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Which trade was worse, Kessel to TOR or Carter to CLB?

View Poll Results: Which trade was worse?
Phil Kessel to Toronto 182 57.05%
Jeff Carter to Columbus 125 39.18%
Both are equally bad and I can't choose just one 12 3.76%
Voters: 319. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:04 PM
  #276
Atomos2
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
You didn't answer my questions.

"Stardom" is different than "not busting," dont put words in my mouth. For what reason are you more "skeptical" of Hamilton and Seguin than thinking theyll be "stars?" Was it Seguins 67 points as a 19/20 year old or Hamiltons CHL D man of the year? Both have improved immensely since they became part of the Bruins organization too.

Like the Leafs poster said above, some (including you it seems), are holding onto this notion that Hamilton could "still be a bust" theoretically. Do you REALLY think hes going to bust? Lol. I could see him not turning into a franchise d man, but he most certainly has the skillset to be a solid top four defensman. Hell, I think Riellys bust potential is along the same lines as Hamiltons.
I agree with you that Hamilton is likely not a bust, but you probably wouldn't want to use CHL defenceman of the year as the prime evidence for your argument and should stick with his impressive stats. CHL dman of the year has to be awarded every year and some of the past winners haven't been all that great in the NHL. But I understand what you're saying.

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Old
11-29-2012, 02:50 PM
  #277
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
I agree with you that Hamilton is likely not a bust, but you probably wouldn't want to use CHL defenceman of the year as the prime evidence for your argument and should stick with his impressive stats. CHL dman of the year has to be awarded every year and some of the past winners haven't been all that great in the NHL. But I understand what you're saying.
I've listed my arguments for Hamilton many times, CHL d man of the year was just an all-encompassing argument haha, I know what you're saying though, i wouldnt use that normally.

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11-29-2012, 10:01 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
The funny part is everyone says Hamilton is the best D prospect and already a franchise defenceman. If that is true, playing with a guy like Rielly should make things easier for the both of them. Yet, if people start blaming Rielly for mistakes, that just proves Hamilton doesn't make the guys around him better, which a "franchise defenceman" probably should be doing.

It'll be funny to see how they'll justify that.
Kind of a strange Canadian fan reduced to hoping that a D-man will play badly to win an internet joust.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:12 PM
  #279
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Ever heard of Eric Lindros?
Forsberg went to Colorado though so Lindros wasn't the best in that deal.

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Old
11-29-2012, 10:30 PM
  #280
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Kind of a strange Canadian fan reduced to hoping that a D-man will play badly to win an internet joust.
Who says I'm a Canadian fan I might go to University in Canada but I could have been born in the states.

I don't think any indication of hoping for failure was present in my comment. Especially when his failure could result in Rielly's failure. It was more the reaction of fans in the circumstance of failure. You might be reading too much into my comment and trying to make oceans out of puddles. Just saying it'd be funny too see the justification of Hamilton's failure by fans if it happens.

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:08 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by CoachBadkitten View Post
Forsberg went to Colorado though so Lindros wasn't the best in that deal.
That's hindsight talking.

Let's wait 4-5 years for these deals.

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:10 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Who says I'm a Canadian fan I might go to University in Canada but I could have been born in the states.

(...)
That Canadian flag below your name...

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:11 AM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBadkitten View Post
Forsberg went to Colorado though so Lindros wasn't the best in that deal.
Debatable. I'd take prime/non-concussed Lindros over Forsberg 10 times out of 10.

To answer the OP, Carter to CBJ was worse. Kessel is Toronto's best player and signed a decent deal there, whereas Carter was gone within half a season.

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Old
11-30-2012, 12:35 AM
  #284
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
That Canadian flag below your name...
It's a lie!! lol

I hope you realized I was joking and you were responding with a joke. If you weren't...

= sarcasm

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Old
12-02-2012, 02:36 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
I think everyone agrees that Hamilton >>> Zibanajed. Sorry Ottawa.
At least we got one of them, too early to tell anyway.

