no brainer. There was hardly any risk, or calculation involved there, same goes for signing Semin to a 1 year contract.

4evaBlue is online now  
Old
12-01-2012, 11:51 AM
  #107
DaveT83*
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
This is Burke's 4th off-season, when he gets to control the team that he wants to put on the ice. When the off-season ends, and the pre-season transactions can be conducted in light of the new CBA, his 5th season begins. Regardless, this is mostly semantics. and hopefully we'll be in full agreement in a couple of weeks that Burke is indeed in his 5th season.

It's not unreasonable to think that there may be deals a couple of signatures short of becoming binding. A week is plenty of time to get that done. Depending on how the new CBA effects the cap, and what retroactive punishment it assigns for cap circumventing deals (seems to be one of the debated topics), some teams may be forced to make some moves that teams like the Leafs could potentially take advantage of.

If it comes down to signing Jordan to a 10 year deal at a reasonable cap hit (not front loaded) or potentially losing the services of Eric when his contract expires, it's really a no brainer. There was hardly any risk, or calculation involved there, same goes for signing Semin to a 1 year contract.
The excuses never end do they?

"BURKE IS GONNA PULL OFF A MONSTER DEAL AND SEND THIS TEAM INTO THE PLAYOFFS - HE'S SO AWESOME"

Then he doesn't do **** ...

"BURKE WAS NOT WILLING TO OVERPAY - HE'S IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL - OUR TEAM IS SO YOUNG AND HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL - HE'S SO AWESOME FOR STICKING TO THE REBUILD"

Must be nice to be able to flip flop at every single turn.

DaveT83* is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 12:17 PM
  #108
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
The excuses never end do they?

"BURKE IS GONNA PULL OFF A MONSTER DEAL AND SEND THIS TEAM INTO THE PLAYOFFS - HE'S SO AWESOME"

Then he doesn't do **** ...

"BURKE WAS NOT WILLING TO OVERPAY - HE'S IN IT FOR THE LONG HAUL - OUR TEAM IS SO YOUNG AND HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL - HE'S SO AWESOME FOR STICKING TO THE REBUILD"

Must be nice to be able to flip flop at every single turn.
When I get up on the wrong side of the bed, I wish we still had a GM gutsy enough to start the Muskoka-5 era all over again... Things were so much better when we didn't have to worry about all this youth movement crap.

4evaBlue is online now  
Old
12-01-2012, 01:35 PM
  #109
hockeyfanz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,954
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
When I get up on the wrong side of the bed, I wish we still had a GM gutsy enough to start the Muskoka-5 era all over again... Things were so much better when we didn't have to worry about all this youth movement crap.
Burke's Mess > JFJ's Mess >Cliff Fletcher's 2nd Term mess.

I understand now.

Burke's mess = best mess.

hockeyfanz is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 01:46 PM
  #110
Kingstonian84*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
No, actually, it doesn't. What it comes down to is building a contender.

Your right, the goal is to make a team a contender as opposed to simply making the playoffs and getting bounced in the 1st round. However, IMO we are no closer to being a contender now as opposed to 7 years ago, the key pieces STILL aren't here which is a) an elite goalie b) a top centre/depth down the middle c) a team defensive system and d) gritty bottom 6 players.

Yes, Burke has added skill (Lupul, Kessel, Phanuef, Gardiner) but really he has not once added any substance to this team which is KEY to being a contender.

Kingstonian84* is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 02:31 PM
  #111
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke was hired Nov 2008 and therefore the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 & 2011-12 NHL seasons have all passed and been completed.

The 2012-13 is his 5th season now (in progress) no matter how you slice it, as the historical NHL record books have Burke as the GM on file of those previous 4 seasons in Toronto. While he hasn't been able to ice a team yet due to his own bosses locked the doors keeping his players off the ice, it was well known this was going to happen also. So at best your argument is that his prep work for season 5 was effected by uncertainty and the lockout.

My point however was Paul Holmgren and Ken Holland and Jimmy Rutherford etc etc and all other GMs are in an identical similar situation here, and Burke is not in some unique handicapped situation here.

