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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part IX)

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:24 AM
  #951
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Luongo's wife reportedly complained about having to visit him in "cold" Vancouver and will no longer visit him there. He is obviously only stating he wouldn't stand in the way of trades to spots other than Florida because he is contractually bound to report elsewhere regardless - or he doesn't get paid. He wouldn't be happy in Winnipeg though because it represents a place his wife wouldn't even deem worthy of a visit.
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
If some of you are so eager to be rid of Pavelec then Cory Schneider probably represents a more realistic option. He has additionally played in this market and would probably relish the opportunity to be the starter here. Talent-wise it is also likely a lateral move between Schnieder and Pavelec though Pavs certainly has the edge in starts/experience. There is also a huge risk in going with an unproven guy though as your starter; see the Leafs last year as an example of that.
I think most of us understand that Schneider is in Vancouver for the long haul.

The reason this discussion is taking place is that many of us do not have confidence in Pavs as a top-tier NHL goaltender. This will be his 6th season in the NHL and he has not consistently put up the numbers to support a comparison to Schneider or any top-tier NHL goalie. He is athletic, flashy and personable, but that does not make for NHL success.
I am content to give him a chance to prove himself this year (should there be one)--after all, what choice do we have-- but he doesn't have much longer than that, in my books.
The goalie thing is a bit like the QB thing in CFL football. You can't win without a really good one, but how the hell do you find one?
I'd be interested in others' opinions and approaches to this 'problem' IF (and it's only an if) Pav does not produce in this, his 6th NHL season.

As for Luongo, I think we should fly him here and give his high-maintenance wife a tour of our own little Miami. That'll convince her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami,_Manitoba

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12-01-2012, 11:37 AM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Luongo's wife reportedly complained about having to visit him in "cold" Vancouver and will no longer visit him there. He is obviously only stating he wouldn't stand in the way of trades to spots other than Florida because he is contractually bound to report elsewhere regardless - or he doesn't get paid. He wouldn't be happy in Winnipeg though because it represents a place his wife wouldn't even deem worthy of a visit. Jets management have said that they only want players that want to be here; I'm guessing Luongo is about the last player they'd seek to acquire.
I hadn't heard this about his old lady. But if it was something that he was truly concerned about then Chicago and Toronto wouldn't be on his alleged list, that may or may not exist.

As I have said, I doubt that Luongo is moved here, but I'd be shocked if Chevy didn't call. Probably about both goalies.

Schneider is a by far better goalie then Pavelec is, and has post superior numbers in clutch situations.

Takin this into account, the askin price for Schneids is probably E. Kane or Blake Wheeler...and we can't really afford to give those away.

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12-01-2012, 11:38 AM
  #953
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I think most of us understand that Schneider is in Vancouver for the long haul.

The reason this discussion is taking place is that many of us do not have confidence in Pavs as a top-tier NHL goaltender. This will be his 6th season in the NHL and he has not consistently put up the numbers to support a comparison to Schneider or any top-tier NHL goalie. He is athletic, flashy and personable, but that does not make for NHL success.
I am content to give him a chance to prove himself this year (should there be one)--after all, what choice do we have-- but he doesn't have much longer than that, in my books.
The goalie thing is a bit like the QB thing in CFL football. You can't win without a really good one, but how the hell do you find one?
I'd be interested in others' opinions and approaches to this 'problem' IF (and it's only an if) Pav does not produce in this, his 6th NHL season.

As for Luongo, I think we should fly him here and give his high-maintenance wife a tour of our own little Miami. That'll convince her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami,_Manitoba
I absolutely agree with this.

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12-01-2012, 11:39 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
The reason this discussion is taking place is that many of us do not have confidence in Pavs as a top-tier NHL goaltender.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.

I'm pretty much ambivalent toward Pavelec. Roberto Luongo though represents a player that likely wouldn't even consider playing here at this point in his career, let alone be happy here. It is easier to take these sorts of discussions seriously when reasonable alternatives are offered - versus pipe dreams.