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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
It's a lot closer then you're making it out to be.
It really isn't.

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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
I'm sorry but Ottawa does not scare me, not now or the future. Season series of Leafs vs Ottawa was 3 games a piece. They have a couple of top end guys but I don't see the depth, especially on D. Plus their prospect pool is a bit overrated.
Hahaha, we have one of the best up and coming defenses in the league as well as one of the best forward prospect groups in the league. Not to mention an established 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th line center positions as well as an abundance of bottom 6 forwards and cap space that can give us a change to land 2 high-end free agents.

What does Toronto have on Ottawa? Nothing, LOL. We literally have you beat in every position, forwards, defense and goaltending. Now and in the future.

Our second liner would be your team's first liner.

P.S. I forgot Lehner, you should get to know him. On second thought, I wouldn't get near that guy.

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Old
12-02-2012, 02:56 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
At least we got one of them, too early to tell anyway.



It really isn't.



Hahaha, we have one of the best up and coming defenses in the league as well as one of the best forward prospect groups in the league. Not to mention an established 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th line center positions as well as an abundance of bottom 6 forwards and cap space that can give us a change to land 2 high-end free agents.

What does Toronto have on Ottawa? Nothing, LOL. We literally have you beat in every position, forwards, defense and goaltending. Now and in the future.

Our second liner would be your team's first liner.

P.S. I forgot Lehner, you should get to know him. On second thought, I wouldn't get near that guy.
Delusions of grandeur.

I guess this lockout is the best thing for you, cuz you don't have to worry about coming back down to reality. You can keep on living in your fantasy world where Ottawa are Stanley Cup champs for the next eight years because they are the only team in the league that improves while every other team remains the exact same. Congratulations.

Enough said.


Last edited by Atomos2: 12-02-2012 at 03:15 AM.
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Old
12-02-2012, 08:44 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Why do Leaf fans have to act like no other good move was possible if they didn't trade for Kessel? Besides, if you want to play your little game, then ok. If the Leafs committed to tanking right before 09-10 then it figures they would trade Tomas Kaberle when he still had a lot of value. I bet they get a prospect a lot better than Joe Colborne and a pick better than 30th.
The Leafs got tremendous value for Kaberle. Most thought he would return a second rounder at most. It was a great trade.

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12-02-2012, 08:58 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
To be fair no one has ever included Brandon Saad and Michael Paliotta as being apart of the Kessel trade. So no matter how you want to spin it and etc, they had nothing to do with it.
I just did and tons of people have.

If anything is spin, it's denying that those picks were traded as part of the ploy to get Phil Kessel (especially since Burke himself stated that was exactly what he did).

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12-02-2012, 09:02 AM
  #289
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All three of those options are bad. Neither trade was terrible.

Boston -Toronto trade was definitely edge boston, but toronto is still pretty happy with the return.

Columbus - pHilly trade was definitely edge philly but columbus worked it out okay in the end.

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12-02-2012, 09:09 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
I just did and tons of people have.

If anything is spin, it's denying that those picks were traded as part of the ploy to get Phil Kessel (especially since Burke himself stated that was exactly what he did).
So are those prospects future stars now lol.

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12-02-2012, 09:43 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
It really isn't.
It really is, despite what you may like to believe. Both are still bubble teams if a season starts up.

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12-02-2012, 09:54 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
So are those prospects future stars now lol.
Brandon Saad is #37 in Hockey's Future's Top 50 Prospect Rankings, so it seems pretty likely.

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12-02-2012, 09:59 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Mansfield View Post
All three of those options are bad. Neither trade was terrible.

Boston -Toronto trade was definitely edge boston, but toronto is still pretty happy with the return.

Columbus - pHilly trade was definitely edge philly but columbus worked it out okay in the end.
Yeah but that's looking at it in hindsight. At the time of the deal, I know as a Flyers fan that we ripped off CBJ. Carter wasn't going to excel with no linemates and Rick Nash wouldn't help Carter do any better (Carter's game is shooting the puck a lot).

