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Old
12-01-2012, 01:56 PM
  #301
JetsHomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumzan View Post
I hope Chicago gets picked last so Winnipeg can get 1st pick in 2nd round.
I'd much rather have a season than get the 31st pick in the draft.

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12-01-2012, 02:56 PM
  #302
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I hope Chicago gets picked last so Winnipeg can get 1st pick in 2nd round.
what do you mean?

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12-01-2012, 03:04 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
what do you mean?
If there is no season they go to a snake draft format or at least that is my understanding.

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12-01-2012, 03:21 PM
  #304
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If Grinds' numbers be telling, there is much less importance in order of picks in the later rounds...

Obviously looking at it in micro level you have to go with your scouts notes on who is best and therefore hope for an earlier pick so you are more likely to get the guy your scouts think...

It's kinda like throwing at balloons, but blindfolded, and your scouts are someone beside you whispering where the everything is, but they forgot their glasses...

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12-01-2012, 03:49 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
It's kinda like throwing at balloons, but blindfolded, and your scouts are someone beside you whispering where the everything is, but they forgot their glasses...
That analogy actually sums it up pretty well

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12-01-2012, 06:23 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
It's kinda like throwing at balloons, but blindfolded, and your scouts are someone beside you whispering where the everything is, but they forgot their glasses...
That sums up the NY Islanders scouting staff pretty well.

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12-01-2012, 06:32 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
That's the thing. There's essentially no such thing.

A guy taken in the 5th round could likely end up being the best.
I get what you're saying, but if the Jets feel like either Fucale or Comrie is a 'blue-chip' prospect - a kid that will 'likely' (or more likely) develop into a solid starter one day - then i say they should draft him.

Could the best goalie be taken in the 5th round? Sure, sometimes those things work out that way, but if they like a guy - go get him. Vasilevski and Subban look to be what i would call a 'blue-chip' prospect, to me. Will they pan out or will another goalie drafted in the 5th round be better? Who knows, but i say, go get the guy that you feel may have the best chance.

With 3 picks in the 2nd round, i'm hopeful one will be used on a goalie who the Jets feel is bpa, at that point.

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12-01-2012, 06:37 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Don't feel like looking for stats, but I know goalies have a significantly much lower percentages of playing in the NHL and being "impact" in the NHL in the first round than any other positions. Sometimes a goalie does have elite talent and that can't be denied, but as a rule, shy well away from goalies early, IMO, too hard to predict.

I'm against taking a goalie in the first at all, baring a very special case. Fucale or Comrie do not fit that at all, IMO. Neither would rank in my top 30 probably, although it's much too early for me to be posting rankings (I'm no pro scout, I need alot more time than late November). Honestly, I'm not really sold right now that either of those are 1st rounders.

Goalies statistically are alot more unpredictable far harder to predict. Better to throw a bunch of shots in the dark in the 3-7 rounds than to waste a high pick on one, although I am not completely opposed to taking one in the 2nd round, I still tend to shy away from even using a 2nd rounder on one.

Since I really started following the draft in 2006, I'd say only Andrei Vasilevski, Riku Helenius, maybe Jonathan Bernier and maybe maybe Jack Campbell I have ranked in the top 20 overall for goalies.
Ya, I don't think we should take one in the first round either. Early to me was using a 2nd round pick on best goalie available, and maybe getting one of Fucale or Comrie. This draft is much deeper so a player at picks 20-30, may be 'similar' to a player at picks 10-20 in other drafts. i wouldn't take a goalie this year until after 25 or so. But some team, that has no prospects in goal, might.

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12-01-2012, 06:52 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
I get what you're saying, but if the Jets feel like either Fucale or Comrie is a 'blue-chip' prospect - a kid that will 'likely' (or more likely) develop into a solid starter one day - then i say they should draft him.

