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Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:23 PM
  #951
Silver
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The Decertification ploy really stands in the face of the NHLPA stance that "we're doing this for our future hockey brethren"
They have to at some point if the owners keep grinding them on revenue. Otherwise we all know the script that's going to happen in 5-7 years: No matter what the conditions are, the owners will need more, and it's for the good of the game. You understand that Katz is now losing all those home games in his new rink, and those are worth so much more than they were last lockout...

It's a very dangerous game of chicken, and I don't think that the majority of the players or the owners realize they are getting ready to unwrap Pandora's box. No hope at the bottom of this one for an Oiler fan though, unless you're on those fantastic drugs that a recent poster in this thread seems to be getting via IV...

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11-30-2012, 04:26 PM
  #952
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I have gotten used to watching OKC online, so I'm not totally suicidal about losing the whole season. One possible bad outcome to cancelling the whole season is the likely draft lottery not being very good for the Oil.

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11-30-2012, 04:29 PM
  #953
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One possible bad outcome to cancelling the whole season is the likely draft lottery not being very good for the Oil.
I have a hard time, after the last 3 years, complaining about that without looking up over my shoulder for the guillotine blade.

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11-30-2012, 04:37 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Silver View Post
I have a hard time, after the last 3 years, complaining about that without looking up over my shoulder for the guillotine blade.
I guess that I would like to make the playoffs before we get relegated to picking in the second half of the round. This looks like a deep draft, and it would be nice to pick around 15th and not 25th or lower.

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11-30-2012, 05:10 PM
  #955
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essentially it does, some teams would just say "its not worth it, we just lost 200 million"
How would teams lose 200 million?

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11-30-2012, 05:15 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Gus Schmidt View Post
I guess that I would like to make the playoffs before we get relegated to picking in the second half of the round. This looks like a deep draft, and it would be nice to pick around 15th and not 25th or lower.
It would be a snake draft so while it would be disappointing to pick in the bottom half of the first round, it wouldnt be the end of the world.

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11-30-2012, 05:46 PM
  #957
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Spector's Hockey ‏@SpectorsHockey
#NHLPA also wouldn't be keen on contraction.Fewer teams means fewer opportunities for players to make it to the #NHL.
LOL @ the players. What an incredibly stupid, ignorant group. It's in their best interest to sign a deal and sign one fast but they keep kicking and screaming.

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11-30-2012, 05:52 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
LOL @ the players. What an incredibly stupid, ignorant group. It's in their best interest to sign a deal and sign one fast but they keep kicking and screaming.
They're a union. It's hard for them to look beyond the walls that they have put up around themselves.

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11-30-2012, 06:26 PM
  #959
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The NHL will get an answer from the pa tonight or tomorrow morning with regards to the proposed players owners only meeting, unless some how this meeting is effective there won't be many options left disclaimer of interest or decertification could be near future moves although i think the players owners only meeting could be interesting depending on which players and which owners are meeting obviously

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11-30-2012, 09:52 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Gus Schmidt View Post
I guess that I would like to make the playoffs before we get relegated to picking in the second half of the round. This looks like a deep draft, and it would be nice to pick around 15th and not 25th or lower.
exactly... we likely finish around 20th-25th overall if this season was played normally, thus picking 5th-10th overall or so... but if (when) the season is cancelled, we'll likely end up picking 15th or worse, due to the number of lottery balls we'll end up with

very few teams are likely to be screwed over from the draft as badly as we will be

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11-30-2012, 09:54 PM
  #961
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They're a union. It's hard for them to look beyond the walls that they have put up around themselves.
this is a terrible generalization.... unions give up a LOT all the time... if you aren't aware of this, then you haven't been paying attention to labour negotiations in north american for the past decade, and therefore likely shouldn't make comments about unions

i'm not really even a pro-union person, but they DO give up stuff all the time when they are either forced to, or the company they work for is in financial trouble

