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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIII: "The 11th Hour" Edition

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:26 AM
  #1
Jabroni
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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIII: "The 11th Hour" Edition

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Quote:
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull
Look for more #NHL cancellations at BOG meeting Wed. Entire season could go in early Jan. Happy holidays, fans!

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:28 AM
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Megustaelhockey
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Guys, there have been over 7000 posts on this subject on the Rangers board alone. This is now a tragedy.

We deserve better.

Oh, PS - last thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1283833

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:35 AM
  #3
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Can I start a new thread without bashing Jacobs or Bettman?




Anyway, I think a meeting with moderate owners and hardline players works fine. The meeting is for informational purposes only. The owners can only present the thinking of the mass of owners. They are not there to deal in any manner. The key is to start to end the mistrust not to put a deal together on the spot. By the end of the session the players will have a good understanding of what it will take to end the lockout. Hopefully, the owners will have a better understanding as well. If the deadlock is about more than mistrust and neither side truly can budge then a shutdown is what's needed. I suspect the moderate owners carry more player trust at this moment. In addition, my guess is that their position while sympathetic will be a bit harsher than many expect. In any event I believe the players will look at the moderate's positions and go back and try to structure a deal. I suspect most owners want a full league and not a round robin tournament. It works for the players as well.

I suspect the owners will have a non negotiable final offer before they cancel the season.

If no one bends then the whole NHL needs restructuring. Revenues / profits/ and salaries will decline sharply.


Last edited by ltrangerfan: 12-01-2012 at 11:55 AM.
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Old
12-01-2012, 11:36 AM
  #4
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The Eleventh 11th Hour...

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:55 AM
  #5
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From: @BillSimmons
Sent: Dec 1, 2012 11:23a

It's December 1st. No NHL. This is starting to become insane. You're really going to cancel 2 seasons 8 years apart, NHL owners???? Morons.

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry®
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/BillSimmons/statu...11680335605761

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12-01-2012, 11:59 AM
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Just cancel the entire schedule. They are not re-scheduling games if a season is played. It will be all conference games. They can play more games with less travel. It will be a new schedule. They could put a drop date. They won't get serious until the last minute with or without a date announced.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:00 PM
  #7
ltrangerfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @BillSimmons
Sent: Dec 1, 2012 11:23a

It's December 1st. No NHL. This is starting to become insane. You're really going to cancel 2 seasons 8 years apart, NHL owners???? Morons.

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry®
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/BillSimmons/statu...11680335605761
Check these out:

Mike Urso ‏@ursomp

@BillSimmons It's not just the owners, the players are just as much at fault.



@BillSimmons players 70% increase in salary since last lockout not good enough? 4th line player make more $ than 13 teams combined last yr


@MJChmiel 83% of revenue belong to TOR MTL NYR. What is 50% of nothing? What the players will get if NHL continues to operate like that


My view:

Cut the number of teams. Cut jobs.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:22 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Check these out:

Mike Urso ‏@ursomp

@BillSimmons It's not just the owners, the players are just as much at fault.



@BillSimmons players 70% increase in salary since last lockout not good enough? 4th line player make more $ than 13 teams combined last yr


@MJChmiel 83% of revenue belong to TOR MTL NYR. What is 50% of nothing? What the players will get if NHL continues to operate like that


My view:

Cut the number of teams. Cut jobs.
We get it, you don't think the owners are completely at fault.


Despite how much I don't like Milbury, the article posted by RB in the last thread is pretty on point. The owners still are at fault. THEY drove up the market values of players. The offer sheets and overpayment of second tier players. That is on THEM. The players are no saints but the owners didn't have to do certain things that they did. Kevin Lowe with the ridiculous offer sheets forced the hand of other owners. We saw Ed Snider do it to Nashville this past summer. Then you have Craig Leopold hand out not one, but TWO massive contracts...knowing he would try and get out from underneath them. There shouldn't be second chances or safety nets or redo's. You handed out those contracts now honor them. I agree there should be a 50/50 split for the game to be more stable and healthy longterm. But what's fair is fair, you handout those contracts now honor them.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:26 PM
  #9
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Brooks an hour ago, which we already have heard:

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
NHLPA expected to accept league offer of owner/player meeting...under certain conditions. Today's Post. http://nyp.st/U7FarG


Dreger last night:

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
May not get a lot of detail on players conference call. It's over. Great deal of discussion. NHL will get answer from PA tonight or Sat am.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:50 PM
  #10
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Not that it will happen, but what number of games could we get out of a season starting January 1st? 41?