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12-01-2012, 11:42 AM
  #955
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Personally, I really hope Montoya bounces back to the form he was displaying before his concussion last year - if he does, he could really push Pavs to step up his game. Nothing like another young goalie playing well to force someone to take that next step.

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12-01-2012, 11:45 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Thank you, Captain Obvious.

I'm pretty much ambivalent toward Pavelec. Roberto Luongo though represents a player that likely wouldn't even consider playing here at this point in his career, let alone be happy here. It is easier to take these sorts of discussions seriously when reasonable alternatives are offered - versus pipe dreams.
If he's considering playing in Toronto of all places, it's inconceivable that he may consider playing here,

As for other options, who else is there? I'd be interested in making moves for Bernier, but that could land us in the same boat. Neuvrith may be on the move, and he is promising. Other then that, there is the free agency crop, but it's not like that is overly impressive either.

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12-01-2012, 11:48 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
If he's considering playing in Toronto of all places, it's inconceivable that he may consider playing here,

As for other options, who else is there? I'd be interested in making moves for Bernier, but that could land us in the same boat. Neuvrith may be on the move, and he is promising. Other then that, there is the free agency crop, but it's not like that is overly impressive either.
An old axiom probably applies here; go with the devil you know versus the one you don't. You stick with Pavelec for now and see how it plays out.

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12-01-2012, 12:36 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I think most of us understand that Schneider is in Vancouver for the long haul.

The reason this discussion is taking place is that many of us do not have confidence in Pavs as a top-tier NHL goaltender. This will be his 6th season in the NHL and he has not consistently put up the numbers to support a comparison to Schneider or any top-tier NHL goalie. He is athletic, flashy and personable, but that does not make for NHL success.
I am content to give him a chance to prove himself this year (should there be one)--after all, what choice do we have-- but he doesn't have much longer than that, in my books.
The goalie thing is a bit like the QB thing in CFL football. You can't win without a really good one, but how the hell do you find one?
I'd be interested in others' opinions and approaches to this 'problem' IF (and it's only an if) Pav does not produce in this, his 6th NHL season.

As for Luongo, I think we should fly him here and give his high-maintenance wife a tour of our own little Miami. That'll convince her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami,_Manitoba
Are you really going to count his 7 and 12 games stints as full seasons? I think you're trying to portray an image to match your argument, that simply isn't true. Context! I see this season as his 4th full season in the NHL.

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12-01-2012, 01:23 PM
  #959
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Usually I am unhappy when a player does not want to come to Winnipeg. In Luongo's case I am friggin over the moon.

Some here are saying he is a class act, quality, that he is a character guy.

I 100% disagree with this. We are talking about a guy who gets mad because the other goalie in the STANLEY CUP FINAL doesn't pump up his tires. We are talking about a guy who whines and complains to the refs nonstop, who dives just like the rest of his embarassing teammates whenever he is touched. A guy who does not bring it when he is needed most.

Sure, you can't BLAME Luongo that the Canucks didn't win the cup, but you certainly cannot say he did all he could. Tim Thomas did and that is why the Bruins won.

That guy is far from character and I am so happy that he will NEVER be a Winnipeg Jet. Yes, Pavelec isn't perfect but I am not willing to give up on him yet. He is still young in goalie years. What I am worried about is having a Pavs/ Montoya tandem. I'd much rather have a real solid mature guy in the mix.

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12-01-2012, 01:35 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Thank you, Captain Obvious.

I'm pretty much ambivalent toward Pavelec. Roberto Luongo though represents a player that likely wouldn't even consider playing here at this point in his career, let alone be happy here. It is easier to take these sorts of discussions seriously when reasonable alternatives are offered - versus pipe dreams.
Of course you do realize that NHL jobs are extremely competitive, and players don't just call up the teams and cities they want to play in and automatically walk into a job.

