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team with the best D prospect.

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Old
12-01-2012, 09:19 PM
  #101
topchowda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Why are people using HF ratings? There independently done by biased or un biased people. They are not a clear representative factor of anyone's talent or future talent by any means. Only way to gather and opinion is watching all of these prospects play and drawing a conclusion from that. I see that your new here, but those ratings are not a good indicator.
Its nearly impossible to watch all the prospects. HF ratings are by no means an exact science but they ball park where prospects are in relation to others. While there are ratings that make you scratch your head, the average of the ratings are good. They also help neutral fans get an idea about what to expect from a prospect. Musil for example does not play a fancy game so hes overlooked, but many scouts (HF too) pick up on his strengths.

Also the ratings are neutral, if you were to have debate just based on viewings every leafs fan would say their defenseman is the next bobby orr, likewise for edmonton fans.

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12-01-2012, 09:26 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
Why are people using HF ratings? There independently done by biased or un biased people. They are not a clear representative factor of anyone's talent or future talent by any means. Only way to gather and opinion is watching all of these prospects play and drawing a conclusion from that. I see that your new here, but those ratings are not a good indicator.
There's no way for me of watching every prospect, although I have watched enough of Rielly, Schultz, Klefbom, and Marincin to know their strengths, weaknesses and whatnot. I'm mostly basing my opinion on credentials and hearsay... But my point still stands. The Leafs D-man prospect pool is overrated, and Gardiner should not be included on any prospects list.

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12-01-2012, 09:56 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
First of all I wasn't comparing the Isles prospects to the Oilers prospects. I said it's a joke to consider Marincin a "high-end" prospect, which it is. IMO, high-end prospects are 1st line/1st pairing guys. Marincin projects more as a 2nd pairing defenseman. If you consider that high-end, then I suppose you're right.

As far as the Isles go, yeah, I'd consider them to be top-5 or at least close to it. Reinhart is an elite prospect. Donovan, deHaan and Mayfield all have #2-4 potential, and all have had success to this point since being drafted. Kichton has been over a PPG player for the last 3 years and will probably end up being a 3rd pairing, PP QB at the NHL level. Pedan has excelled since being drafted and is widely considered to be a future 2nd-pairing defenseman by a lot of people. Pelech is another guy who has dominated since being drafted and looks to be a future shut-down NHL defenseman. I honestly don't know much about Pokka, but considering he was a borderline 1st rounder a few months ago I'd say he at least has pretty good upside.

Personally, I think Donovan, deHaan and Mayfield are all better prospects than Marincin. However, even if they aren't, the sheer depth of the Isles system defensively makes them a top-5 team(or like I said, close to it) in this category.

BTW, just wondering, are you basing your opinion on the HF grades of these prospects or have you actually watched any of them play?
To be perfectly honest with you, I've had a fair share of viewings of Reinhart(for obvious reasons being an Oil Kings fan and a CHL fan), Donovan, deHaan, and Mayfield. I was actually hoping that Edmonton would grab Mayfield in the second round...I, perhaps haven't had as much viewings as you have, but am quite familiar with the prospects that I mentioned above.

I should ask you, have you had the chance to watch Marincin play 1st pairing in the AHL, he already has over 10 pts, and plays in all situations. He is 6" 5' and is exceptionally mobile. If you can honestly say that Donovan, deHaan and Mayfield are better than Marincin, you really should watch some OKC games.

IMO, Schultz, Klefbom, and Marincin are all better than all of Isle's D prospects, and if you add Gernat, Musil, Davidson, and Laleggia (leading NCAA D's in scoring), it's not even close.

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Old
12-01-2012, 10:20 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
To be perfectly honest with you, I've had a fair share of viewings of Reinhart(for obvious reasons being an Oil Kings fan and a CHL fan), Donovan, deHaan, and Mayfield. I was actually hoping that Edmonton would grab Mayfield in the second round...I, perhaps haven't had as much viewings as you have, but am quite familiar with the prospects that I mentioned above.

I should ask you, have you had the chance to watch Marincin play 1st pairing in the AHL, he already has over 10 pts, and plays in all situations. He is 6" 5' and is exceptionally mobile. If you can honestly say that Donovan, deHaan and Mayfield are better than Marincin, you really should watch some OKC games.

