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Old
12-01-2012, 02:17 PM
  #51
blinkman360
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The value is actually pretty solid, but for New Jersey it's weakening their team.

Especially with Zajac set to become a UFA at the end of the year, the Devils can in no way afford to deal Henrique without getting a top-six center back in return.

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Old
12-01-2012, 02:44 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Leafs need a young top six centre, Devils need a young puck moving power play QB. Doesn't seem completely unreasonable.
Kovalchuk is one of the best PP specialist that plays the point.He takes 95% of their PP time. Zidlicky is a quite capable puck-mover, hope he gets re-signed btw, Tallinder is not mediocre, Gelinas is expected to be a very good one and Larsson even more. Merril is also in the pipelines.
If you take a look at their line-up, their depth at forward is not adequate at all on the other hand. They need 2 forward and will probably make a trade to get at least a top 6 winger

To trade forward for defence-man makes absolutely no sense for the Devils.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:05 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
That top 4 on D is scaring nobody.
That top 4 made it to the SCF... The Devils haven't had a true number 1 Dman for quite some time yet they get the job done. Our forward depth without Henrique is laughable...

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:14 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
That top 4 on D is scaring nobody.
It never did, but it always gets the job done. I can't complain.

Look at the numbers of the Florida's, Philly's, and NYR's top offensive lines at even strength against the Devils last year. Greene-Fayne primarily played against them. Devils beat writer posted it way back, but I believe Fleischmann, Versteeg, Weiss, Giroux, Jagr, Hartnell, Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik, were all held to 2 points or less at even strength.

Actually, it's probably more like:

Greene-Fayne
Salvador-Zidlicky
Tallinder-Larsson

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:20 PM
  #55
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The Devils run 3 second pairs without a true number 1 with Tallinder manning most of the heavy tough minutes as the default #2 (Although he is a #3). Either pair is capable of 20+ minutes.

On topic though, as many have said, value is there but there is no reasonable scenario where the Devils will trade two offensive pieces for defensive pieces unless overpayment.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Who cares if you're scared or not? It was good enough for the Cup Finals.

As for Henrique, here's the list of +50 point rookie centers since the lockout:

Sidney Crosby
Evgeni Malkin
Anze Kopitar
Nicklas Backstrom
Jonathan Toews
John Tavares
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Paul Stastny
Logan Couture
Jeff Skinner
Adam Henrique
Peter Mueller
Matt Duchene


What a bunch of dime-a-dozen scrubs.
Drew Doughty had 27 points as a rookie. Gardiner 30. Doesn't menan anything. Just like it doesn't mean anything that Crosby had 100+ points as a rookie and Adam 50+. It's totally irrelevant.

Adam had 51 points which is very very good. He's a very good player. But those 50 points put him in the same balkpark as Grabovsky.

It's simply not good value to trade a young dman like Gardiner for a 50-60 point center.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:28 PM
  #57
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So you're saying grabo and henrique have same value

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:28 PM
  #58
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Gardiner for Henrique is a fair value. Whether you can afford to give him up or want to, is a different story. Similarly, the Devils don't want or need Gardiner right now, especially at the expense of Henrique. However, to say that the value isn't close, isn't at all true.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 12-01-2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: no ftfy posts
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Old
12-01-2012, 03:30 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Actually a pretty good top 4 IMO, plus Larsson will join it next season and make it even better. Just cause it doesnt have any big, overrated players in it doesnt mean its not effective
Not overrated, just no star player. It's a good group of players very good depth and the star will be Larsson when developed. Kinda the opposite of Nashville's top 2 and then fizzles out for the rest.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:55 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Henrique is a small center. Leafs have Bozak, Grabovsky, Connolly etc. etc. They are a dime a dozen.

Gardnier is one of the best skating D in the legue.

Kadri is a better prospect than Matteau.

6'0 200lbs is more than enough to be a hard-nosed center. It's not about the size, it's how you use it. Henrique plays a way more physical game than Bozak or Grabo.






