HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Miikka Kiprusoff

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-01-2012, 04:57 PM
  #76
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,880
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Do you evaluate Kiprusoff's value superior to Luongo one?

(my personal opinion on the question is: it will depends on the outcome of the lockout and the next CBA. Doing the trade now would be a gamble.)
I believe they are similar skilled goalies so Lou gets the edge in value as he is younger but he is signed until he is well over 40 which decrease his value. If it was the same cap hit and both on short deals I would do it but not with Luo's contract.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 05:03 PM
  #77
palindrom
Registered User
 
palindrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
I believe they are similar skilled goalies so Lou gets the edge in value as he is younger but he is signed until he is well over 40 which decrease his value. If it was the same cap hit and both on short deals I would do it but not with Luo's contract.
Thats kinda why i think we need to wait for the next CBA to have a better idea.

Just imagine a new clause like.... the contract are no longer Guarantee ? (Or a variation on the amnesty clause, it could be one contract every 2 years, or something like that).

Then all players with long term contract would see their value instantly increased as the risk of their contract would be diminished.

Even a player like Gomez would go from a greatly negative value to zero value (UFA) what an increase of value!

palindrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 07:13 PM
  #78
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,880
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Thats kinda why i think we need to wait for the next CBA to have a better idea.

Just imagine a new clause like.... the contract are no longer Guarantee ? (Or a variation on the amnesty clause, it could be one contract every 2 years, or something like that).

Then all players with long term contract would see their value instantly increased as the risk of their contract would be diminished.

Even a player like Gomez would go from a greatly negative value to zero value (UFA) what an increase of value!
While it could happen I don't see it happening at all (no way players give up guaranteed money). Until that is in place I would take Kipper over Lou however if there was a 3 way trade, where another team takes Lou Van get Kipper and Calgary gets young assets it would make sense to me.


Last edited by TheHudlinator: 12-01-2012 at 07:36 PM.
TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 07:35 PM
  #79
InfinityIggy
Inflammatory Poster
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,933
vCash: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
How about Olsen/Beach + Crawford

1 yr of Kipper at his age/salary is not worth McNeill or 1st let alone both

And would rather take a chance on a young guy at higher price then 1 yr of Kipper at same high price
Doesn't really help Calgary much at all, also Kipper, if you resign him should be good for atleast 2, more likely 3 more years.

InfinityIggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 03:12 AM
  #80
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
How about Olsen/Beach + Crawford

1 yr of Kipper at his age/salary is not worth McNeill or 1st let alone both

And would rather take a chance on a young guy at higher price then 1 yr of Kipper at same high price
What about Beach + Olsen and rights to Salak

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 10:47 AM
  #81
supert
Registered User
 
supert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary83 View Post
Calgary can do so much better then returning a player like Reimer or Colborne in a deal for Kipper. I know a Flames fan suggested that but get off the Toronto hype train. Colborne still has alot of his game that needs to be worked on/put together before he's in the NHL.
Yes . As an Oiler fan , I alway loved Kipper, game . I would take him over any other goalie in the NHL right now .(as a short term fix) Kipper is a Classy guy ,never seen him complain if a guy makes a mistake . Just what a young team needs . Plus Kipper keeps Calgary in a lot of games that they have no business being in ,maybe with our offence we would win them .
What would you want from the Oilers . None of big 5 would be going anywhere

supert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:05 AM
  #82
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by supert View Post
Yes . As an Oiler fan , I alway loved Kipper, game . I would take him over any other goalie in the NHL right now .(as a short term fix) Kipper is a Classy guy ,never seen him complain if a guy makes a mistake . Just what a young team needs . Plus Kipper keeps Calgary in a lot of games that they have no business being in ,maybe with our offence we would win them .
What would you want from the Oilers . None of big 5 would be going anywhere
Kipper would be a nice fit on the Oilers, would never happen! No way I'd want to face him that often, it would take an overpayment. Hartikainen + Musil...or something similar. Probably not worth it for the Oilers

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:22 AM
  #83
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,880
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
What about Beach + Olsen and rights to Salak
No you still aren't giving us something we need.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:34 AM
  #84
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
No you still aren't giving us something we need.
Beach will be a solid 3rd liner, with size, a mean streak and an offensive upside. Olsen will be second pairing and Salak is putting up a .940 in the SEL this year. Size, skill and youth at forward, defense and goal. It's not an immediate return but if the Flames move Kipper that won't be a concern

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:38 AM
  #85
Ashasx
Registered User
 
Ashasx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,758
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
Beach will be a solid 3rd liner, with size, a mean streak and an offensive upside. Olsen will be second pairing and Salak is putting up a .940 in the SEL this year. Size, skill and youth at forward, defense and goal.
You don't trade Kipper for bottom 6 futures and a future backup AHLer. That doesn't make sense at all. You don't make a trade for the sake of making a trade. You can find any of these pieces in free agency. You can even find them now.

Everybody wants the Flames to rebuild, but when you get assets like this in return, there's no point. This doesn't help the Flames in anyway going forward and it simply makes them much worse now.

There are teams around the league that have had struggling goaltending for years. You can bet they'd give up much more than all this junk for an elite goaltender. Otherwise, why trade him?

Ashasx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:46 AM
  #86
Shawnathon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 320
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Thats kinda why i think we need to wait for the next CBA to have a better idea.

Just imagine a new clause like.... the contract are no longer Guarantee ? (Or a variation on the amnesty clause, it could be one contract every 2 years, or something like that).

Then all players with long term contract would see their value instantly increased as the risk of their contract would be diminished.

Even a player like Gomez would go from a greatly negative value to zero value (UFA) what an increase of value!
Everything in this post is so farfetched. That would never in a million years happen because it goes against every law of a basic contract.