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:54 PM
  #11
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Hard to say, but the '95 lockout ended on January 11, and allowed for a 48 game schedule. That required moving the end of the regular season into the beginning of May.

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:32 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Not that it will happen, but what number of games could we get out of a season starting January 1st? 41?
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Hard to say, but the '95 lockout ended on January 11, and allowed for a 48 game schedule. That required moving the end of the regular season into the beginning of May.
Lockout ended on January 11th or something like that but the regular season didn't actually start until January 20th. If we were to start on the 1st, I'd imagine you could get 50-55 in. Between cramming games in, say 15 a month on average from January - March, plus extending the season out a week or so later you could get that number.

From Wikipedia...

Quote:
The lockout ended on January 11, 1995. As a result, the league shortened the season length from 84 games, the length of the previous two seasons, to 48. Furthermore, the season would last from January 20 to May 3
Based on that, no reason why you can't get 55 in with a January 1st puck drop IMO.

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:41 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
We get it, you don't think the owners are completely at fault.


Despite how much I don't like Milbury, the article posted by RB in the last thread is pretty on point. The owners still are at fault. THEY drove up the market values of players. The offer sheets and overpayment of second tier players. That is on THEM. The players are no saints but the owners didn't have to do certain things that they did. Kevin Lowe with the ridiculous offer sheets forced the hand of other owners. We saw Ed Snider do it to Nashville this past summer. Then you have Craig Leopold hand out not one, but TWO massive contracts...knowing he would try and get out from underneath them. There shouldn't be second chances or safety nets or redo's. You handed out those contracts now honor them. I agree there should be a 50/50 split for the game to be more stable and healthy longterm. But what's fair is fair, you handout those contracts now honor them.
Neither side is at fault for salary escalation. They never are. System economics is the problem. The CBA had way too many loopholes.

How the negotiations have gone is another story. And the problems there begin with the second part of what you said. You can't offer deals and then demand the players give some back.

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:43 PM
  #14
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And the lack of respect in the room, whether real or imagined, is on the shoulders of the owners.

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:44 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Brooks an hour ago, which we already have heard:

Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
NHLPA expected to accept league offer of owner/player meeting...under certain conditions. Today's Post. http://nyp.st/U7FarG


Dreger last night:

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
May not get a lot of detail on players conference call. It's over. Great deal of discussion. NHL will get answer from PA tonight or Sat am.
If the conditions are anything like what Brooks reported they might be the other day, I expect the league to reject the players response. If the players don't want Jacobs and his buds there, I bet the league isn't cool with that

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Old
12-01-2012, 02:56 PM
  #16
Ola
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There is just no way 83% of revenues comes from three teams, of which two even missed the POs.

Sometimes you get what you deserve...

...many clowns covering this thing.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:04 PM
  #17
Jabroni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There is just no way 83% of revenues comes from three teams, of which two even missed the POs.

Sometimes you get what you deserve...

...many clowns covering this thing.
Even if, say, 15 teams made up that percentage, it's still not very balanced at all.

And yes, I find it very hard to believe 3 teams make up the 83%.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:07 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There is just no way 83% of revenues comes from three teams, of which two even missed the POs.

Sometimes you get what you deserve...

...many clowns covering this thing.
I believe it's 80% of the profits based on the numbers Forbes put out. The Habs, Leafs, and Rangers all brought in > $50 million. No other team brought in > $30 million. If that's not the numbers everyone's discussing than I apologize.

Here's the Forbes valuations.

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:16 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
We get it, you don't think the owners are completely at fault.