FWIW, I would take Luongo here for a couple of years. Seems a pretty tidy keeper all in all. Bit of a whipping boy, but that's just herd mentality at work.

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12-01-2012, 01:38 PM
  #961
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Usually I am unhappy when a player does not want to come to Winnipeg. In Luongo's case I am friggin over the moon.

Some here are saying he is a class act, quality, that he is a character guy.

I 100% disagree with this. We are talking about a guy who gets mad because the other goalie in the STANLEY CUP FINAL doesn't pump up his tires. We are talking about a guy who whines and complains to the refs nonstop, who dives just like the rest of his embarassing teammates whenever he is touched. A guy who does not bring it when he is needed most.

Sure, you can't BLAME Luongo that the Canucks didn't win the cup, but you certainly cannot say he did all he could. Tim Thomas did and that is why the Bruins won.

That guy is far from character and I am so happy that he will NEVER be a Winnipeg Jet. Yes, Pavelec isn't perfect but I am not willing to give up on him yet. He is still young in goalie years. What I am worried about is having a Pavs/ Montoya tandem. I'd much rather have a real solid mature guy in the mix.
I hate Luongo. I mean freaking hate the guy's guts. Character and class for me are really hard to evaluate for outsiders, which in all honestly why I do not put much faith in other people talking about those aspects. Same with locker room chemistry/popularity and leadership. These are things we can't know. But based on Luongo's on ice demeanour and off ice visible things, yeah ****ing hate the guy. But Luongo is a legitmate star talent, easily a top 5 goalie in the NHL, and not exactly old either. His ability at the playing the game of hockey is quite impressive, all other things thrown aside. And I believe that a decently strong rest of the locker room can overcome a few bad personalities, you cannot protect your classy little babies from all the big bad selfish people, you need all types of personalities and skillsets on a hockey team, IMO.

The thing is, unlike what Bunk says, I do not believe we have all the time in world and we should be thinking only about what's a few years down the road. We cannot afford too.

Looks at the history of Cup Winning teams. Look at their progression. As the come out of their rebuilds, they spend one or more often zero years in the 9-11 range(conference standings), before being a first round fodder team, then usually a 2/3 round team, before Stanley Cup! Look at what the Jets have done. Two years out at the have stayed in the 9-11 ranger for THREE YEARS already. That is mighty mighty HUGELY concerning. You get stuck here you will never never develop a Stanley Cup team. We need to start making steps. You can't only think about 3 years down the road, you need to start taking steps now. An elite goalie will help that hugely. It's something we could really use. You don't sell the farm for one, but if he could have come cheap, you do it. We cannot expect to spend another 9-11 years in the 8-14 range, then magically come out of that ready to compete for a SC. It DOESN'T work that like. Unless the first steps happen, the later ones will not. A goalie like Luongo still has 4-6 years left in him, easily within the Jets window of becoming a Stanley Cup contender, but ONLY if the first steps happen now, which a goalie like Luongo can really make happen.


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12-01-2012, 02:16 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
Usually I am unhappy when a player does not want to come to Winnipeg. In Luongo's case I am friggin over the moon.

Some here are saying he is a class act, quality, that he is a character guy.

I 100% disagree with this. We are talking about a guy who gets mad because the other goalie in the STANLEY CUP FINAL doesn't pump up his tires. We are talking about a guy who whines and complains to the refs nonstop, who dives just like the rest of his embarassing teammates whenever he is touched. A guy who does not bring it when he is needed most.

Sure, you can't BLAME Luongo that the Canucks didn't win the cup, but you certainly cannot say he did all he could. Tim Thomas did and that is why the Bruins won.

That guy is far from character and I am so happy that he will NEVER be a Winnipeg Jet. Yes, Pavelec isn't perfect but I am not willing to give up on him yet. He is still young in goalie years. What I am worried about is having a Pavs/ Montoya tandem. I'd much rather have a real solid mature guy in the mix.
Well...that's just...like...your opinion man. So...like...whatever.