IMO, Schultz, Klefbom, and Marincin are all better than all of Isle's D prospects, and if you add Gernat, Musil, Davidson, and Laleggia (leading NCAA D's in scoring), it's not even close.
I've seen a couple of OKC games this year, and I'm honestly not surprised that he has over 10 points. Like I said, he's a good prospect(not high-end ) who is playing on a pairing with an elite prospect(who's leading the AHL in scoring) and on a team with a guy who was slightly under a PPG in the NHL(2nd in AHL scoring), last year's 1st overall pick(10th in scoring) and the 1st overall pick from 2 years ago(avging 1.3PPG).

If your opinion is that Marincin is a better prospect than every Islander except Reinhart because he's 6'5 and has 11 points in 18 games(one more point than Matt Donovan in one more game), then I'm not gonna argue with you.

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Old
12-01-2012, 10:28 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I've seen a couple of OKC games this year, and I'm honestly not surprised that he has over 10 points. Like I said, he's a good prospect(not high-end ) who is playing on a pairing with an elite prospect(who's leading the AHL in scoring) and on a team with a guy who was slightly under a PPG in the NHL(2nd in AHL scoring), last year's 1st overall pick(10th in scoring) and the 1st overall pick from 2 years ago(avging 1.3PPG).

If your opinion is that Marincin is a better prospect than every Islander except Reinhart because he's 6'5 and has 11 points in 18 games(one more point than Matt Donovan in one more game), then I'm not gonna argue with you.
I dunno if you were referencing my "high-end" statement, but those catorgories (elite, high-end) are arbitary terms. The difference in terminology was to distinguish between the difference in tiers for the defensive prospects. I labeled guys like Reilly and schultz as elite guys meaning they are in the first tier. While Marincin/Finn are in a tier below (high end) Maybe it was bad word choice. But it still holds that Marincin is still a good prospect with 2nd pairing upside.

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12-01-2012, 10:33 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
I dunno if you were referencing my "high-end" statement, but those catorgories (elite, high-end) are arbitary terms. The difference in terminology was to distinguish between the difference in tiers for the defensive prospects. I labeled guys like Reilly and schultz as elite guys meaning they are in the first tier. While Marincin/Finn are in a tier below (high end) Maybe it was bad word choice. But it still holds that Marincin is still a good prospect with 2nd pairing upside.
No I was never quoting you. Although I do agree that 2nd pairing is Marincin's upside. I was referring to this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto
Sorry guys...but big time homer vote for Edmonton.

They have 3 high end prospects that's looking more and more like 1/2nd pairing D (Schultz, Klef and Marincin), and several others (Gernat, Musil and Davidson) to name a few that are expected to play top 6 roles.

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12-02-2012, 05:23 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
They have 3 high end prospects that's looking more and more like 1/2nd pairing D (Schultz, Klef and Marincin), and several others (Gernat, Musil and Davidson) to name a few that are expected to play top 6 roles.
Klef right now is an enigma. There is not much of a sample size for him. He got demoted last year from the top league. He has gained ground but he's still a major project. I wouldn't consider him high end until a) he stays healthy in an elite league (AHL, NHL, SEL) and b) shows consistent improvement.

Marincin is also an interesting prospect and I'm not quite sure where to slate him as of yet since he's so raw.

To be fair; Minnesota doesn't have great depth but they don't have terrible depth.

They have one franchise defenseman (Brodin), they have a top 4 defenseman (Dumba), and then a bunch of good depth (Kampfer, Gunnarsson, Cuma, Genoway) but guys that probably won't stick around much. The problem is, they called up their two best defensemen in Scandella and Spurgeron, making them ineligible for being considered 'prospects'. As well Stoner and Falk as depth. With that added, Minnesota has good depth but not good prospects.

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12-02-2012, 12:23 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Klef right now is an enigma. There is not much of a sample size for him. He got demoted last year from the top league. He has gained ground but he's still a major project. I wouldn't consider him high end until a) he stays healthy in an elite league (AHL, NHL, SEL) and b) shows consistent improvement.

Marincin is also an interesting prospect and I'm not quite sure where to slate him as of yet since he's so raw.

To be fair; Minnesota doesn't have great depth but they don't have terrible depth.

They have one franchise defenseman (Brodin), they have a top 4 defenseman (Dumba), and then a bunch of good depth (Kampfer, Gunnarsson, Cuma, Genoway) but guys that probably won't stick around much. The problem is, they called up their two best defensemen in Scandella and Spurgeron, making them ineligible for being considered 'prospects'. As well Stoner and Falk as depth. With that added, Minnesota has good depth but not good prospects.
Klefbom has shown consistent improvement though, despite his injury issues. After a not so impressive first half last year, he went to the WJC and was a tournament all-star. That seemed to really boost his confidence and he played pretty much as well as Brodin the rest of the year. This year, he was arguably the SEL's top defenseman until he injured himself. Here are a couple quotes from a Farjestad reporter who posted on the Oilers board:

Quote:
Originally Posted by winther88 View Post
Just as SouthSwe, I'm watching all of the games Farjestad plays and i can only agree with all the praise he is giving Klefbom. Oscar has been a force so far this season. His pokechecks are just awesome and it seems impossible for the opposing forwards to get past him.

