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team with the best D prospect.

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:45 AM
  #76
WarriorOfGandhi
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am I the only one who thinks that Pittsburgh's extremely poor drafting over the past six years should preclude them from the highest ranking?

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12-01-2012, 02:14 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
am I the only one who thinks that Pittsburgh's extremely poor drafting over the past six years should preclude them from the highest ranking?
Yes.

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Old
12-01-2012, 10:16 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
Outside of G. Reinhart, Marincin is better than any D the Islanders have in their system. Talk about setting the bar low. You think the guys below is a group that's top 5 worthy. Get real dude!


1. Griffin Reinhart CHL 8.0 C
2. Matt Donovan Pro 7.0 B
3. Ville Pokka Europe 7.0 C
4. Scott Mayfield NCAA 7.0 C
5. Calvin de Haan Pro 7.0 C
6. Brenden Kichton CHL 7.0 D
7. Aaron Ness Pro 7.0 D
8. Andrey Pedan CHL 7.0 D
9. Adam Pelech CHL 7.0 D

If we're using HF grading, then you're right. I'll give you that much.

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Old
12-01-2012, 10:43 AM
  #79
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
If Gardiner is a prospect, then Los Angeles with Doughty and St. Louis with Pietrangelo and Karlsson and etc.
No it would include Faulk, Larsson, Scandella, Voynov, Orlov, Cowen(been mentioned in this thread), Josi (been mentioned in this thread), Ellis (been mentioned in this thread), Elliot (been mentioned in this thread), Savard(been mentioned in this thread), Gubransson (been mentioned in this thread), etc. etc.

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Old
12-01-2012, 10:44 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
Outside of G. Reinhart, Marincin is better than any D the Islanders have in their system. Talk about setting the bar low. You think the guys below is a group that's top 5 worthy. Get real dude!


1. Griffin Reinhart CHL 8.0 C
2. Matt Donovan Pro 7.0 B
3. Ville Pokka Europe 7.0 C
4. Scott Mayfield NCAA 7.0 C
5. Calvin de Haan Pro 7.0 C
6. Brenden Kichton CHL 7.0 D
7. Aaron Ness Pro 7.0 D
8. Andrey Pedan CHL 7.0 D
9. Adam Pelech CHL 7.0 D
I would not use HF rankings to compare. They have independent authors performing the grading where some appear to be more harsh than others.


Last edited by jedimyrmidon: 12-01-2012 at 10:45 AM. Reason: corrected wording
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Old
12-01-2012, 11:13 AM
  #81
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Using hf ratings, im i the only one impressed by the isles having 9 d-men that are 7.0 or higher?

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:00 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Using hf ratings, im i the only one impressed by the isles having 9 d-men that are 7.0 or higher?
Haha I thought the same thing! I think it has to do with their author who seems to be quite lenient. Although they do have a great D prospect pool.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by judge301 View Post
Did I say all dmen had to be as big as the biggest player in the league? Don't think so bud. I think I simply said they were undersized compared to the average really.... I believe I was saying they would have to overcome that to become truely elite dmen and as such that needs to be considered when comparing the top elite defense prospects of the league. IMHO the lack of size puts the Minny duo at a disadvantage compared to other duos that are 2 or 3 inches taller and 20 -30 pounds heavier.
The average NHL defenseman is between 6'1" and 6'2" and weighs about 210lbs. Brodin is 6'1" and should fill out to be at least 200lbs. Dumba is 6' and will likely top 200lbs as well. They're very very very slightly below average sized defensemen. An "undersized" defenseman would be someone like Spurgeon (5'9"), Murphy (5'11" 168lbs), or Karlsson (5'11" 172lbs). Dumba will fill out to be about the same size as Doughty (6' 212lbs) and Brodin will be the same size as Suter (6'1" 194lbs).

There's literally no way to justify the claim that Dumba and Brodin are "undersized."