In all seriousness...how the hell does Luongo dive? I know there is a stereotype that the Canucks are a pack of divers, abc that's another statement that I don't get.

You cannot honestly hold Luongo to a standard of good sportsmanship that Thomas has set. This is the guy that charges off the ice when he lets a winning goal in and the guy that let his own personal feelings get in the way of a team celebration.

Also "pumping his tires" was Thomas's expression, not Lu's. In most hockey interviews, you usually comment on how the other team has been playing.

As for not doing all he could, you do recognize that he shut out that Boston team twice. The rest of the team hung the guy out to dry. Last I checked Hockey is a team game.

I've seen goalies like Brodeur, Thomas, Roy so on and so forth complain to the ref about interference way more then Luongo.

The guy has backdropped the team to two, back to back, presidents trophies. Granted its not a cup, but having the best record in the league is nothing to sneeze at either. I'm not sure how much you watch the Canucks on a regular basis, Luongo stole alot if games for them, and outside of Keith Ballard was the best part of that playoff team this year.

But you were an oilers fan before a jets fan, so your irrational hate is understood.

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12-01-2012, 02:20 PM
  #963
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In all seriousness...how the hell does Luongo dive? I know there is a stereotype that the Canucks are a pack of divers, abc that's another statement that I don't get.
Really? I mean...really? Luongo is by far and away the worst diving goalie in the NHL, even all the canuck and ex-canuck fans I know readily admit that. At least one of my canuck friends claims he did it to adapt to a late playoff run and that Jon Quick would quickly emulate him, which of course, did not happen at all. Luongo flops, plain and simple. Can't get anywhere close to him before he drops.

And I don't believe the Canucks are all divers. Just Luongo, Kesler, Lapierre. The rest are fine, those 3 are completely over the top and ridiculous.

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12-01-2012, 02:20 PM
  #964
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I like Luongo. But I don't want him at 42 with a 5.3 cap hit.

I'm not willing to throw Pavs under the bus due to ten bad games in Europe in a league he wasn't used to on ice he hasnt played on in years.

Pavs is young and inconsistent. He steals games but he also has games where he lets on softies. I think most of his bad games seemed to be at the end of the year when he was playing too much.

Hopefully Montoya can take some pressure off of him, and he can find his consistency.

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12-01-2012, 02:21 PM
  #965
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I like Luongo. But I don't want him at 42 with a 5.3 cap hit.

I'm not willing to throw Pavs under the bus due to ten bad games in Europe in a league he wasn't used to on ice he hasty played on in years.

Pavs is young and inconsistent. He steals games but he also has games where he lets on softies. I think most of his bad games seemed to be at the end of the year when he was playing too much.

Hopefully Montoya can take some pressure off of him, and he can find his consistency.
It's incredibly unlikely he will keep playing for less than a million a season at 42 years old. The deal is set up for him to retire at 38/39. And with the way the new CBA is talking about grandfathering those contracts in, it would mean that the Canucks would be forced to take those remaining 3-4 years at the 5.3 cap hit

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12-01-2012, 02:30 PM
  #966
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I guess my only real coal in this fire is that I do have confidence in Pavs. I believe he is on the upswing of his career; he showed the ability to steal games and he is only 25.

The Luongo to Winnipeg topic is a very unrealistic one IMO and will never happen. Only have to wonder why this is even a topic is because we are bored.

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12-01-2012, 03:26 PM
  #967
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Really? I mean...really? Luongo is by far and away the worst diving goalie in the NHL, even all the canuck and ex-canuck fans I know readily admit that. At least one of my canuck friends claims he did it to adapt to a late playoff run and that Jon Quick would quickly emulate him, which of course, did not happen at all. Luongo flops, plain and simple. Can't get anywhere close to him before he drops.