GM Rutherford in Carolina had no problem trading for top line center Jordan Staal and signing him to a 10 year $60 mil deal in advance of a lockout, nor dipping into the UFA pool to land a top 6 potential PPG forward in Alex Semin preparing his team for this upcoming season. He was under the same "excuse" situation of uncertainty as all his peers, and despite being a small market team playing on a limited budget seems to have address his teams needs and made improvements and when/if the lockout ends he will have his team ready in a limited amount of prep time to ice a team he believes could earn a playoff spot by his offseason improvements.

Leafs fans have to hope I suppose that in the short 1 week scramble time in a shortened season, that Burke can pull off blockbuster trades addressing the needs for a #1 Goalie and #1 Centre before the puck drops on his 5th NHL season in Toronto. All this while not mortgaging the future of picks and prospects for instant gain during his rebuild.

Its this, what Burke and his current assembled team will do in the future that numerous Leaf fans are hanging their hat on believing & hoping optimistically will bring future success to the team and improve his status and job performance as GM beyond his current 4 seasons already past, which all ended in bottom 10 overall finishes.
LMAO
So now someone else signed him Jordan Staal is a top line center.

Whenever I suggest trading for him he was never good enoughto be a 1c.

Same goes for Semin. Not too msany Leafs fans wanted him, sand those that did were ridiculed, but now Semin is great.

If Burke had signed Semin you and the others would have had a collective stroke.

ANd DaveT83 says supporters flip flop. hahahhahaa

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 02:44 PM
  #112
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Burke's Mess > JFJ's Mess >Cliff Fletcher's 2nd Term mess.

I understand now.

Burke's mess = best mess.
You gotta start somewhere when a team is run into the ground by the previous regime. Whether the record indicates it or not, the team has leveled out, and is starting to improve after the nosedive of the last decade.

P.S: I think you have your signs reversed

4evaBlue is online now  
Old
12-01-2012, 03:09 PM
  #113
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
You gotta start somewhere when a team is run into the ground by the previous regime. Whether the record indicates it or not, the team has leveled out, and is starting to improve after the nosedive of the last decade.

P.S: I think you have your signs reversed
By leveled out do you mean bottomed out?

Finishing in the bottom 5 of the overall NHL standings in 2 of the past 3 seasons, seems more like settling on the bottom than described as leveling out.

Only Edmonton, NYI and Columbus have earned less wins and points since Burke's arrival as GM in Toronto 4 years ago back in 2008. So not much room left to fall any further, so hopefully we start seeing upward trending very soon.

Mess is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 03:23 PM
  #114
4evaBlue
Registered User
 
4evaBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
By leveled out do you mean bottomed out?

Finishing in the bottom 5 of the overall NHL standings in 2 of the past 3 seasons, seems more like settling on the bottom than described as leveling out.

Only Edmonton, NYI and Columbus have earned less wins and points since Burke's arrival as GM in Toronto 4 years ago back in 2008. So not much room left to fall any further, so hopefully we start seeing upward trending very soon.
And how many teams had a worse set of assets 4 years ago?

I give Burke props for attempting to make things happen instead of heading to the back of the welfare line a'la Tambellini.

Could have, would have, should have, the team is better than its record indicates.

4evaBlue is online now  
Old
12-01-2012, 04:51 PM
  #115
JKsilverstick*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Burke was hired Nov 2008 and therefore the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 & 2011-12 NHL seasons have all passed and been completed.

The 2012-13 is his 5th season now (in progress) no matter how you slice it, as the historical NHL record books have Burke as the GM on file of those previous 4 seasons in Toronto. While he hasn't been able to ice a team yet due to his own bosses locked the doors keeping his players off the ice, it was well known this was going to happen also. So at best your argument is that his prep work for season 5 was effected by uncertainty and the lockout.

My point however was Paul Holmgren and Ken Holland and Jimmy Rutherford etc etc and all other GMs are in an identical similar situation here, and Burke is not in some unique handicapped situation here.
It doesn't matter who else is in the same situation. We are not comparing Burke to the other GMs. We are comparing Burke's tenure to the general "4-year tenure", and what 4 years means in NHL general managing.