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12-01-2012, 07:39 AM
  #962
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this is a terrible generalization.... unions give up a LOT all the time... if you aren't aware of this, then you haven't been paying attention to labour negotiations in north american for the past decade, and therefore likely shouldn't make comments about unions

i'm not really even a pro-union person, but they DO give up stuff all the time when they are either forced to, or the company they work for is in financial trouble
They also act as an echo-chamber for bad ideas, degrade the logic of the process by fiercly backing their own group-think against sound external arguments and enjoy the fraudulent sensation that they are in the moral right because a good number of people and media will always back the union over the corporation.

Perhaps it was the full summer of being woken up by annoying, chanting nurses outside my window - but **** 'em.

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12-01-2012, 10:11 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
They also act as an echo-chamber for bad ideas, degrade the logic of the process by fiercly backing their own group-think against sound external arguments and enjoy the fraudulent sensation that they are in the moral right because a good number of people and media will always back the union over the corporation.

Perhaps it was the full summer of being woken up by annoying, chanting nurses outside my window - but **** 'em.
oh yeah, unions have lots of problems, no doubt.... but so does the private sector... no system is perfect, and that's probably the biggest understatement i'll write today, lol

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12-01-2012, 11:23 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
I'm not even mad at the thought of a full year lockout.


The thought of one less year of watching Shawn Horcoff makes me happy.
i'm at the point now where i am just finding many other things to do. the Oilers long ago priced me out of the seats at Rectal, and the only thing i have missed a bit is all the games on TV, but i'll live. anyone else find the coverage of junior hockey and AHL on TV by the big networks underwhelming?

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12-01-2012, 11:29 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
They're a union. It's hard for them to look beyond the walls that they have put up around themselves.
It's not like they're a brown bagging lunch, hard hat wearing, elbow grease applying, working outside in -35 type of union here.

Get a grip guys.
Do you think it's too late for the NHL to get each and every players mother give them a call to give them a reality check? Fly them out to slap each and every one upside the head ?


One thing I'm grateful for is the amount of BPL being shown on sportsnet. I just wish they didn't have such a love in for "the big 4"

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12-01-2012, 11:34 AM
  #966
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"the big 4"....i hear you!

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:36 AM
  #967
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West Brom are, i think as of this morning, 5th in the table. Do you think they'll get a game shown unless they're playing ManU, ManC, Chelsea or Arsenal anytime soon?

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:04 PM
  #968
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The mediation process was bs. It was just a case of the nhlpa checking a box in order to file for decertification. The season is done.
Fehr and the players have given fans the bird.

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Old
12-01-2012, 05:20 PM
  #969
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Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Well, they had their say in 2006 when they came back. Now it is assumed we will do the same. It is a shame, I think the NHLPA in particular is really taking that for granted.

I agree though, I rally hope there is a drop in ticket sales and revenue. A considerable drop is the only way to assure this will never happen again.
That's because last time the owners had a plan and made it clear to everyone that once there is a cap there will be no more issues. Fans for the most part bought it, but this time they will be in for quite the awakening.
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Not gonna make any predictions, but I believe December is going to be a CRITICAL month. Whatever happens in December will ultimately decide the fate of the season IMO. Players are slated to lose their 5th and 6th paycheque so I'm assuming players are going to get desparate and start joining the Hamrlik/Neuvirth camp of disgruntled players.

I think once the "drop-dead" date has been established, desperation will set in on both sides.
Not sure why, but I keep hearing that the owners want a 48 game schedule. Seems as if they could get the deal done today, but they want a 48 game schedule and will just push this until then.

