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Alex Galchenyuk Thread 6.0 - "Gally Got Backhand" Edition

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12-02-2012, 07:52 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by x74Pacioretty74x View Post
So I wasnt the only one who screamed really loudly when Howson selected Murray? I went off and started running around my house screaming "WE GOT GALLY, **** YOU LEAF FANS".......
imagine if we had selected someone like Reinhart or, worse, like RDS made us believe the day before the draft, Tevarainen.

jumping around like crazy and then.. WTF... lol

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12-02-2012, 07:57 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I still would have taken Yakupov at #1 due to some of the uncertainty surrounding Galchenyuk at the time but as of right now I prefer Galchenyuk. I am very happy that Timmins saw the Galchenyuk/Grigorenko debate in the same light as me and some others on this board although it is funny how many people here were against taking Galchenyuk at #3 are all of the sudden fans of his since he was a 16 year old......
it's easy to say 5 months later. Nobody doubted his talent. It's just that he was a huge risk having missed an entire year. Grigorenko was the safest pick in those circumstances. Things have turned out for the best, but it could have gone the other way around.

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12-02-2012, 08:23 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
it's easy to say 5 months later. Nobody doubted his talent. It's just that he was a huge risk having missed an entire year. Grigorenko was the safest pick in those circumstances. Things have turned out for the best, but it could have gone the other way around.
IMO Grigorenko was anything but a safe pick. He is very talented but he is not a piece of a championship puzzle. I believe he will put up good regular season stats but will be easily neutralized in the playoffs. The safest forward after Yakupov would easily have been Forsberg.

The Montreal Canadiens are supposed to be a team that wins championships and it is their responsibility to draft players who have the drive and work ethic to do exactly that. Galchenyuk was a no brainer for myself and apparently was also for Timmins as Alex has all of the intangibles to go with top end talent. Grigorenko slipped out of the top ten just like I said he would and was ridiculed for saying as much. I am not crazy about the Leafs getting Reilly either as he was the next best BPA after Galchenyuk.

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12-02-2012, 08:35 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
IMO Grigorenko was anything but a safe pick. He is very talented but he is not a piece of a championship puzzle. I believe he will put up good regular season stats but will be easily neutralized in the playoffs. The safest forward after Yakupov would easily have been Forsberg.

The Montreal Canadiens are supposed to be a team that wins championships and it is their responsibility to draft players who have the drive and work ethic to do exactly that. Galchenyuk was a no brainer for myself and apparently was also for Timmins as Alex has all of the intangibles to go with top end talent. Grigorenko slipped out of the top ten just like I said he would and was ridiculed for saying as much. I am not crazy about the Leafs getting Reilly either as he was the next best BPA after Galchenyuk.
About Forsberg : I think he's a safe pick in the sense he WILL be a solid NHLer. However its doubtful he has even an ounce of the upside a guy like Galchenyuk (or Yakupov) has.

I see Forsberg as a good 50-60pt two way forward, which is great, but not something you want with a top pick. Gally, now showing his injury is far behind him, is going to be much better.

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12-02-2012, 08:56 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
imagine if we had selected someone like Reinhart or, worse, like RDS made us believe the day before the draft, Tevarainen.

jumping around like crazy and then.. WTF... lol
I don't think I need to tell anyone the immense sigh of relief I had when Columbus took Murray. As badly as I wanted Galchenyuk, I wanted Murray even less. If Gally was gone and we took Murray, I would've puked everywhere.

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12-02-2012, 08:56 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
I also remember draft night, how Galchenyuk's stock was rapidly rising before the draft, and looking at people's mock drafts to see if they thought Columbus might consider taking him at #2 or reading news to see if the Leafs would try and move up.

I think it would have been a big blow if the Habs, having their highest pick in two decades, were 'forced' to take a defenseman because the draft was extremely defense-heavy, or use the pick on a forward that might not warrant the #3 pick.

I think most would agree, there was the feeling that the Habs were going for Galchenyuk.
I had the feeling going into the draft that Rielly was the darkhorse pick if both Yakupov and Galchenyuk were gone. While there definitely was a growing feeling that the top 3 picks were going to go down as they did, I don't recall there being any clear consensus on who would be #3 on the Habs list after G & Y. I think there were at least seven names that would come up in that scenario -- in no order of popularity, Grigorenko, Teravainen, Forsberg, Reinhart, Dumba, Murray, and Rielly.

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12-02-2012, 08:59 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
About Forsberg : I think he's a safe pick in the sense he WILL be a solid NHLer. However its doubtful he has even an ounce of the upside a guy like Galchenyuk (or Yakupov) has.

