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No More Lockout Blues! - 2012 Lockout Part 2 [UPD: AGREEMENT REACHED!]

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11-28-2012, 01:01 PM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Perhaps reading between the lines here, but given the Jets are opposed to carrying on this lockout to a lengthy extent, does it appear obvious to anyone that the Jets organization view this fiasco as there is a deal to be made now given the context of what is currently being debated between Owners/Players? I think so.

For those who say (and I am not taking sides here, just using it as a point of discussion) "Keep on going as long as you need to [owners], TNSE will be better for it". Will they? maybe so, but if they're opposed to carrying on too much longer with this lockout, they must be content with where they believe a deal will fall given what the 2-sides are bickering over today, I would think, going by those quotes above.

I wonder how many owners feel this way? I would guess many. It seems ludicrous that Bettman only needs what? 8 owners to side with him in order to pass or decline something, when there is a 30 team/owner pool here.

If a majority of the owners feel the same way as this article is saying the Jets organization feels, surely at some point here they would demand a deal be made. But, can majority rule over guys like Jacobs and co.? You would think so, but who knows.
I think there's a deal to be made but until the NHLPA actually brings a realistic, no poison pill, offer to the table, what is the league supposed to do?

Ultimately it's Fehr playing the end game here. He has no truck in this at all. I honestly don't believe the man gives one damn about hockey, NHL or otherwise. So he actually does have leverage though not as much as I think he thinks he does.

If the NHLPA and by association Fehr actually came to the table with a fully linked proposal I'm of the opinion that the NHL would give up quite a bit. I'm sure the stepdown from 57-50 would be relatively gradual, I'm sure there would be a make whole offer that held appeal for the players and I'm sure the league would yield on some contracting issues and revenue sharing. The deal is there. What I'm not confident in is that the NHLPA/Fehr have any intent of offering up a fully linked proposal.

On the owners side I'm quite comfortable with the notion that there are three groups of owners: 1. the owners that are bleeding money and cannot survive without some dramatic steps borne on the backs of the players 2. groups that are making money hand over fist and are unhappy but will go either way 3. the moderates, like the Jets who are in the borderline group and need to maintain momentum and see the lockout as being as damaging as it may be helpful.

I am one of those guys that has said I'm on the owners side if it helps the Jets long term survival. But maybe with a Jets representative speaking up they are feeling an impact now they believe to be serious. That causes me concern because ultimately what I want is TNSE to be successful because that is all that will affect the future of the Jets in Winnipeg. Whatever those conditions are is what I'm supportive of. If that happens to be yielding NOW to some player issues, so be it to get a deal done.

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11-28-2012, 01:06 PM
  #327
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First Bruins vs Jets game at MTS Centre should feature a "Jacobs sucks!" chant. Make it loud enough to get on Sportscentre.

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11-28-2012, 01:07 PM
  #328
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I just find it interesting because as the article stats, Jacobs "is use to hearing what he wants to hear", and him and Snider seem to sit much higher then the rest- Bettman must have his work cut out for him, considering its a billionairs club I can't imagine ANY of the principle owners aren't used to "hearing what they want to hear". Snider and Jacobs may be remarkable and powerful in the common crowed, but my guess is in that boardroom the parity isn't as far off as it seems. Mind you, I suppose there's more too it then the money...

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11-28-2012, 01:07 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Perhaps reading between the lines here, but given the Jets are opposed to carrying on this lockout to a lengthy extent, does it appear obvious to anyone that the Jets organization view this fiasco as there is a deal to be made now given the context of what is currently being debated between Owners/Players? I think so.

For those who say (and I am not taking sides here, just using it as a point of discussion) "Keep on going as long as you need to [owners], TNSE will be better for it". Will they? maybe so, but if they're opposed to carrying on too much longer with this lockout, they must be content with where they believe a deal will fall given what the 2-sides are bickering over today, I would think, going by those quotes above.

I wonder how many owners feel this way? I would guess many. It seems ludicrous that Bettman only needs what? 8 owners to side with him in order to pass or decline something, when there is a 30 team/owner pool here.

If a majority of the owners feel the same way as this article is saying the Jets organization feels, surely at some point here they would demand a deal be made. But, can majority rule over guys like Jacobs and co.? You would think so, but who knows.
The reason a majority doesn't work with those owners is because they're the ones actually propping up the league with revenue. Money making owners hold more status than money losing owners (even though I question that). The Jets made money last year, but they are a new addition to the leagues revenue stream and aren't completely a proven asset. It's just how it is.

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11-28-2012, 01:11 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
I just find it interesting because as the article stats, Jacobs "is use to hearing what he wants to hear", and him and Snider seem to sit much higher then the rest- Bettman must have his work cut out for him, considering its a billionairs club I can't imagine ANY of the principle owners aren't used to "hearing what they want to hear". Snider and Jacobs may be remarkable and powerful in the common crowed, but my guess is in that boardroom the parity isn't as far off as it seems. Mind you, I suppose there's more too it then the money...
The article is written by Haggs, he's not exactly unbiased when it comes to Jacobs and is usually pretty critical of the Bruins as a whole. His columns aren't really respected by the fan base, so take what he says with a grain of salt.