And I don't believe the Canucks are all divers. Just Luongo, Kesler, Lapierre. The rest are fine, those 3 are completely over the top and ridiculous.
I find it hard to see that, ive watched lots o Canucks games and I've never seen this happen.

I always found Marty to be worse then any other goalie in the league.

I'll agree with Kesler, but that guy is awesome.

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12-01-2012, 03:27 PM
  #968
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I guess my only real coal in this fire is that I do have confidence in Pavs. I believe he is on the upswing of his career; he showed the ability to steal games and he is only 25.

The Luongo to Winnipeg topic is a very unrealistic one IMO and will never happen. Only have to wonder why this is even a topic is because we are bored.
That's totally what it is. I said that in my first post on the topic.

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12-01-2012, 03:48 PM
  #969
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That's totally what it is. I said that in my first post on the topic.
That you did dude. Just read that. My bad for chiming in late and not reading a few pages back.

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12-01-2012, 04:16 PM
  #970
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That you did dude. Just read that. My bad for chiming in late and not reading a few pages back.
And it has actually sparked a few pages of conversation, and whether its possible or not, it's had us all conversing about it for the last day an a bit fairly consistently and there has only been on bash the crap out of the player post. Not bad.

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12-01-2012, 04:24 PM
  #971
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I find it hard to see that, ive watched lots o Canucks games and I've never seen this happen.

I always found Marty to be worse then any other goalie in the league.

I'll agree with Kesler, but that guy is awesome.
I hate to do this, but there is stupid amounts of video evidence, he flops like a fish out of water whenever gets close



One this one the stick does not even comes close to his head...


Literally every single game Vancouver game I watch I see him dive. I know I am not the only one, since it's all over the place. Like I said, my VAN friends admit he is the worst diving goalie in the NHL, it's a pretty well known thing...

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12-01-2012, 04:27 PM
  #972
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And it has actually sparked a few pages of conversation, and whether its possible or not, it's had us all conversing about it for the last day an a bit fairly consistently and there has only been on bash the crap out of the player post. Not bad.
Yeah man, agreed. Well done!

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12-01-2012, 05:14 PM
  #973
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Of course you do realize that NHL jobs are extremely competitive, and players don't just call up the teams and cities they want to play in and automatically walk into a job.
No! [/sarcasm]

That is probably why I said this a few posts back....

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He is obviously only stating he wouldn't stand in the way of trades to spots other than Florida because he is contractually bound to report elsewhere regardless - or he doesn't get paid.
Lou is nothing but a pipe dream.

The Jets wouldn't seek him out because he has publicly stated a preference to be in Florida. A bit of critical thought application suggests that means he wouldn't exactly be a happy camper if dealt to Winnipeg.


Last edited by Gump Hasek: 12-01-2012 at 05:39 PM. Reason: poor spelling!
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12-01-2012, 07:08 PM
  #974
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Are you really going to count his 7 and 12 games stints as full seasons? I think you're trying to portray an image to match your argument, that simply isn't true. Context! I see this season as his 4th full season in the NHL.
No, I did not say this would be his 6th FULL season, but he has had 5 previous kicks at the cat.
However, if you think I'm being a little hard on Pavs, you're probably right. He is in a key position for us, making a ton of money and does not have the career numbers or improving performance of a winning NHL goaltender. Simple as that. His off-ice antics haven't endeared me to him either, I admit. He's still got a chance to prove himself, but the clock is ticking and the love is tough.
Contrast this, with, for example, Burmistrov. The kid is 21, this is his third year, his trajectory has been in the right direction, his off-ice behaviour impeccable and the Jets' fate is not so directly tied-in to his performance. I've got a lot more patience for that.

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12-01-2012, 07:28 PM
  #975
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lou may be an "elite" regular season goalie.
However, he is far from that in the playoffs.

He is not worth anything to me, especially with that contract

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