Shawnathon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:06 PM
  #87
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
You don't trade Kipper for bottom 6 futures and a future backup AHLer. That doesn't make sense at all. You don't make a trade for the sake of making a trade. You can find any of these pieces in free agency. You can even find them now.

Everybody wants the Flames to rebuild, but when you get assets like this in return, there's no point. This doesn't help the Flames in anyway going forward and it simply makes them much worse now.

There are teams around the league that have had struggling goaltending for years. You can bet they'd give up much more than all this junk for an elite goaltender. Otherwise, why trade him?
Disagree, a strong bottom 6 core wins SC's. Top end talent comes via draft during the rebuild. No ones trading top end talent for a 36 year old goalie, on a one year contract, elite or not. The other option is resigning, letting him retire a Flame and receive nothing for him.

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:07 PM
  #88
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,880
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
Beach will be a solid 3rd liner, with size, a mean streak and an offensive upside. Olsen will be second pairing and Salak is putting up a .940 in the SEL this year. Size, skill and youth at forward, defense and goal. It's not an immediate return but if the Flames move Kipper that won't be a concern
Yes but we have Ramo and Irving both ready for the nhl there isn't room for Salak to get a chance. So we a getting a solid 3rd liner in Beach we have plenty of prospects that project to that not to mention how is it is to sign a player like, so no none of that is what we need. We need skill and picks.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:32 PM
  #89
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Yes but we have Ramo and Irving both ready for the nhl there isn't room for Salak to get a chance. So we a getting a solid 3rd liner in Beach we have plenty of prospects that project to that not to mention how is it is to sign a player like, so no none of that is what we need. We need skill and picks.
I'm really starting to question Irving and I doubt Ramo comes over, unless he's a clear cut starter. Not sure the Hawks even own Salaks rights anymore but the kids 25 and putting up great numbers this year. He's a wild card, but then again a top end talent like Kadri would be too. Was just curious how flames fans would feel about it.

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:41 PM
  #90
Ashasx
Registered User
 
Ashasx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,758
vCash: 500
Buddy, you don't trade Kiprusoff when a "wild card" like Salak is the main piece coming back. You've got HF syndrome big time.

Ashasx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:42 PM
  #91
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,880
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
I'm really starting to question Irving and I doubt Ramo comes over, unless he's a clear cut starter. Not sure the Hawks even own Salaks rights anymore but the kids 25 and putting up great numbers this year. He's a wild card, but then again a top end talent like Kadri would be too. Was just curious how flames fans would feel about it.
If its not talent (like Kadri) or high picks no point in moving Kipper. Irving is following Crawford's path to nhl if it continues he will be decent but nothing spectacular but gives us time to find a great young goalie. I think if Cervenka comes over Ramo will to as he wants to be the best and he can only do that in the nhl.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 12:45 PM
  #92
LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Kipper is still a fantastic goalie and id be so sad to see him go.

Having said that. He is 36 years old, he only has MAX 4 years left, more likely 3.

Of those, how many will be in that "top-10 goalie range"? Maybe 2? He also has a fairly large cap hit, meaning wherever he goes, we will likely see salary coming back.

So with all the considered im going to play off the Toronto dialog so far in this thread:

To Toronto:

Kiprusoff
Nemisz

To Calgary:

Colborne
Reimer
2nd 2014
Conditional 2014 3rd (Toronto makes it to and past, the 1st round of the playoffs).

Toronto gets their goalie, and a good NHL ready wing prospect in Nemisz (should be a great 3rd liner, good on the PK).

Calgary gets a great young C prospect in Colborne and Reimer to compete with Irving and Ramo for starter.

Calgary also gets a 2nd rounder, which will likely land in the 40-50 range, depending on just how well Toronto does next year.

Edited: Added conditional.
if we give you reimer can we somehow work bozak into this?

LEAFANFORLIFE23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 01:48 PM
  #93
CommanderShepard15
Eberle=Clutch
 
CommanderShepard15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,288
vCash: 500
Kipper back to san jose?

Something around one of our younger goalies and a d prospect?

CommanderShepard15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 02:05 PM
  #94
MessierII
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
Kipper back to san jose?

Something around one of our younger goalies and a d prospect?
There's an idea

MessierII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 02:07 PM
  #95
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,880
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
Kipper back to san jose?

Something around one of our younger goalies and a d prospect?
I would probably want Demelo +pick

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 02:31 PM
  #96
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thLinePlug View Post
Kipper back to san jose?

Something around one of our younger goalies and a d prospect?
Kipper+Nemisz for Niemi+Demelo/Abeltshauser

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 03:20 PM
  #97
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,880
vCash: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
Kipper+Nemisz for Niemi+Demelo/Abeltshauser
How does Niemi help he is 29 will be 30 next season that doesn't help a rebuild that is a patch.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 03:43 PM
  #98
ALI
Registered User
 
ALI's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,233
vCash: 500
for Kipper

Tor: Colbourn, Finn and 2nd

Chi: Olsen, Denaut and 2nd

i rather have the Tor package

ALI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 04:03 PM
  #99
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
How does Niemi help he is 29 will be 30 next season that doesn't help a rebuild that is a patch.
Semi-permanent patch, 7 years younger than Kipper and legit replacement. Kippers better, that's why the sharks do it, need to win now. Niemi's better than the alternatives and we get another defensive prospect

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 04:21 PM
  #100
Flames rebuilder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx View Post
Buddy, you don't trade Kiprusoff when a "wild card" like Salak is the main piece coming back. You've got HF syndrome big time.
Beach and Olsen are solid prospects, I'd rather have Salak than a second. Players are not collectables, their value does not increase with age. Holding on to all your favorites, until they retire is almost as bad of asset management as trading top end prospects for veterans, in the twilight years of their careers

Flames rebuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.