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Old
12-01-2012, 04:26 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
That top 4 on D is scaring nobody.
5 months ago it nearly won the Stanley Cup....

and no thanks. not trading henrique.

the Devils need forwards, not DMen

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Old
12-01-2012, 05:14 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Drew Doughty had 27 points as a rookie. Gardiner 30. Doesn't menan anything. Just like it doesn't mean anything that Crosby had 100+ points as a rookie and Adam 50+. It's totally irrelevant.
He wasn't arguing that a player is only good if he's had more than 50 points as a rookie - he was arguing that the few rookies who got more than 50 points turn out to be excellent players in the long-haul. It's totally relevant.

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Old
12-01-2012, 05:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Lol na.. teams value their players a lot more than the return. Basically going to be the census imo.
What do you think of JVR+ for Larsson NJD fans?
Leafs fan saying the Devils probably wouldn't do JVR + Rielly for Larsson.

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Old
12-01-2012, 05:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Yashintangibles View Post
6'0 200lbs is more than enough to be a hard-nosed center. It's not about the size, it's how you use it. Henrique plays a way more physical game than Bozak or Grabo.
I guess 200 sounds better than 195. Bozak is listed at 6-1 195 as well.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8475098

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:10 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
I guess 200 sounds better than 195. Bozak is listed at 6-1 195 as well.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8475098
Nice reading comprehension.

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:24 PM
  #66
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yea leafs dont touch this with a 10ft pole...

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Old
12-01-2012, 07:01 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Yashintangibles View Post
Nice reading comprehension.
Henrique had 83 hits. Bozak 117. I've seen them both play neither is what you call physical. Bozak like Henrique can handle the physicalness of the NHL.

Yeah -- I read it -- but it wasn't accurate and still isn't.

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Old
12-01-2012, 07:03 PM
  #68
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Safe to say both of the franchise refuses this. I know as a leaf fan I'd refuse as well.

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12-01-2012, 07:26 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Henrique had 83 hits. Bozak 117. I've seen them both play neither is what you call physical. Bozak like Henrique can handle the physicalness of the NHL.

Yeah -- I read it -- but it wasn't accurate and still isn't.
Look, you are right, this is not their game.

But Henrique might turn very physical when he needs to be and he just did it all along the season. Same with Kovalchuk within the specific contexts. Neither IK nor AH rely on their physical game but I swear the opposition is well aware of their physical edge.

And real-time stats suck. Especially when you know how they count hits in the Prudential center.

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Old
12-01-2012, 07:43 PM
  #70
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Trade Gardiner for Franson and maybe we have a deal.

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Old
12-01-2012, 08:25 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by jiggy35 View Post
Trade Gardiner for Franson and maybe we have a deal.
The Devils dont say yes with Gardiner, so then you give us a worse player and expect them to magically say yes now ?

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Old
12-01-2012, 10:04 PM
  #72
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Henrique is probably the most immovable asset the Devils have right now.

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:10 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Henrique is a small center. Leafs have Bozak, Grabovsky, Connolly etc. etc. They are a dime a dozen.

Gardnier is one of the best skating D in the legue.

Kadri is a better prospect than Matteau.
Oh wow, this is almost entirely false. Henrique plays with plenty of grit. 50 point rookie centres who come close to winning the Calder against the top two picks in the previous draft are not dime a dozen. There are solid indications that he is nowhere near the top of his development curve yet. The Devils are not likely to move him.

Gardiner is a good player, but calling him "one of the best skating d in the league" is overstating it.

I keep hearing that Kadri is on the cusp of breaking through, and then he doesn't. Matteau, on the other hand, looks to be on track to achieve what we expect of him. Right now I'd rather have Matteau in the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
That top 4 on D is scaring nobody.
I will remind you that that top 4 just made it to the Cup Final, and that was without Tallinder too. Devils fans are perfectly fine with having three second pairings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Henrique had 83 hits. Bozak 117. I've seen them both play neither is what you call physical. Bozak like Henrique can handle the physicalness of the NHL.

Yeah -- I read it -- but it wasn't accurate and still isn't.
This is a strange way to argue. Hits are not necessarily an accurate measure of physicality, and every arena counts hits differently.

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:25 PM
  #74
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The value is close. I think Toronto is winning this one though.

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Old
12-02-2012, 01:15 AM
  #75
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Did someone really say a player like Henrique, a calder finalist, is a dime a dozen and then compare him to Tyler Bozak?

Lockout has clearly brought out some delusional posters.

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