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:26 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The average NHL defenseman is between 6'1" and 6'2" and weighs about 210lbs. Brodin is 6'1" and should fill out to be at least 200lbs. Dumba is 6' and will likely top 200lbs as well. They're very very very slightly below average sized defensemen. An "undersized" defenseman would be someone like Spurgeon (5'9"), Murphy (5'11" 168lbs), or Karlsson (5'11" 172lbs). Dumba will fill out to be about the same size as Doughty (6' 212lbs) and Brodin will be the same size as Suter (6'1" 194lbs).

There's literally no way to justify the claim that Dumba and Brodin are "undersized."
Undersized is thrown around too loosely around here. Rielly is in the same boat, just under 6'1" already over 200 pounds yet hes "undersized" for an NHL D. Just ignore it.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:48 PM
  #85
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Oilers defiantly comparable to TML. Both have 2 elite prospects and 3-4 higher end prospects. Kinda funny to see people debate over which one prospect is better then the other.

As for overall, Pitt takes it

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:05 PM
  #86
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To answer the thread's question literally: Boston

Pitt takes it as an overall dman prospect pool.

Somewhat surprising lack of love for the Canes in this thread. I know Faulk graduated because of last season but they still have some dang solid prospects in their system.

Ryan Murphy
Danny Biega (first team All-American, ECAC best defensive dman, runner up ECAC player of the year last year)
Mark Alt
Bobby Sanguinetti
Austin Levi
Jacob Slavin
Keegan Lowe
Michal Jordan
Rasmus Rissanen
Trevor Carrick

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:31 PM
  #87
Pierre Dagenais
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
To answer the thread's question literally: Boston

Pitt takes it as an overall dman prospect pool.

Somewhat surprising lack of love for the Canes in this thread. I know Faulk graduated because of last season but they still have some dang solid prospects in their system.

Ryan Murphy
Danny Biega (first team All-American, ECAC best defensive dman, runner up ECAC player of the year last year)
Mark Alt
Bobby Sanguinetti
Austin Levi
Jacob Slavin
Keegan Lowe
Michal Jordan
Rasmus Rissanen
Trevor Carrick
The lack of love for Canes prospects isn't surprising at all. Just look at your list. Outside of the top 2, there's really nothing else. Sanguinetti is almost 25 and has barely played in the NHL.

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Old
12-01-2012, 01:44 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
The lack of love for Canes prospects isn't surprising at all. Just look at your list. Outside of the top 2, there's really nothing else. Sanguinetti is almost 25 and has barely played in the NHL.
Dude, there's Michael Jordan!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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12-01-2012, 02:02 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
Outside of G. Reinhart, Marincin is better than any D the Islanders have in their system. Talk about setting the bar low. You think the guys below is a group that's top 5 worthy. Get real dude!


1. Griffin Reinhart CHL 8.0 C
2. Matt Donovan Pro 7.0 B
3. Ville Pokka Europe 7.0 C
4. Scott Mayfield NCAA 7.0 C
5. Calvin de Haan Pro 7.0 C
6. Brenden Kichton CHL 7.0 D
7. Aaron Ness Pro 7.0 D
8. Andrey Pedan CHL 7.0 D
9. Adam Pelech CHL 7.0 D
First of all I wasn't comparing the Isles prospects to the Oilers prospects. I said it's a joke to consider Marincin a "high-end" prospect, which it is. IMO, high-end prospects are 1st line/1st pairing guys. Marincin projects more as a 2nd pairing defenseman. If you consider that high-end, then I suppose you're right.

As far as the Isles go, yeah, I'd consider them to be top-5 or at least close to it. Reinhart is an elite prospect. Donovan, deHaan and Mayfield all have #2-4 potential, and all have had success to this point since being drafted. Kichton has been over a PPG player for the last 3 years and will probably end up being a 3rd pairing, PP QB at the NHL level. Pedan has excelled since being drafted and is widely considered to be a future 2nd-pairing defenseman by a lot of people. Pelech is another guy who has dominated since being drafted and looks to be a future shut-down NHL defenseman. I honestly don't know much about Pokka, but considering he was a borderline 1st rounder a few months ago I'd say he at least has pretty good upside.