Could the best goalie be taken in the 5th round? Sure, sometimes those things work out that way, but if they like a guy - go get him. Vasilevski and Subban look to be what i would call a 'blue-chip' prospect, to me. Will they pan out or will another goalie drafted in the 5th round be better? Who knows, but i say, go get the guy that you feel may have the best chance.

With 3 picks in the 2nd round, i'm hopeful one will be used on a goalie who the Jets feel is bpa, at that point.
How about Jack Campbell, is he a blue-chip prospect?

You're using the term too loosely IMO. Blue-chip shouldn't mean "likely" it should mean for all intents and purposes they're a shoe-in as an impact player for an NHL team. There shouldn't be too many blue-chip players.

I'm all for bpa, but I'm still more comfortable when the bpa turns out to be a forward or defenseman in the first two rounds. Especially when this draft is looking to have great depth and isn't that great goaltender-wise IMO.

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12-01-2012, 10:27 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
How about Jack Campbell, is he a blue-chip prospect?

You're using the term too loosely IMO. Blue-chip shouldn't mean "likely" it should mean for all intents and purposes they're a shoe-in as an impact player for an NHL team. There shouldn't be too many blue-chip players.

I'm all for bpa, but I'm still more comfortable when the bpa turns out to be a forward or defenseman in the first two rounds. Especially when this draft is looking to have great depth and isn't that great goaltender-wise IMO.
When Campbell was drafted, i'd argue he was a blue-chip prospect. To say he wasn't at the time of the draft, would be wrong, imo. He was the top goalie in his draft class. Showed very well at the WJC's for the US team, he was 'pegged' as a future #1 starter. Now, maybe not, though he's still very young.

But you take a chance with all draft picks you make. Some work out, some don't. Whether they work out, that's up to many, many things.

For every Jack Campbell's or Brent Krahn's or Trevor Kidd's there's a Carey Price, MA Fleury, Tom Barrasso or Martin Brodeur -key cornerstone players for their teams - also taken in the 1st round.

Our depth in goal is very weak, imo, i'd rather they take a guy in the 2nd round that is rated somewhat highly going into the draft than a taking a flyer on a guy in the 5th round or later. If all you have is flyers, the chances of some of them working out is pretty slim.

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12-01-2012, 11:49 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
If there is no season they go to a snake draft format or at least that is my understanding.
If there is no season, there will be no draft until a CBA is agreed to.

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12-02-2012, 03:05 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Bob E View Post
When Campbell was drafted, i'd argue he was a blue-chip prospect. To say he wasn't at the time of the draft, would be wrong, imo. He was the top goalie in his draft class. Showed very well at the WJC's for the US team, he was 'pegged' as a future #1 starter. Now, maybe not, though he's still very young.

But you take a chance with all draft picks you make. Some work out, some don't. Whether they work out, that's up to many, many things.

For every Jack Campbell's or Brent Krahn's or Trevor Kidd's there's a Carey Price, MA Fleury, Tom Barrasso or Martin Brodeur -key cornerstone players for their teams - also taken in the 1st round.

Our depth in goal is very weak, imo, i'd rather they take a guy in the 2nd round that is rated somewhat highly going into the draft than a taking a flyer on a guy in the 5th round or later. If all you have is flyers, the chances of some of them working out is pretty slim.
That's my point about throwing that term around too loosely. It should take something monumental to stop being a "blue-chip prospect". Blue-chip to me doesn't just mean "very good".

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12-02-2012, 09:00 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by jiho View Post
If there is no season, there will be no draft until a CBA is agreed to.
Now how big do our multiple picks look if we lose 2 seasons and you stack two draft classes up on top of each other.........so we've got that going for us

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12-10-2012, 01:52 PM
  #314
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Between Fucale, Comrie, and Martin, one of them SHOULD be available when we make our first second round pick. I think it would be wise to grab one of these guys with that pick. Preferably Fucale or Comrie.

Is Comrie Canadian or American? Anyone?

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12-10-2012, 02:01 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Between Fucale, Comrie, and Martin, one of them SHOULD be available when we make our first second round pick. I think it would be wise to grab one of these guys with that pick. Preferably Fucale or Comrie.