I see Forsberg as a good 50-60pt two way forward, which is great, but not something you want with a top pick. Gally, now showing his injury is far behind him, is going to be much better.
I agree. That's always the impression i got from Forsberg. A very solid player with good skills and size, but missing that something special that makes a good player a great player.

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12-02-2012, 09:26 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
IMO Grigorenko was anything but a safe pick. He is very talented but he is not a piece of a championship puzzle. I believe he will put up good regular season stats but will be easily neutralized in the playoffs. The safest forward after Yakupov would easily have been Forsberg.

The Montreal Canadiens are supposed to be a team that wins championships and it is their responsibility to draft players who have the drive and work ethic to do exactly that. Galchenyuk was a no brainer for myself and apparently was also for Timmins as Alex has all of the intangibles to go with top end talent. Grigorenko slipped out of the top ten just like I said he would and was ridiculed for saying as much. I am not crazy about the Leafs getting Reilly either as he was the next best BPA after Galchenyuk.
Exactly, Grigs was hardly a safe pick. I wanted Gally and very glad we got him.

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12-02-2012, 09:31 AM
  #359
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Grigorenko wasn't a 'safe' pick with all the controversy surrounding him (whether warranted or not), but he was a consensus top 5 pick in most of the pre-draft reports out there - I would argue that he was definitely safe to continue producing in juniors. Forsberg was the safest pick.

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12-02-2012, 09:44 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
it's easy to say 5 months later. Nobody doubted his talent. It's just that he was a huge risk having missed an entire year. Grigorenko was the safest pick in those circumstances. Things have turned out for the best, but it could have gone the other way around.
Wait. Stop there.

In YOUR MIND. Based on YOUR EXPERIENCE. YOUR KNOWLEDGE.

You think Galchenyuk was a risk.


Guess what? Timmins thought different. And I'm going to trust him 10 times out of 10 when it comes to evaluating young talents, and determine whether or not a young player is a risk or not.

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12-02-2012, 09:52 AM
  #361
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I agree. That's always the impression i got from Forsberg. A very solid player with good skills and size, but missing that something special that makes a good player a great player.
It is possible that he may end up with those point totals but he definitely has the upside to surpass that. I would take Forsberg over Grigorenko every day of the week as he will likely be more valuable during the playoff season. It is clear that Washington also felt this way. Atleast Forsberg is a safe bet to be a good player where there is a very strong possibility that Grigorenko will be a bad player when it really counts.


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12-02-2012, 09:59 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
it's easy to say 5 months later. Nobody doubted his talent. It's just that he was a huge risk having missed an entire year. Grigorenko was the safest pick in those circumstances. Things have turned out for the best, but it could have gone the other way around.
I said that Galchenyuk was a far better selection than Grigorenko long before the draft.....hindsight was not required.

I hope this past draft was a learning experience for many of the posters on here. Timmins loves guys who compete hard, both on and off of the ice.......it really was a no brainer who his selection would be after Yakupov and Murray were off the board.

It is funny how all of Grigorenko's pre draft fanboys disappeared after my predictions were validated. Not a peep after months of bashing and insults.

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12-02-2012, 10:02 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It is possible that he may end up with those point totals but he definitely has the upside to surpass that. I would take Forsberg over Grigorenko every day of the week as he will likely be more valuable during the playoff season. It is clear that Washington also felt this way. Atleast Forsberg is a safe bet to be a good player where there is a very strong possibility that Grigorenko will be a bad player when it really counts.
I'd go to war with Forsberg long before I ever went to war with Grigorenko.

However, if I was a struggling team trying to put people in the seats, I'd take Grigorenko. His style of play is more electric and will entrance fans during the 82 regular season games before he completely Kozlov's in the play-offs.

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12-02-2012, 10:12 AM
  #364
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I'd go to war with Forsberg long before I ever went to war with Grigorenko.

However, if I was a struggling team trying to put people in the seats, I'd take Grigorenko. His style of play is more electric and will entrance fans during the 82 regular season games before he completely Kozlov's in the play-offs.
I hear what you are saying but I believe that the star attraction theory in non traditional markets is a fallacy. It didn't do anything at all for the Thrashers........winning is the only real solution and even that doesn't guarantee much in some of these markets.

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12-02-2012, 10:12 AM
  #365
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Grigorenko was an incredible draft pick for Buffalo.

First of all, for where he was picked. Second of all, the Sabres needed high end skill more than intangibles or whatever. Third, they also got the opposite in Girgensons, who gives them all the drive they need.