Personally, I think Donovan, deHaan and Mayfield are all better prospects than Marincin. However, even if they aren't, the sheer depth of the Isles system defensively makes them a top-5 team(or like I said, close to it) in this category.

BTW, just wondering, are you basing your opinion on the HF grades of these prospects or have you actually watched any of them play?

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Old
12-01-2012, 02:12 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
The lack of love for Canes prospects isn't surprising at all. Just look at your list. Outside of the top 2, there's really nothing else. Sanguinetti is almost 25 and has barely played in the NHL.
Agree to disagree on that. Levi's been one of the best dmen in the OHL the past 3 years, arguably the best pure defensive dman in the league. Lowe was a big part of the Oil Kings run last year and has stepped up his offensive game this year. Alt's one of the better defensive dmen in the WCHA and a great overall athlete. Rissanen impressed Charlotte staff enough for them to pair him with Faulk over Sanguinetti and Gragnani. There's not a lot of hype in the group outside the top 2, but the talent's there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yourface View Post
Dude, there's Michael Jordan!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol

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Old
12-01-2012, 02:26 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Yourface View Post
Dude, there's Michael Jordan!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surprised he didn't learn his lesson after the baseball fiasco :p

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Old
12-01-2012, 02:29 PM
  #92
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Nice to see the Oilers getting some love. Schultz inclusion obviously gave us a huge boost, but guys like Kelfbom and Marincin deserve respect in their own rites.

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Old
12-01-2012, 03:21 PM
  #93
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Pens easily IMO

The Preds are either top 10 or bottom 10 depending on your definition of a prospect. Josi, Blum, and Ellis have all played in the NHL, but meet HFs defintion.

(Josi)
(Ellis)
(Blum)
Ekholm-won the SEL's Norris last year, very under-rated
Charles-Oliver Roussell
Bitteto
Jarvinen

Huge drop off after the top 3, and an even bigger one after Ekholm. I think we might be bottom five if the first three don't count.


Last edited by Top 6 Spaling: 12-01-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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Old
12-01-2012, 03:24 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
To answer the thread's question literally: Boston

Pitt takes it as an overall dman prospect pool.

Somewhat surprising lack of love for the Canes in this thread. I know Faulk graduated because of last season but they still have some dang solid prospects in their system.

Ryan Murphy
Danny Biega (first team All-American, ECAC best defensive dman, runner up ECAC player of the year last year)
Mark Alt
Bobby Sanguinetti
Austin Levi
Jacob Slavin
Keegan Lowe
Michal Jordan
Rasmus Rissanen
Trevor Carrick
Holy ****. Michal Jordan is still part of the canes organization ?

I forgot all about that guy.

A little love for the habs. Funny enough, one of our up and coming d prospects hasn't been hyped yet, mainly because he's playing college, but Mac Bennett. Another puck mover dman, but he's doig well.

He's got 10 points in 12 NCAA games.

Magnus Nygren has improved this year, too. 17 points in 28 games in the SEL 1 point off top spot for dman. Ranked 2nd in total pims for dman... What a goon


Last edited by Analyzer: 12-01-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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12-01-2012, 03:52 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
am I the only one who thinks that Pittsburgh's extremely poor drafting over the past six years should preclude them from the highest ranking?
Care to elaborate?

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Old
12-01-2012, 04:53 PM
  #96
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Not the Jets

Trouba (RH #2-4)
Postma (RH #4-depth, but basically NHL ready)
Redmond (RH #4-depth, but basically NHL ready)
Melchiori (LH #4-depth)
Yuen (LH #4-depth)

...oh well... at least we got Enstrom, Byfuglien and (most likely) Bogosian tied long term...