Is Comrie Canadian or American? Anyone?
American apparently:

http://www.amshockey.com/roster/show/id/8345

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12-10-2012, 02:11 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Between Fucale, Comrie, and Martin, one of them SHOULD be available when we make our first second round pick. I think it would be wise to grab one of these guys with that pick. Preferably Fucale or Comrie.

Is Comrie Canadian or American? Anyone?
Why one of those two?

I've been touting this opinion for a little while now, but I believe Martin is the best of the three.

I also believe that if we swing at a goaltender we should do so in the 3rd and later. Or keep our tradition with grabbing NCAA guys, or *gasp* possibly a European netminder. The fact they get that extra development time, over CHL guys, I believe is key.

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12-10-2012, 02:51 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Between Fucale, Comrie, and Martin, one of them SHOULD be available when we make our first second round pick. I think it would be wise to grab one of these guys with that pick. Preferably Fucale or Comrie.

Is Comrie Canadian or American? Anyone?


Dual citizen. He's the younger brother of Mike Comrie.

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12-10-2012, 04:47 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Why one of those two?

I've been touting this opinion for a little while now, but I believe Martin is the best of the three.

I also believe that if we swing at a goaltender we should do so in the 3rd and later. Or keep our tradition with grabbing NCAA guys, or *gasp* possibly a European netminder. The fact they get that extra development time, over CHL guys, I believe is key.
European goalies do not get "extra development" time over CHL goalies. I believe you are referring to the fact that CHL goalies must be signed in two years versus four years for NCAA. Players out of Europe must be signed within two years as well or all rights are lost.

With the notable exception of Russian players, which due to the lack of transfer agreement, until there is a transfer agreement Russian players have their rights protected indefinitely. But there are many hurdles to overcome there, making it very hard to ever get players out of Russia, unless they come over almost immediately. For example the Kings draft Prokhorkin with the understanding that he would come over immediately...and had him for 8 AHL games only to find he has a valid KHL until 2015. Now the question is will they EVER get him back. You gotta be pretty sure you can get Russians over, in most cases that means really soon, before you draft them.

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12-10-2012, 05:14 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
European goalies do not get "extra development" time over CHL goalies. I believe you are referring to the fact that CHL goalies must be signed in two years versus four years for NCAA. Players out of Europe must be signed within two years as well or all rights are lost.

With the notable exception of Russian players, which due to the lack of transfer agreement, until there is a transfer agreement Russian players have their rights protected indefinitely. But there are many hurdles to overcome there, making it very hard to ever get players out of Russia, unless they come over almost immediately. For example the Kings draft Prokhorkin with the understanding that he would come over immediately...and had him for 8 AHL games only to find he has a valid KHL until 2015. Now the question is will they EVER get him back. You gotta be pretty sure you can get Russians over, in most cases that means really soon, before you draft them.
Hey HC question?

Lord help us that we lose this year and next year.......when things finally get settled does the NHL pool all draft eligible players 2013 and 2014 into 1 monster draft or would they run two separate drafts?

Not that it will come to that but curious as to how that "dilemma" would be tackled?

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12-10-2012, 06:01 PM
  #320
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Hey HC question?

Lord help us that we lose this year and next year.......when things finally get settled does the NHL pool all draft eligible players 2013 and 2014 into 1 monster draft or would they run two separate drafts?

Not that it will come to that but curious as to how that "dilemma" would be tackled?
That is an interesting question. There is nothing specifically mentioning this type of situation in the CBA, nor have I ever heard anything reasonable suggesting what may happen in this case. This would be an issue that would get ironed out in the CBA that was eventually signed, much like the current CBA has many clauses in it effecting only 2005.