In that sense, Burke is given a distinct disadvantage. Burke has not had an entire 4 years worth of management, despite the fact that he has held the position for 4 years.

The lockout has taken away 2-3+ months (one could argue many more were impacted), and is continuing on still. The timing of his hiring also left him in a difficult position void of many possibilities for months of his first season.

So in reality, we are looking at 3-3 1/2 years of actual moves, and yet by the wording of what you say, you can try and fool people into thinking he has been here for 5 years.

There is a big difference between in his fifth year (which is also a stretch with our current state, and unnecessarily vague/negative), and five years in. Be careful how you say it.

JKsilverstick* is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 04:55 PM
  #116
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 59,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Burke's Mess > JFJ's Mess >Cliff Fletcher's 2nd Term mess.

I understand now.

Burke's mess = best mess.
I have to tell you I got a little nervous when I glanced at your post, as that was a lot of the use of "mess" appearing in that post and luckily none of it was my fault.

However you're correct in your assessment that Burke's mess = best mess and here is why.. No one would refute that our Leafs lack talent and the best/cheapest way to acquire that is through the entry draft process.

So Leaf fans are actual blessed to have Burke as GM because his inability to ice and build a competitive team allows the NHL to having pity on us, as they reward failure of the GM and suffering of the fan base of supporting poor teams by awarding draft picks in reverse order of the NHL standings..

As a result Leaf Nation is building up the prospect pool with the likes of promising youngster(s) like Morgan Rielly as our reward. So our silver lining is being rewarded for Burke's mess via prospect pool strength. However if Burke was more successful like JFJ was, then the team would be higher in the final standings but still mediocre, and the draft picks weaker and the prospect pool thinner and the future less bright.

Sadly the NHL can't prevent an impatient GM from dealing away those picks earned thru team placement at the bottom of the standings.


Last edited by Mess: 12-01-2012 at 05:01 PM.
Mess is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 05:07 PM
  #117
Kingstonian84*
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,411
vCash: 500
[Could have, would have, should have, the team is better than its record indicates.[/QUOTE]

Thats a matter of opinion, if you feel the roster is better thats your prespective but it doesn't make it fact. Really its debatable as to whether this team is better now then it was 4 years ago, all I know is 4 years later we are STILL a lottery team and thats what stands out to me.

IMO and this is just my opinion and I really don't know if were roster wise that much better- Prior to Burke we had an elite top centre and lacked a elite sniper winger, now we have a elite sniper but no top #1 centre, so really its a wash. Burke has brought in good pieces (Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Lupul, even Kadri) but he has not managed to get us a #1 goalie, our bottom 6 is soft as a marshmellow, our blueline is deep but really 1/3 of them is good in their own end the rest don't have a clue.

When Burke inherited this team it was an aging one, now its a young one, he's basically taken this team IMO from one extreme to the other, neither situation is necessairly ideal.

Again just my .02 cents doesn't mean its fact or that I'm right or wrong.

Kingstonian84* is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 05:23 PM
  #118
JKsilverstick*
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
When Burke inherited this team it was an aging one, now its a young one, he's basically taken this team IMO from one extreme to the other, neither situation is necessairly ideal.
You are right. Neither are ideal for current results.

The difference is, young teams get older and gain more experience. Old teams don't get younger.

JKsilverstick* is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 05:48 PM
  #119
Disgruntled Observer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
And how many teams had a worse set of assets 4 years ago?

I give Burke props for attempting to make things happen instead of heading to the back of the welfare line a'la Tambellini.

Could have, would have, should have, the team is better than its record indicates.
The problem is that leaf fans simply dramatically over value their prospects.

Go ahead and look at old threads about our prospects from four years ago. (The threads have been re-posted here many times) The majority of leaf fans are talking about how fantastic our prospects are compared to the previous GM's tenures.
Of course, the prospect ranking sites (correctly) thought our prospects were pretty mediocre.