My vote would also go for Penguins

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12-01-2012, 05:30 PM
  #97
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Not going to talk about Oilers cause I'd look like a homer. I really think Torontos defense prospects look better on paper than the Pens though, and it really hinges on Reilly. He's the best player of the group IMO so I would have to give the edge to them. While I think Yakupov>Reilly, I don't think Burke was completely talking out of his @$5 when he said he had Reilly rated the highest, the guy is going to be the real deal. Watching both Murray and Reilly play I would honestly choose Riley over Murray even if I may be in the minority. Then you factor in Gardiner who is poised to be a solid smooth skating transition player who has already seemed to have found a niche and it puts them over the edge. That being said, Toronto sucks and I hope they trade all these good defensemen away for old players well past their primes.

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Old
12-01-2012, 05:49 PM
  #98
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Pittsburgh definitely has the best collection of defensemen prospects rights now. Their wealth on the D is absurd. It's also real high talent. Despres, Pouliot, Maatta, Harrington, and Dumoulin are just a sick group to build around. Ray Shero did a hell of a job assembling that group and it's not as if he's had a bad judge of talent either. He's really turned around the drafting in Pittsburgh.

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12-01-2012, 07:52 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by PETRYDISH View Post
Not going to talk about Oilers cause I'd look like a homer. I really think Torontos defense prospects look better on paper than the Pens though, and it really hinges on Reilly. He's the best player of the group IMO so I would have to give the edge to them. While I think Yakupov>Reilly, I don't think Burke was completely talking out of his @$5 when he said he had Reilly rated the highest, the guy is going to be the real deal. Watching both Murray and Reilly play I would honestly choose Riley over Murray even if I may be in the minority. Then you factor in Gardiner who is poised to be a solid smooth skating transition player who has already seemed to have found a niche and it puts them over the edge. That being said, Toronto sucks and I hope they trade all these good defensemen away for old players well past their primes.
There's noooooo way the Leafs D prospects look better than the Penguins' (who have a plethora of potential top-4 D-men).
I'll just repost what I did earlier because I really feel the Leafs prospects are being overhyped here... Gardiner doesn't count, get that through your heads! That's even worse than RNH being included in prospect lists.

Rielly (8.5 C) = Schultz (8.0 C)
Finn (7.0 C) << Klefbom (8.0 C)
Percy (7.0 C) <= Marincin (7.5 C)
Blacker (7.5 C) > Gernat (7.5 D)
Holzer (6.0 B) < Musil (7.5 C)

Not to mention the depth guys that might be in Edmonton's favour... Simpson, Bigos, Davidson, Teubert, Laleggia, Fedun, etc.
I just don't understand how the Leafs can figure in everyone's top 5 lists, but not the Oilers.

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12-01-2012, 08:03 PM
  #100
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Quote:
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There's noooooo way the Leafs D prospects look better than the Penguins' (who have a plethora of potential top-4 D-men).
I'll just repost what I did earlier because I really feel the Leafs prospects are being overhyped here... Gardiner doesn't count, get that through your heads! That's even worse than RNH being included in prospect lists.

Rielly (8.5 C) = Schultz (8.0 C)
Finn (7.0 C) << Klefbom (8.0 C)
Percy (7.0 C) <= Marincin (7.5 C)
Blacker (7.5 C) > Gernat (7.5 D)
Holzer (6.0 B) < Musil (7.5 C)

Why are people using HF ratings? There independently done by biased or un biased people. They are not a clear representative factor of anyone's talent or future talent by any means. Only way to gather and opinion is watching all of these prospects play and drawing a conclusion from that.

Not to mention the depth guys that might be in Edmonton's favour... Simpson, Bigos, Davidson, Teubert, Laleggia, Fedun, etc.
I just don't understand how the Leafs can figure in everyone's top 5 lists, but not the Oilers.
Why are people using HF ratings? There independently done by biased or un biased people. They are not a clear representative factor of anyone's talent or future talent by any means. Only way to gather and opinion is watching all of these prospects play and drawing a conclusion from that. I see that your new here, but those ratings are not a good indicator.

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