Despite how much I don't like Milbury, the article posted by RB in the last thread is pretty on point. The owners still are at fault. THEY drove up the market values of players. The offer sheets and overpayment of second tier players. That is on THEM. The players are no saints but the owners didn't have to do certain things that they did. Kevin Lowe with the ridiculous offer sheets forced the hand of other owners. We saw Ed Snider do it to Nashville this past summer. Then you have Craig Leopold hand out not one, but TWO massive contracts...knowing he would try and get out from underneath them. There shouldn't be second chances or safety nets or redo's. You handed out those contracts now honor them. I agree there should be a 50/50 split for the game to be more stable and healthy longterm. But what's fair is fair, you handout those contracts now honor them.
Milbury was on NBC Sports with Keith Jones. BC-BU game. Milbury was the Isles GM when the CBA was negotiated and during the first year of the CBA. The tools were there for the NHL teams but they ignored them. They had a cap. Milbury said the owners created the mess. I was surprised. Usually he goes after the players or the agents or the PA.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:26 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
If the conditions are anything like what Brooks reported they might be the other day, I expect the league to reject the players response. If the players don't want Jacobs and his buds there, I bet the league isn't cool with that
As a way around the Jacobs issue, brooks says players don't want the talks to be negotiations but just a chance to express themselves. So we want to talk to Jim Dolan but don't worry we won't let him make a deal without you...sounds like a waste of time, but now bettman looks bad if he says no

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12-01-2012, 03:28 PM
  #21
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I'd love to be able to walk away from this and be as emotionally invested as I am with the NYR with a team that doesn't do this **** twice in a decade. Unfortunately it's more likely that when others cancel their season tickets, I'll upgrade from my half-season plan.


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Old
12-01-2012, 03:50 PM
  #22
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Dolan wants in

Quote:
Madison Square Garden CEO James Dolan is willing to join talks with NHL players in an effort to end the lockout that threatens the 2012-13 season in its entirety, a source close to the Rangers’ governor told The Post yesterday.

We are told Dolan, who was a primary figure on the NBA owners’ negotiating committee last year, signaled his desire to become involved in the NHL stalemate upon Gary Bettman’s suggestion it might prove beneficial for owners to converse directly with the players without the presence of league or union staff.
Quote:
We’re told Dolan’s distant relationship with Bettman has not isolated him within the NHL, and he indeed commands widespread respect within the Board. A number of NHL Governors either own NBA teams or own and operate arenas in which NBA teams play.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...MnnYTIJebhPr4L

Bettman surrounds himself with his cronies.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:51 PM
  #23
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Dolan wants in.

Quote:
Madison Square Garden CEO James Dolan is willing to join talks with NHL players in an effort to end the lockout that threatens the 2012-13 season in its entirety, a source close to the Rangers’ governor told The Post yesterday.

We are told Dolan, who was a primary figure on the NBA owners’ negotiating committee last year, signaled his desire to become involved in the NHL stalemate upon Gary Bettman’s suggestion it might prove beneficial for owners to converse directly with the players without the presence of league or union staff.

It is unknown whether the Garden CEO has officially volunteered his services to Bettman, with whom he has had essentially no personal relationship dating back to at least 2007 when the Garden urged the commissioner be ousted in conjunction with filing suit against the NHL in a dispute concerning website, digital rights, licensing and team merchandise control.

The source familiar with Dolan’s thinking told The Post Dolan believes his relationship with the commissioner is immaterial given his substantial role in brokering an agreement between NBA owners and NBA players that ended that league’s 2011-12 lockout last Dec. 8 and allowed for a 66-game season to commence on Christmas Day.
Quote:
We’re told Dolan’s distant relationship with Bettman has not isolated him within the NHL, and he indeed commands widespread respect within the Board. A number of NHL Governors either own NBA teams or own and operate arenas in which NBA teams play.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...MnnYTIJebhPr4L

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:51 PM
  #24
RangerBoy
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Quote:
Union and NHL are in communication this aft. Await word on whether PA has agreed to owners mtng with restrictions or if NHL will comply.
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...78156480442370

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:52 PM
  #25
NYRFAN218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Dolan wants in





http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...MnnYTIJebhPr4L

Bettman surrounds himself with his cronies.
I can't even begin to say how eerie it is that we typed the exact same thing and quoted the exact same parts at the same time

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