At the time of these deals, the Philly-CBJ one had to be worse. Toronto and Boston looked bad initially but we knew Toronto was getting their best player from it.

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12-02-2012, 10:02 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
Brandon Saad is #37 in Hockey's Future's Top 50 Prospect Rankings, so it seems pretty likely.
While I'm not disputing any ranking for Saad or any player in particular, HF's prospect rankings are horrible.

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12-02-2012, 10:08 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Burke can admit he lost the trade.. yet Toronto fans can't.

Apparently now even we have to realize that the trade wasn't Kessel for Seguin, Hamilton, and Knight but actually Kessel, Gardiner, Lupul, Rielly, Finn, Percy and anything else positive in the Leafs organization for Seguin, Hamilton, and Knight.
Give it a rest... your leaf hate is ridiculous. You're conveniently ignore when people start including separate trades (like a 2nd and 3rd for TOR's 2nd back) but jump at any chance to either bash a leafs trade or leaf fans for doing the same things other fans are doing.

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12-02-2012, 10:16 AM
  #296
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While I'm not disputing any ranking for Saad or any player in particular, HF's prospect rankings are horrible.
#30 Hockey Prospectus
#40 The Scouting Report
#14 The Hockey News

Seems pretty accepted that Saad has the potential to be a star.

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12-02-2012, 10:27 AM
  #297
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Easily Jeff Carter to Columbus.

Toronto has an 80 pt game breaking winger to show for their loss of a franchise center and potential top pair d-man.

Columbus has Jack '-85' Johnson to show for the loss of two legitimate young impact players with the ability to grow.

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12-02-2012, 10:30 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
#30 Hockey Prospectus
#40 The Scouting Report
#14 The Hockey News

Seems pretty accepted that Saad has the potential to be a star.
Like I said... I wasn't disputing anything about Saad. I'm just saying going off of what HF rankings say is far from a good way to judge a prospect pool

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12-02-2012, 11:08 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by n00bxQb View Post
Brandon Saad is #37 in Hockey's Future's Top 50 Prospect Rankings, so it seems pretty likely.
They had Joe Colburne around that last year. Did that impress you?

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12-02-2012, 11:16 AM
  #300
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It's really not as hard to judge as people are making it out to be.

CBJ v PHI

The Premise: The Bluejackets sent a former 7th overall draft pick capable of netting 50 pts. a season (proven) along with an 8th overall draft pick for a top-six center that nearly led the league in scoring a while ago.

The Result: The Bluejackets received a disgruntled player that demanded out after just 39 games, and managed a disappointing 25 points - roughly the same production they were getting out of Jakub Voracek at his best. The draft pick by pure chance then turned into Sean Couturier who had a very good rookie season, shouldering the bulk of his team's defensive responsibilities.

EDGE PHI
(177 games/36 goals/90 points to 39 games/15 goals/25 points)


TOR v BOS

The Premise: Toronto, starved for a star forward of their own, sent two (top-5) first-round draft picks to Boston for a former 5th overall selection, proven capable of netting 30 goals a season.

The Result: Phil Kessel has been one of the most consistent goal-scorers around the league, managing a minimum of 30 goals over the last three seasons, and averaging a total of 67 points a season. This past season, Phil Kessel and his linemate Joffrey Lupul each managed to close out the season at a PPG pace, though Lupul only played 66 games. Through two seasons in boston, Seguin has averaged 20 goals, 45 points, has never topped 30 goals, and was scratched for multiple games during Boston's trip to the Stanley Cup Finals. ...Doug Hamilton has yet to play a game in the NHL, AHL, or ECHL.

EDGE TOR
(234 games/99 goals/201 points to 175 games/45 goals/99 points)


--------------------

I'd say the CJB trade was worse because of what they got. If someone wants to evaluate the Johnson trade as a standalone, that's their prerogative, but as of today they paid through their teeth for a flop. The Maple Leafs, one could argue, won their trade handily until either Seguin steps up or Hamilton develops into something special.

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