Actually the Grigorenko situation shows you that with a few calculated risks you don't need to tank regularly to get potentially elite talent. It's telling that both the Habs and Leafs passed on him, not to mention the Caps and their Russian love, but Buffalo still got very lucky.

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12-02-2012, 10:17 AM
  #366
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I hear what you are saying but I believe that the star attraction theory in non traditional markets is a fallacy. It didn't do anything at all for the Thrashers........winning is the only real solution and even that doesn't guarantee much in some of these markets.
Actually I know a couple of friends in ATL who all quit on the team after Kovalchuk was dealt, what a hack job that was.

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12-02-2012, 10:30 AM
  #367
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I said that Galchenyuk was a far better selection than Grigorenko long before the draft.....hindsight was not required.

I hope this past draft was a learning experience for many of the posters on here. Timmins loves guys who compete hard, both on and off of the ice.......it really was a no brainer who his selection would be after Yakupov and Murray were off the board.

It is funny how all of Grigorenko's pre draft fanboys disappeared after my predictions were validated. Not a peep after months of bashing and insults.
I completely agree with everything you're saying. That said, once Grigorenko started falling, I would have loved to snag him. I don't know if he has it in him to be a true go-to guy when the going gets tough, but that's why he fell. If you're not banking on him to be THE guy, however, he looks to be an absolutely fantastic complementary player. If you can have a guy with that kind of skill as your team's second line centre, you've got to be thrilled, even if he does have a case of Craig Janney-itis. And if it turns out he does have some balls and can be a go-to guy when the going gets tough, you're sitting really pretty with him and Galchenyuk on your roster.

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12-02-2012, 10:35 AM
  #368
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I completely agree with everything you're saying. That said, once Grigorenko started falling, I would have loved to snag him. I don't know if he has it in him to be a true go-to guy when the going gets tough, but that's why he fell. If you're not banking on him to be THE guy, however, he looks to be an absolutely fantastic complementary player. If you can have a guy with that kind of skill as your team's second line centre, you've got to be thrilled, even if he does have a case of Craig Janney-itis. And if it turns out he does have some balls and can be a go-to guy when the going gets tough, you're sitting really pretty with him and Galchenyuk on your roster.
Or a one-two punch of Gally and Monahan or Barkov If Bergevin somehow makes this happen...

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12-02-2012, 10:40 AM
  #369
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Grigorenko was an incredible draft pick for Buffalo.

First of all, for where he was picked. Second of all, the Sabres needed high end skill more than intangibles or whatever. Third, they also got the opposite in Girgensons, who gives them all the drive they need.

Actually the Grigorenko situation shows you that with a few calculated risks you don't need to tank regularly to get potentially elite talent. It's telling that both the Habs and Leafs passed on him, not to mention the Caps and their Russian love, but Buffalo still got very lucky.
If Grigorenko ends up being an 80+ pt regular season producer who is paid at or near the max salary but disappears in the playoffs he actually has negative value if the team's goal is to win the Stanley Cup. His salary will prevent the team from adding the parts that are required to build a winner.

I see these type of players as more of a hinderance than an asset. Galchenyuk on the other hand is the type of player that will thrive under pressure because he places that pressure on himself to be the very best that he can be. When the other team targets a player like Galchenyuk during a playoff series he will fight to overcome these obstacles whereas players like Grigorenko tend to become less involved and lurk harmlessly on the perimeter. Galchenyuk pushes the play and forces defenders into making mistakes. Grigorenko is more passive where he waits for the other team to allow him to take advantage of their mistakes. Unfortunately for players like Grigorenko, these mistakes are few and far between in the playoffs. Much like Joe Thornton he may still get his power play points but will be invisible for long stretches. The fans and media in Montreal would eat him alive if they don't like his effort.......I don't foresee this being a problem with Galchenyuk.


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12-02-2012, 11:09 AM
  #370
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I would take Galchenyuk over Yakupov right now. They are both elite talents but Yakupov has a huge ego and I suspect he will be a very exciting player but he will also come with alot of headaches. Galchenyuk seems to be much more of a team player who will buy into the team concept and playing in all three zones. IMO players like Galchenyuk contribute to a team's success more than players like Yakupov. At the end of the day the reason that an NHL team such as Montreal exists is to win championships. Galchenyuk imo is a better building block towards this goal than Yakupov and at this point in their development is the better pro prospect.

