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Are the Americans going to overtake hockey in our lifetime?

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Old
12-01-2012, 04:31 PM
  #51
FishManSam
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Old
12-01-2012, 04:31 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
NASCAR and MLS. You could even throw in NCAA as its own category if you want.
I don't do that because you would have to roll all forms of hockey in the US together too. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal and they probably do watch some pro hockey too. But there are areas of the US that are huge into following hockey, I live in one where Badgers fans far outpace the AHL fans. But like I said you need to include all levels and by throwing in the NCAA your including certain hockey fans and just giving them away. Not too mention some of the AHL areas have big loyal followings.

If you want to seperate the NCAA that impacts numbers across the board. Does every SEC fanboy love the NFL? Not really, they do like football in general. Areas where college basketball is popular have proven difficult for the NBA. They contribute to the sport and might be different but rolling them into one sport makes some sense. Otherwise it makes it very tough for where you allow it to impact things and where you don't.

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12-01-2012, 04:39 PM
  #53
Frozen Fiend
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It should be interesting to see. I lived in Michigan all my life, then moved to Houston for a couple years, it was so sad to see how hockey was regarded down there lol. Thank god I came back to Michigan.

I think it could definitely happen in the next 60 years or so, who knows.

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12-01-2012, 04:43 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Fiend View Post
It should be interesting to see. I lived in Michigan all my life, then moved to Houston for a couple years, it was so sad to see how hockey was regarded down there lol. Thank god I came back to Michigan.

I think it could definitely happen in the next 60 years or so, who knows.
I believe the WHA Houston Aeros were fairly popular. Does anyone here know if that was just during the time Howe was on the team, or were they always popular?

Edit - Forget it. I didn't know they existed for that short amount of time.

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Old
12-01-2012, 04:53 PM
  #55
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Not likely. It's just not part of their collective culture, the way it is with baseball, basketball, and football. There are really only a few states (Massachusetts, Michigan, New York) that have a decent hockey culture but I'd imagine Minnesota is really the only state where the game is a way of life. In Canada, it's on a list of life's most important necessities, along with water, food, and air.

Besides, on a player-by-player basis, Canada is still so far ahead of the States, that it's not really close. The States has some great players (Quick, Suter, Parise, Kane, Kesler, etc.) but the Canadians still trump them on top-end talent (Crosby, Stamkos, Weber, Doughty, Giroux, Tavares, Toews, etc.) and they blow them away in depth. Canada could ice two or three competitive teams in any international competition. Imagine what the US's B-team would look like?


Last edited by nowhereman: 12-01-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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12-01-2012, 05:04 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Besides, on a player-by-player basis, Canada is still so far ahead of the States, that it's not really close. The States has some great players (Quick, Suter, Parise, Kane, Kesler, etc.) but the Canadians still trump them on top-end talent (Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, Tavares, Toews, etc.) and they blow them away in depth. Canada could ice two or three competitive teams in any international competition. Imagine what the US's B-team would look like?
Canada has 35m people, the US has 315m. Hockey doesn't have to pass football/Basketball/Baseball in the US, they just need a small percentage (10ish %)of the population to fall in love with it (it is a great game) and the hockey development will continue to grow. The States are great at high end development programs and are willing to spend the money on them, they just need a bigger pool to draw from.

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Old
12-01-2012, 05:08 PM
  #57
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i love the game of hockey, i think americans will grow to love the game as well and they will eventually become better at hockey since they are 10 times bigger. this is assuming they remain one of the richest countries in the world and can afford hockey

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12-01-2012, 05:15 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
NASCAR and MLS. You could even throw in NCAA as its own category if you want.


Hockey in many American markets is like lacrosse in Edmonton. Would I like to see the Edmonton Rush play? Sure. Would I buy a ticket to for a Rush game ahead of the Oilers and Oil Kings? nope. Thus, I never go see lacrosse.

In many US cities, you have the NBA, MLB, NFL, NCAA, MLS - why would someone buy a hockey ticket when they prefer all of the above?
NASCAR isn't a sport.

NASCAR = NHL
Racing = Hockey

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:41 PM
  #59
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In terms of population, only Minnesota, Michigan, New York and Massachusetts should count.

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:44 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
It could happen, our population is larger.
True but hockey isn't played competitively in every state and in many states that it is played in, it is not the #1 sport, behind baseball, football, basketball, college football and basketball and even NASCAR. I'm not saying it WON'T happen but population is probably not the main reason if it does.

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:51 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Imagine what the US's B-team would look like?


You don't have to imagine turn on the World Championships. It isn't pretty as far as the high end hockey nations.

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Old
12-01-2012, 06:55 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
Not really considering 95% of that population doesn't care about hockey.
Its a bit of an overstatement. The northern USA are far more populous than Canada, and even if only 10% of the US population cares about hockey thats equivalent to the population of Canada. Contrary to popular belief on HFboards not all Canadians care about hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt
True but hockey isn't played competitively in every state and in many states that it is played in, it is not the #1 sport, behind baseball, football, basketball, college football and basketball and even NASCAR. I'm not saying it WON'T happen but population is probably not the main reason if it does.
Of course, if it were the case the US would have been the leading force in hockey for a while. However the pool of prospective american players is immense and the number of US drafted players gets larger every year.