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11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
The reason a majority doesn't work with those owners is because they're the ones actually propping up the league with revenue. Money making owners hold more status than money losing owners (even though I question that). The Jets made money last year, but they are a new addition to the leagues revenue stream and aren't completely a proven asset. It's just how it is.
Very true. I guess in a revenue sharing business where likely half of the teams lose money or are near the line, money talks and when it comes from at least 8 owners who really support the flow of incoming revenue sharing, I suppose their voice is quite powerful.

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11-28-2012, 02:23 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
Very true. I guess in a revenue sharing business where likely half of the teams lose money or are near the line, money talks and when it comes from at least 8 owners who really support the flow of incoming revenue sharing, I suppose their voice is quite powerful.
Like I said before, I don't like Jacobs.

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11-28-2012, 02:35 PM
  #333
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Made separate thread...

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11-28-2012, 02:38 PM
  #334
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I'm thrilled to hear that our ownership group actually wants to have a season, because it says a few things:

- Chipman loves hockey and Jets fans more than he loves money.
- the deal currently on the table is one that the Jets ownership group can live with. Seems like this whole myth of "We need this next CBA to be heavily in the favor of owners for the Jets to be successful in Winnipeg" has been debunked.
- it's further proof that some of these owners (like Jacobs) don't care about hockey at all. Jacobs makes bank off of every Celtics home game, and with that team poised to make a deep run in the playoffs this year, he's not going to miss NHL revenue at all.

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11-28-2012, 08:43 PM
  #335
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...layers-lockout

Nice interview with Ted Lindsay...wouldn't hurt if both sides started listing a little more to the elder statesmen of the game.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...r_donald_fehr/

Article on "Fehr missing Millar's message". Suggesting Fehr's main goal should be to help the NHL maximize growth/profit for all players to benefit now and in retirement. Again suggesting money already lost can never be recovered.


Last edited by KingBogo: 11-29-2012 at 06:38 AM.
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Old
12-01-2012, 11:04 AM
  #336
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It's interesting I have gotten to a point now where I kind of don't care if hockey comes back this year or at least I care away less? I rarely visit the lock out thread on the main board now?

Maybe it's that I got in a nice holiday and got away from it? maybe it's that we didn't have hockey for 16 years and the past 18 months is beginning to feel like it was a dream and now I am waking up to what life was like and I know the routine? Maybe it's because the world juniors is around the corner? Maybe it's that I know we will have hockey in our market for the long haul once the kids quit fighting?

Don't get me wrong if they get a deal signed and we salvage a season I will be thrilled but if it tanks now I kind of don't care as much as I should anymore......not sure what stage of grieving I am in but it's much more relaxing and enjoyable

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12-01-2012, 11:33 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
It's interesting I have gotten to a point now where I kind of don't care if hockey comes back this year or at least I care away less? I rarely visit the lock out thread on the main board now?

Maybe it's that I got in a nice holiday and got away from it? maybe it's that we didn't have hockey for 16 years and the past 18 months is beginning to feel like it was a dream and now I am waking up to what life was like and I know the routine? Maybe it's because the world juniors is around the corner? Maybe it's that I know we will have hockey in our market for the long haul once the kids quit fighting?

Don't get me wrong if they get a deal signed and we salvage a season I will be thrilled but if it tanks now I kind of don't care as much as I should anymore......not sure what stage of grieving I am in but it's much more relaxing and enjoyable
I agree ps241.

For me, it's HOPING now that the deal is a favorable one for smaller market teams, so they are financially better off moving forward, AND a favorable draft lottery that helps us grab an even higher pick than we would have if the Jets had played this season (top 5, or so).

I honestly believe that 2013 will be a significant draft for the Jets, starting with an impact player with their first pick. There are a few holes still to fill, and if they can grab an impact or even a franchise-type player in this draft (to add to Kane, Bogo, Scheif, Trouba, Burmi, etc), then the Jets are that much closer to a SC contender.

But, whenever hockey starts again, my family and i will be at MTSC with our Jets jerseys, hats, touques, scarfs, mitts, etc. on - and cheering on our favorite team.

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12-01-2012, 11:47 AM
  #338
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ps241: I can't bring myself to visit the BoH threads anymore either. Can't do the up/down mood swings, and the discussions are mostly circular. I just watch tweets from reputable follows, and go from there.

I love having this amount of time to follow OHL, NCAA, etc. I used to watch OHL before the Jets came back (live and on TV), but it was very much less involving than it is now, with NHL prospects that I actually care to follow in the mix.

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12-01-2012, 12:10 PM
  #339
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I think I've come to accept that the season may actually be cancelled.

I have started following the IceCaps and our prospects in junior.

I'll be supporting the Jets again once the NHL returns.