I still would have taken Yakupov at #1 due to some of the uncertainty surrounding Galchenyuk at the time but as of right now I prefer Galchenyuk. I am very happy that Timmins saw the Galchenyuk/Grigorenko debate in the same light as me and some others on this board although it is funny how many people here were against taking Galchenyuk at #3 are all of the sudden fans of his since he was a 16 year old......

Just for fun:

previous stats:
GP G A PTS
68 31 52 83

Pro-rated 12/13 stats:
GP G A PTS
68 48 73 121

That is what I call progression!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
IMO Grigorenko was anything but a safe pick. He is very talented but he is not a piece of a championship puzzle. I believe he will put up good regular season stats but will be easily neutralized in the playoffs. The safest forward after Yakupov would easily have been Forsberg.

The Montreal Canadiens are supposed to be a team that wins championships and it is their responsibility to draft players who have the drive and work ethic to do exactly that. Galchenyuk was a no brainer for myself and apparently was also for Timmins as Alex has all of the intangibles to go with top end talent. Grigorenko slipped out of the top ten just like I said he would and was ridiculed for saying as much. I am not crazy about the Leafs getting Reilly either as he was the next best BPA after Galchenyuk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I said that Galchenyuk was a far better selection than Grigorenko long before the draft.....hindsight was not required.

I hope this past draft was a learning experience for many of the posters on here. Timmins loves guys who compete hard, both on and off of the ice.......it really was a no brainer who his selection would be after Yakupov and Murray were off the board.

It is funny how all of Grigorenko's pre draft fanboys disappeared after my predictions were validated. Not a peep after months of bashing and insults.

Sorry but it was funny seeing you compliment yourself on so many occasions. A lot of us wanted Galchenyuk, but its too early to actually say he is better then Grigorenko or Yakupov or Murray lets wait until they actually play in the NHL before touting our own horns.

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12-02-2012, 11:16 AM
  #371
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If Grigorenko ends up being an 80+ pt regular season producer who is paid at or near the max salary but disappears in the playoffs he actually has negative value if the team's goal is to win the Stanley Cup. His salary will prevent the team from adding the parts that are required to build a winner.

I see these type of players as more of a hinderance than an asset. Galchenyuk on the other hand is the type of player that will thrive under pressure because he places that pressure on himself to be the very best that he can be. When the other team targets a player like Galchenyuk during a playoff series he will fight to overcome these obstacles whereas players like Grigorenko tend to become less involved and lurk harmlessly on the perimeter. Galchenyuk pushes the play and forces defenders into making mistakes. Grigorenko is more passive where he waits for the other team to allow him to take advantage of their mistakes. Unfortunately for players like Grigorenko, these mistakes are few and far between in the playoffs. Much like Joe Thornton he may still get his power play points but will be invisible for long stretches. The fans and media in Montreal would eat him alive if they don't like his effort.......I don't foresee this being a problem with Galchenyuk.
Well that was my biggest concern with Grigorenko, if people even think he's faltering in the playoffs, the Montreal media will destroy him.

I don't see that problem for Galchenyuk, who seems equally comfortable in any kind of game.

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12-02-2012, 11:23 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It is possible that he may end up with those point totals but he definitely has the upside to surpass that. I would take Forsberg over Grigorenko every day of the week as he will likely be more valuable during the playoff season. It is clear that Washington also felt this way. Atleast Forsberg is a safe bet to be a good player where there is a very strong possibility that Grigorenko will be a bad player when it really counts.
But if you're Buffalo, you want Grigorenko, you already have enough two-way players, you need game-breaking talent, which Grigorenko is much more certain to fullfil than Forsberg.

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12-02-2012, 11:25 AM
  #373
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Or a one-two punch of Gally and Monahan or Barkov If Bergevin somehow makes this happen...
If the hockey gods are not nice with us at the lottery and do not give us a top5 pick, you can forget those, there's no way a team trades its pick this year.

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12-02-2012, 11:28 AM
  #374
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Well that was my biggest concern with Grigorenko, if people even think he's faltering in the playoffs, the Montreal media will destroy him.

I don't see that problem for Galchenyuk, who seems equally comfortable in any kind of game.
It will be interesting to see him in the playoffs this year (Grigo), the fact that he had mononucleosis last year certainly didn't help him during the playoffs. Now with a healthy season, we won't be able to find him much excuses if he doesn't show up when it counts.

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12-02-2012, 11:37 AM
  #375
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To get this back on topic.

Gally and the Sting visit Boone Jenner and the Generals tonight at 6 PM.

Jenner is a 2-way force and the Generals are a good team, so this will be a real good test for Gally in 3 in 3 situation.

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