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Old
12-01-2012, 07:12 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Its a bit of an overstatement. The northern USA are far more populous than Canada, and even if only 10% of the US population cares about hockey thats equivalent to the population of Canada. Contrary to popular belief on HFboards not all Canadians care about hockey.
The traditional big three

Minnesota: 5,344,861
Massachusetts: 6.5 million
Michigan: 9,876,187

Canada: 34,818,867

When you consider large parts of Wisconsin, Illinois, New York, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey have a hockey presence. The numbers population wise aren't terrible. The problem is they all have to travel to play each other. Each team has a couple good teams. Really that is where Minnesota is the only State that behaves like Canada. Growing up playing youth hockey in Michigan, we needed to go play other area teams to play elite level hockey. There were only four to five teams in the State that can give you a good run. That is in a state where a lot of people play hockey. It always struck me that we played a lot of teams from different areas including Canada, but didn't see whole lot of Minnesota, they have enough to stay mostly local, it makes a big difference.

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12-01-2012, 07:14 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by dangerzone View Post
In terms of population, only Minnesota, Michigan, New York and Massachusetts should count.
which is both ridiculous,and STILL bigger than Canada's population

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12-01-2012, 07:16 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
which is both ridiculous,and STILL bigger than Canada's population
Not bigger, but as you can see it is a lot of people.

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12-01-2012, 07:18 PM
  #66
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Here's the problem I see with US population growth and hockey. Their population growth is mainly through their immigrant population which does not play hockey. So yes their population keeps getting bigger but the rate of people picking up hockey...I dunno if it's as big. And of course they will increase but not at the same rate as population increase or even a decent fraction of it.

In Canada of course it's expensive and very difficult for immigrants to pick up hockey but their next-gen kids are doing it a lot now whereas in the US those 2nd generation and later kids are picking up other sports.

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12-01-2012, 07:19 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Not bigger, but as you can see it is a lot of people.
the post I quoted included New York too which actually does make it bigger

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12-01-2012, 07:20 PM
  #68
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I don't think we'll ever see the day where the US is where Canada is now, but it will get ALOT closer.

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12-01-2012, 07:22 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
the post I quoted included New York too which actually does make it bigger
That is mostly western/upstate New York, although I think New Jersey is getting to the point were they are getting close to inclusion in this discussion as well. Wisconsin is another area where yes the southeast part of the state doesn't play a ton of hockey, but outside of that it is very common. Even if you eliminate the Milwaukee population those are big numbers.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 12-01-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Old
12-01-2012, 07:28 PM
  #70
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yes. the quality of play is already pretty comparable as we saw in the Olympic Games & the fact that USA Hockey is churning out more high end talent should also be an indicator. The fact that Texas & California is now producing players should also indicate the pendulum is swinging. We have a long way to go for sure, but we are catching up....

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Old
12-01-2012, 07:32 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
yes. the quality of play is already pretty comparable as we saw in the Olympic Games & the fact that USA Hockey is churning out more high end talent should also be an indicator. The fact that Texas & California is now producing players should also indicate the pendulum is swinging. We have a long way to go for sure, but we are catching up....
I would not be so quick to say the "quality of play is already pretty comparable".

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Old
12-01-2012, 07:36 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I don't think we'll ever see the day where the US is where Canada is now, but it will get ALOT closer.
where Canada is now i'd agree

I think the US will probably eventually surpass Canada(but not in our lifetimes) but never reach Canada's current level of talent dominance due to growth in other areas of the world

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Old
12-01-2012, 08:48 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Hmmm, surprised there are a number of Americans posting here that seem to have a resounding "no" to this question. I too don't think I'll live to see the day when Canada isn't producing the most elite players in the NHL, or even the highest volume of players, but you never know.
i think the US has a better chance of producing world class soccer players before elite hockey players. that being said i wouldnt be suprised if USA wins the gold next olympics.

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Old
12-01-2012, 08:50 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
By pond you mean ice time in general right? Because I think the days of old where you saw players become stars by hitting the outdoor rink are over...the stars now come from the AAA clubs where they hit up the rink 5 times a week.
Access to ice at the age of 3-4 in your back yard will always play a role in that development.

For instances, and please excuse the vagueness. Saskatchewan has 1/4 the population of BC and has produced more NHL players. Do you think it's because:

a) they are genetically superior,
b) that Sask has a far better developmental system or,
c) do you think access to ice at a young age plays a role?

Growing up in Van meant playing ball hockey 75& of the year after school or on weekends. If it we had ice anywhere and everywhere, we'd have played there.

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Old
12-01-2012, 09:52 PM
  #75
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Howe and Gretzky came up in a different time. And you're really out there if you believe that the Staal brothers wouldn't have become NHL players without a pond. Sure, it provided cheap and entertaining hockey and a chance to learn some stick handling and have fun, but the VAST majority of their skilled were honed through playing years of AAA hockey.
The few guys I played hockey with who became semi-successful in hockey all played on the outdoor rinks a lot. I played AAA through until Midget when I quit, and most of us would go to the outdoor rinks any chance we got. In my experience, outdoor hockey is where kids develop much of their creativity.

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