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12-01-2012, 12:33 PM
  #340
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yeah, when this thread goes dark for a few days in a row, you just know a lot of us have lockout burnout
...I'm at the point where it won't bother me if we lose the season as long as it is a favourable CBA for the Jets long term,,, and I hope the players end up severely regretting their stupidity, financially

in the meantime, I'm filling a lot of the 3 hours 3 times a week I'd be watching the Jets playing my guitars, and maybe by the end of the year I'll actually improve a little bit

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12-02-2012, 02:40 AM
  #341
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http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...of-lockout-cox


Quote:
Seven years ago, the NHL and the NHL Players’ Association finally eased that embarrassing pension burden by establishing a supplemental Senior Benefit Plan for players 65 years of age and older.

But when the current collective bargaining agreement with the league expired Sept. 15, so too did the Senior Benefit. Now, with the next payment due in January and no end in sight to the current lockout, more than 300 vulnerable former NHLers or their surviving widows have been left in limbo.

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12-02-2012, 07:58 AM
  #342
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And the NHL and NHL PA will not be losing a moments sleep .....however it should be a race now to see which side can take advantage of the situation to blame the other one for this........hopeless

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12-02-2012, 09:04 AM
  #343
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>> For every season played, former players over the age of 65 receive $1,380 annually. The plan was conceived in 2004 by former players Pat Flatley, Ted Lindsay, Brian Conacher and Glenn Healy, and the league and players union agreed to each contribute $1 million per year.

“I didn’t know about the situation of many of these former players until I retired, and I’m quite disappointed in myself for not knowing,” said Flatley. “The equity of every team in the league was built on their backs.”

In 2008, then NHLPA boss Paul Kelly convinced both sides to increase their annual contributions to $2 million each.

“Many of the older players and widows are reliant upon these monies as their sole source of support,” said Kelly. “These were the trailblazers in our game who were paid very modest sums for their efforts.”

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the Senior Player Benefit “has to be sorted out.”

“We intend to do the right thing,” Bettman told the Star.

NHLPA spokesman Jonathan Weatherdon said in an email “no one on either side has suggested changing this provision, nor has it been discussed.”

Those vague words resolve nothing. So hundreds of former players and widows wait, not knowing when the next cheque might arrive. <<


wow, I wasn't aware of this, if this plan somehow gets cut or these former players aren't 'made whole' as a result of this lockout, that would be a disgusting shame..
...obviously both sides look bad on this, but it ticks me off that the current players supposedly care more about doing the right thing for future NHL'ers, when maybe they should be equally as concerned about these guys that paved the way and helped establish a players association and eventually grow it to the point that enables them to get to the ridiculous earnings level they're at now, FFS

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12-02-2012, 09:44 AM
  #344
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I really wish they would just play already. My wife got me the Jets channel as part of our Telus satellite channel

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12-02-2012, 01:51 PM
  #345
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For the first time, I truly believe the season will be canceled. I find it unfathomable that the players didn't learn from last time.

If they don't fully intend to jump into the unknown and decertify then they are complete fools in my books. Not that decertification will end up being good for them, but if that's not their endgame they just threw away millions of dollars for nothing.

I spent a lot of time focusing my anger on the players but I am so over it. I just feel bad for the people who work in the industry and are getting laid off and hours cut because a bunch of rich guys can't decide how to divvy the cash cow.

I also feel very sorry for myself because I really miss the NHL. I play a lot of hockey, but there is nothing like the anticipation of the game, the stats watching, the talk about the team around here. It's such a void in the winter not to have it.

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12-02-2012, 04:22 PM
  #346
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Interesting: they're going to go ahead with the Players - Owners meeting, with a handful of owners being represented:

Quote:
Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

I believe it's already been reported elsewhere, but 6 owners are: Jacobs, Edwards, Burkle, Chipman, Vinik, Tannenbaum.
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...60245159706624

No news yet on who the players are, but it's good to see a variety of owners from various economic spectrums represented, including the Jets' Chipman.

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12-02-2012, 04:29 PM
  #347
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Go Chips Go!

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12-02-2012, 04:49 PM
  #348
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Go Chips Go!
Agree! The teams represented are: TB, Wpg, Bos, Tor, Cgy, Pitt. Good mix of teams.

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12-02-2012, 05:20 PM
  #349
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Less than 3 months until start of Blue Jays spring training! If the Jays come back before hockey does, then that is just sad and stupid.

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12-02-2012, 06:12 PM
  #350
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Interesting: they're going to go ahead with the Players - Owners meeting, with a handful of owners being represented:



https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...60245159706624

No news yet on who the players are, but it's good to see a variety of owners from various economic spectrums represented, including the Jets' Chipman.
Agreed.
It'd be crazy to expect much, given the history of this mess, but there is still a faint glimmer of hope.
My take on this has been that the most damaging factor in all of this has been the demonization of the owners group by Fehr and selected media sources. If you have been led to believe they (owners) are a bunch of money-grubbing crooks out to screw the players, it is difficult to make concessions. Presumably, if the owners simply get to tell their story and explain their business position, face to face face, it will become harder for the players to maintain a position so damaging to their interests, for the sake of principle. It's hard to see Chipman as the face of evil and that likely applies to most who will be in the room.
There needs to be some compromise on both sides, obviously, but the risks of not settling very soon are heavily skewed toward the players.

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