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12-01-2012, 05:50 PM
  #970
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@aaronward_nhl: "The NHLPA Executive Board has authorized a $10,000 stipend to all players. #TSN"

so the pa' is giving all their players $10,000 if i understood this correctly.
$10,000x700+ players= $7 million+
Some players must really be running low lol

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12-01-2012, 06:04 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by 402 View Post
@aaronward_nhl: "The NHLPA Executive Board has authorized a $10,000 stipend to all players. #TSN"

so the pa' is giving all their players $10,000 if i understood this correctly.
$10,000x700+ players= $7 million+
Some players must really be running low lol
really? do the players *really* need this? i find it very hard to believe there are more than a handful of players that actually need the money to pay the bills.... what's weird, is this doesn't look good in the public eye either... $10,000 is 20% of what a lot of people make in a year, this will only remind these people that the players live in a completely different world than they do

i just don't understand why they would do this, doesn't make any sense at all

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12-01-2012, 06:25 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
really? do the players *really* need this? i find it very hard to believe there are more than a handful of players that actually need the money to pay the bills.... what's weird, is this doesn't look good in the public eye either... $10,000 is 20% of what a lot of people make in a year, this will only remind these people that the players live in a completely different world than they do

i just don't understand why they would do this, doesn't make any sense at all
Maybe this was something that they had planned before.

Either that or a few need money, but if you give a few then everyone wants it.

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12-01-2012, 06:26 PM
  #973
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I'd like to see the 30 owners sit down with the ~30 team player reps and face to face decide amongst themselves just what the bottom line is for both sides.

Basically remove the egotistical mouth pieces from each side (Bettman and Fehr)... and have the parties who are actually affected by the lockout decide what their respective bottom lines are. Is 50-50 really the absolute most the owners will give up? Would they be willing to do something like 54-53-52-51-50-50 over say 6 years for the players.... so it gradually declines to the magic 50-50 level? Would the players accept that as well?

I really don't think the actual parties that have the most to lose/gain in all this (players/owners) are that far apart. I assume they all have a love of hockey and my sappy, sentimental side still has this stupid belief that they can still come to a reasonable compromise and get a deal done to insure the game isn't irreparably damaged (more than it has been already).

Of course I might be all wrong and Bettman and Fehr might just be better compromisers/negotiators than the players/owners themselves... and if that's the case then we are truly screwed and we may not see NHL hockey for years (at least not in its present format).


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 12-01-2012 at 07:46 PM.
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12-01-2012, 06:46 PM
  #974
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How hilarious, yet sad, that something as simple as a meeting between players and owners takes 2 days of negotiation.

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12-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
really? do the players *really* need this? i find it very hard to believe there are more than a handful of players that actually need the money to pay the bills.... what's weird, is this doesn't look good in the public eye either... $10,000 is 20% of what a lot of people make in a year, this will only remind these people that the players live in a completely different world than they do

i just don't understand why they would do this, doesn't make any sense at all
Maybe it was done to emphasize the unions commitment to "winning" like saying there's more Where that came from if the lockout continues through the year. that's the only explanation i have anyway, its a laughable and stupid move imo at this point in the lockout i mean are there really any players in desperate need of money

Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I'd like to see the 30 owners sit down with the ~30 team player reps and face to face decide amongst themselves just what the bottom line is for both sides.

Basically remove the egotistical mouth pieces from each side (Bettman and Fehr)... and have the parties who are actually affected by the lockout decide what their respective bottom lines are. Is 50-50 really the absolute most the owners will give up? Would they be willing to do something like 54-53-52-51-50-50 over say 6 years for the players.... so it gradually declines to the magic 50-50 level? Would the players accept that as well?

I really don't think the actual parties that have the most to lose/gain in all this (players/owners) are that far apart. I assume they all have a love of hockey and my sappy, sentimental side still has this stupid belief that they can still come to a reasonable compromise and get a deal done to insure the game isn't irreparably damaged (more than it has been already).
What bettman has proposed is similar to this a players/owners meeting taking away the leaders (and their egos) the pa is considering the offer and should respond by tonight or tomorrow however the meeting would not have all owners present rather there would a select few maybe five or so along with a bunch of players

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