The biggest difference this year compared to last season is that he's a lot more physical, using his big body to shield the puck and and also to push the opposing forwards around. He's also a lot calmer with the puck, always making smart decisions and great passes. It seems like he is reading the play faster than everyone else on the ice and he's always a step ahead.

Brodin really made an outstanding season for us last year and is the best young player we have had in years, until now. The start Klefbom have had of this season is in my mind better than what Brodin performed last year. If he continues to play like this, he really should be a regular in the national team, and that is also something that the coach for Team Sweden has been mentioning.

On top of all of his skills on the ice he really is one of the nicest guys I have met in the business. I work as a hockey reporter and have been doing a lot of interviews with Oscar and he's just genuinely nice. He could talk for hours and always takes time to answer all of your questions. A class act indeed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by winther88 View Post
Klefbom just keeps dominating. He was our best defender once again tonight and his defensive play is just awesome. He has an amazing accuracy in his pokechecks and he's also winning all the puck battles along the boards.

For those of you who wondered what the announcers said. They praised him the whole game and during the second intermission he was named the defenceman of the week in whole SEL. The swedish broadcasters are picking a team of the week every week the entire season to get the team of the season by the end of the season. Klefbom is right now one of the two defenders in the league that has gotten most votes so far this year.

21.42 was Klefbom's icetime tonight. He aslo had three shots, two of them on goal and was very close to score the game winning goal in overtime. We later won the game on penalties anyways and with Klefbom as our best player we have now won five of the last six games.
Here's one by SouthSwe:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthSwe View Post
The local newspaper is giving out points 5-4-3-2-1 to the 5 best Färjestad players every game. Klefbom was leading with 15 points after the first 7 games. The 2nd guy had 9.

Our coach also picked our 3 best players so far. Doubt I have to say that Klefa is one of them.
And here's a strong compliment from veteran defender Ole-Kristian Tollefsen:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole-Kristian Tollefsen View Post
"Kleva is a travelling star. How good he'll be and where he'll play is only up to himself. "Kleva the machine"."
Anyways, you get the point... He's definitely a high-end prospect in my mind. I've also watched a Farjestad game this year, and I can definitely say he's worth the hype (not biased at all )

I agree that Marincin's a bit of a wild card at this point.


Last edited by franfrey*: 12-02-2012 at 12:45 PM.
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Old
12-02-2012, 03:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Saying a young D shouldn't be included in this just because he's already played his rookie season is pretty stupid in my opinion

Who cares who has the best d prospects - the better question is who has the best young D-core moving forward because then you can include a Gardiner, McNabb, Ellis, Josi, etc.
Well if that's the case, the Blues have a case. Shattenkirk's 23 and Pietrangelo's 22. Then we have Cole, Russell, and Polak all under 26

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12-02-2012, 07:18 PM
  #110
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Surprised I haven't seen Detroit mentioned yet:

Brendan Smith
Xavier Ouellet
Ryan Sproul
Nick Jensen
Alexei Marchenko
Mattias Backman
Adam Almqvist
Richard Nedomlel
Chad Billins

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12-02-2012, 07:30 PM
  #111
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non-homer vote has to go to Pittsburgh or Dallas.

Dillon
Oleksiak
Nemeth
Glennie

All top 2 pairing potential.

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12-02-2012, 07:49 PM
  #112
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Pierre McGuire's reaction during the 2012 Draft should tell you that Pittsburgh has the best D pipeline

So funny to see his level of excitement go up each time Pittsburgh acquired a D prospect. Once Maatta was selected, I thought he was going to have an aneurysm.

But seriously, it's Pittsburgh hands down.

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12-02-2012, 07:55 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by starsfan17 View Post
non-homer vote has to go to Pittsburgh or Dallas.

Dillon
Oleksiak
Nemeth
Glennie

All top 2 pairing potential.
I would say that's a really, really homer vote.

Best prospects Pittsburgh, although I'm probably not as high as most on them (not a huge Harrington or Despres fan, really like Maatta and Morrow). Best defensive core under 25, Phoenix.