And now the exact same thing is happening. Nothing has changed. Leaf fans (and only leaf fans) think we have elite prospects. Other fan bases and prospect ranking sites still think they're utterly mediocre.

If you say "Yeah, but we have better skilled players on our team now" I'll simply point out that we just finished 5th last with our "team full of super skilled players."

Disgruntled Observer is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 06:11 PM
  #120
Aplayaz2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
SportsNet : Spector on Burke: Four-year report card

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...0report%20card
tyx 4 sharin

Aplayaz2000 is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 06:37 PM
  #121
Leaf4Life
Registered User
 
Leaf4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 529
vCash: 500
Just watched a game from the 03/04 season on LeafsTV.

It was amazing to see the star power they had in their top 2 lines towards the end of the game:

- Nieuwendyk, Francis, Nolan
- Roberts, Mogilny, Sundin

Defense wasn't too shabby either with Leetch, McCabe and Kaberle.

Those were the days!

Leaf4Life is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 07:25 PM
  #122
marty111
Registered User
 
marty111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,565
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Thats a matter of opinion, if you feel the roster is better thats your prespective but it doesn't make it fact. Really its debatable as to whether this team is better now then it was 4 years ago, all I know is 4 years later we are STILL a lottery team and thats what stands out to me.

IMO and this is just my opinion and I really don't know if were roster wise that much better- Prior to Burke we had an elite top centre and lacked a elite sniper winger, now we have a elite sniper but no top #1 centre, so really its a wash. Burke has brought in good pieces (Kessel, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Lupul, even Kadri) but he has not managed to get us a #1 goalie, our bottom 6 is soft as a marshmellow, our blueline is deep but really 1/3 of them is good in their own end the rest don't have a clue.

When Burke inherited this team it was an aging one, now its a young one, he's basically taken this team IMO from one extreme to the other, neither situation is necessairly ideal.

Again just my .02 cents doesn't mean its fact or that I'm right or wrong.
Thing is, the best Maple Leafs teams with Sundin as the driving force had been slowly in development for 7+ seasons. You could put Kessel and Sundin in a nutshell and look at everything else and see a massive difference in potential.

Back in 2000-2004 when the Maple Leafs were arguably the best they've been in some time, they never had a glut of prospects like Rielly, Gardiner, Kadri and James Van Reimsdyk. They've never had the prospect depth at all positions either. They also never had a defenseman like Phaneuf. The majority of the team was built through trade and UFA. Let's also keep in mind that team had almost double the amount of time to reach that level of success.

JFJ didn't help anything out by selling off assets to make the playoffs and never making them either. Some of Toronto's darkest days in recent memory.

I just don't get how every other team in NHL get's a pass for close to 7-10 seasons and Burke is hated so much and anyone who supports him is a "kool-aid drinker" after he's been here for 4.

I guess it boils down to people just hating Burke for who he is. They don't like how big he talks and thus far not achieving much of anything.

But those are personal agendas that ignore what is best for the Toronto Maple Leafs going forward. Burke needs some more time just like every other GM is the world and I see far more progress at this stage than other Maple Leaf teams before it.

The holes at #1C and #1G I believe will be filled. If Burke doesn't fill them I'll calling for his head too but at the very least I'll give him the same amount of time everyone else gets too.

marty111 is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 07:39 PM
  #123
DaveT83*
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,760
vCash: 500
The Level of Homerism displayed by Burke supporters actually agitates me. It feels like a Scientist arguing Creationism with a Mormon or something.

DaveT83* is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 07:52 PM
  #124
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
The Level of Homerism displayed by Burke supporters actually agitates me. It feels like a Scientist arguing Creationism with a Mormon or something.
Funny thing is the Supporters are the ones who appear to be observing and taking notes.

charliolemieux is offline  
Old
12-01-2012, 07:56 PM
  #125
jiggy35
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 173
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
The Level of Homerism displayed by Burke supporters actually agitates me. It feels like a Scientist arguing Creationism with a Mormon or something.
Science still hasn't proven that Creationism isn't true.

jiggy35 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.