If I were to guess, I would take an audible. What I would suggest would be to take the opportunity to raise the draft age to 19. No more late draft years. So, instead of the 13 draft being Sep -Dec 94 + Jan-Aug 95 borns and the 14 draft being Sep - Dec 95 + Jan - Aug 96, make the 14 draft Sep- Dec 94 (just for this year to catch up) + Jan - Dec 95 borns. Then the 15 draft would be 96 borns, etc. So the 13 draft wouldn't exist, but would get folded into the 14 draft + late birthdays of the original 14 draft. Normal 14 draft players (Jan-Aug 96) would be moved to 15 draft.

The players are more developed, better idea of how they will develop, at the expense of 1-3 players a year not being able to play at 18 (remember a lot of the "18 year olds" that play the year after they are drafted are actually in their 19 year old year, ie Doughty, Hall, Burmistrov, etc). I'm not neccessarily an advocate of raising the draft year, but given that opportunity I would take it.

All this is basically moot though, IMO. I believe that if we do not have an agreement by next Sep/Oct the league will declare an impasse, upon which they can then force their last offer. Or something like that, lots of court battles to follow, but plenty of players would cross almost immediately probably. Can't remember the details, but there is no way the league would lose any games of a second year, IMO. I still highly highly doubt that there is no season this year, we will be playing hockey by Mid-January, IMO.

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12-10-2012, 07:23 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
European goalies do not get "extra development" time over CHL goalies. I believe you are referring to the fact that CHL goalies must be signed in two years versus four years for NCAA. Players out of Europe must be signed within two years as well or all rights are lost.

With the notable exception of Russian players, which due to the lack of transfer agreement, until there is a transfer agreement Russian players have their rights protected indefinitely. But there are many hurdles to overcome there, making it very hard to ever get players out of Russia, unless they come over almost immediately. For example the Kings draft Prokhorkin with the understanding that he would come over immediately...and had him for 8 AHL games only to find he has a valid KHL until 2015. Now the question is will they EVER get him back. You gotta be pretty sure you can get Russians over, in most cases that means really soon, before you draft them.
Can you not sign a European goalie and still have him play in Europe? For some reason I was under the impression you could.

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12-10-2012, 07:49 PM
  #322
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Can you not sign a European goalie and still have him play in Europe? For some reason I was under the impression you could.
Yes you can. But that would require signing him, and burning years off of his ELC, absolutely no different then being in the AHL/ECHL. Actually you have more control of players in AHL/ECHL, so it would be more of negative than anything. I don't understand how that gives more time versus CHL goalies. Hell you can loan a Canadian out to an European team as well, if you should want...


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 12-10-2012 at 08:16 PM.
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12-10-2012, 09:58 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Why one of those two?

I've been touting this opinion for a little while now, but I believe Martin is the best of the three.

I also believe that if we swing at a goaltender we should do so in the 3rd and later. Or keep our tradition with grabbing NCAA guys, or *gasp* possibly a European netminder. The fact they get that extra development time, over CHL guys, I believe is key.
Waiting til the 3rd round would be a mistake IMO. We have 3 second round picks. Unless for some reason there is still a high end forward/defense left on the table, go for the good goalie as early as you can in the second. Then get back to sifting for forwards/defense. Unless we trade some of those 2nd/3rd round picks in the first for an additional (hopefully) top 15 overall pick. In that case I'd be fine with waiting til later to go for a goalie.

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12-11-2012, 12:15 AM
  #324
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Nice article on Spencer Martin.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/jrh...190541331.html

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12-11-2012, 05:22 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Daddy Longlegs View Post
Waiting til the 3rd round would be a mistake IMO. We have 3 second round picks. Unless for some reason there is still a high end forward/defense left on the table, go for the good goalie as early as you can in the second. Then get back to sifting for forwards/defense. Unless we trade some of those 2nd/3rd round picks in the first for an additional (hopefully) top 15 overall pick. In that case I'd be fine with waiting til later to go for a goalie.
It's a deep draft though and there likely will be good forwards and defenseman left, that's why I think it's smarter to hold off on grabbing a tender.

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