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12-02-2012, 08:35 PM
  #114
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I dont think its the best group but the red wings have a very nice collection:
Brendan Smith,
Adam Almqvist,
Xavier Ouellet,
Ryan Sproul,
Mattias Backman,
Alexei Marchenko

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12-02-2012, 08:47 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by starsfan17 View Post
non-homer vote has to go to Pittsburgh or Dallas.

Dillon
Oleksiak
Nemeth
Glennie

All top 2 pairing potential.
Glennie is a right wing.

Dillon will never be a top-2 d-man, are you seriousing me?

He'll be lucky if the Stars don't have the depth enough for him to make the lineup.

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12-02-2012, 09:12 PM
  #116
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Pittsburgh is the clear leader here. There's alot of candidates for the #2 spot.(Boston,Phoenix,Columbus,Toronto,Minny)

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12-02-2012, 09:38 PM
  #117
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Toronto D prospects are so overrated it's unbelievable.

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12-02-2012, 11:36 PM
  #118
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Glennie is a right wing.

Dillon will never be a top-2 d-man, are you seriousing me?

He'll be lucky if the Stars don't have the depth enough for him to make the lineup.
It's Glennie

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12-03-2012, 12:20 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Yourface View Post
There's no way for me of watching every prospect, although I have watched enough of Rielly, Schultz, Klefbom, and Marincin to know their strengths, weaknesses and whatnot. I'm mostly basing my opinion on credentials and hearsay... But my point still stands. The Leafs D-man prospect pool is overrated, and Gardiner should not be included on any prospects list.
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Toronto D prospects are so overrated it's unbelievable.
Uh huh. Can I safely assume you've never seen Percy or Finn play?

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12-03-2012, 12:30 AM
  #120
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Anyways, you get the point... He's definitely a high-end prospect in my mind. I've also watched a Farjestad game this year, and I can definitely say he's worth the hype (not biased at all )
At one point Tyler Cuma was a high-end prospect himself. But injuries completely derailed his career. At this point in time, Klefblom himself has had injury issues that are causing him to lose progress.

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12-03-2012, 12:34 AM
  #121
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Uh huh. Can I safely assume you've never seen Percy or Finn play?
Yes. I just can't believe Toronto is included on everyone's top 5 lists when Edmonton is barely included on any. Klefbom >> Finn, Marincin => Percy based on credentials / everything I've ever heard.

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12-03-2012, 12:36 AM
  #122
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its funny how gardiner and shultz are treated differently, lmao if gardiner was on any team but the leafs he would still count. shultz woulda been in the NHL last year too if he signed with Anaheim...... and people saying shultz is a better prospect than rielly? please... give your head a shake.. rielly was picked higher, is playing higher level hockey at the same age... how people justify that is "omg leaf prospects=overrated"... lmao @ hf

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12-03-2012, 12:41 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
At one point Tyler Cuma was a high-end prospect himself. But injuries completely derailed his career. At this point in time, Klefblom himself has had injury issues that are causing him to lose progress.
I guess you're right but he still has immense potential no matter which way you look at it. The term "high end" is so subjective and irrational anyway, it doesn't really matter haha. You also said he is a "project," which I don't really agree with. Most Oilers fans are considering him to be very close to NHL-ready, as he definitely has NHL skills (in the defensive zone at least). He'll either make the team next year or the year after that.

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12-03-2012, 12:46 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
its funny how gardiner and shultz are treated differently, lmao if gardiner was on any team but the leafs he would still count. shultz woulda been in the NHL last year too if he signed with Anaheim...... and people saying shultz is a better prospect than rielly? please... give your head a shake.. rielly was picked higher, is playing higher level hockey at the same age... how people justify that is "omg leaf prospects=overrated"... lmao @ hf
Lol no.... Does anyone on HF (other than the web site administrators) consider RNH a prospect? He played less games than Gardiner last year and is younger, yet no one considers him a prospect. Not even Oilers fans. Also, did anyone say Schultz is a better prospect than Rielly (which is what I assume you meant because Schultz is quite clearly the better player today)? No, no one said that... I'd say they're about on par.

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12-03-2012, 01:07 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
its funny how gardiner and shultz are treated differently, lmao if gardiner was on any team but the leafs he would still count. shultz woulda been in the NHL last year too if he signed with Anaheim...... and people saying shultz is a better prospect than rielly? please... give your head a shake.. rielly was picked higher, is playing higher level hockey at the same age... how people justify that is "omg leaf prospects=overrated"... lmao @ hf
scouts are picking schultz over Reilly. Corey Pronman stated Schultz is better. Do I agree? not sure yet, but some people agree

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