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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 2.0

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Old
12-02-2012, 12:08 PM
  #901
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The difference right now between Barkov and MacKinnon, which is huge in this era of the NHL, is SKATING ability.

Barkov can and will improve his quickness, acceleration and speed but there is a severe doubt that he will ever be the explosive and elusive skater than MacKinnon is. The differences between their other skill sets are negligible but the skating gap is rather large and that's enough to ensure that Barkov doesn't overtake MacKinnon in the draft.

That being said, if MacKinnon isn't an option.. it's Barkov, Drouin or Lindholm or bust for me.

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12-02-2012, 12:13 PM
  #902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The difference right now between Barkov and MacKinnon, which is huge in this era of the NHL, is SKATING ability.

Barkov can and will improve his quickness, acceleration and speed but there is a severe doubt that he will ever be the explosive and elusive skater than MacKinnon is. The differences between their other skill sets are negligible but the skating gap is rather large and that's enough to ensure that Barkov doesn't overtake MacKinnon in the draft.

That being said, if MacKinnon isn't an option.. it's Barkov, Drouin or Lindholm or bust for me.
I agree with this, and this is why MacKinnon is still THE prospect in the draft, though it's important to note that Barkov is a deceptively quick skater. It's not a weakness for him. http://www.iltasanomat.fi/videot/jaa...520710880.html This is from his most recent game, right at the beginning he shows off his rushing skill. His goal is about a minute in.

But Mac is elite there.


Last edited by Et le But: 12-02-2012 at 12:25 PM.
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12-02-2012, 12:15 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The difference right now between Barkov and MacKinnon, which is huge in this era of the NHL, is SKATING ability.

Barkov can and will improve his quickness, acceleration and speed but there is a severe doubt that he will ever be the explosive and elusive skater than MacKinnon is. The differences between their other skill sets are negligible but the skating gap is rather large and that's enough to ensure that Barkov doesn't overtake MacKinnon in the draft.

That being said, if MacKinnon isn't an option.. it's Barkov, Drouin or Lindholm or bust for me.
Agreed on the skating part, there's Mackinnon, and then there are the other players of the 2013 draft. That's what makes him much more attractive too, since he can play in the nhl rightaway. Unlike guys like Barkov, Lindholm or Drouin who all have aspects physically/of their game to improve.

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12-02-2012, 12:23 PM
  #904
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Agreed on the skating part, there's Mackinnon, and then there are the other players of the 2013 draft. That's what makes him much more attractive too, since he can play in the nhl rightaway. Unlike guys like Barkov, Lindholm or Drouin who all have aspects physically/of their game to improve.
Barkov is probably NHL ready at this point, but with adjustment pains and all he probably wouldn't be putting up big numbers. Mackinnon on the other hand, as much as he still needs a lot of polish, with his speed he'd probably be a depth scorer right away.

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12-02-2012, 12:25 PM
  #905
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, since he can play in the nhl rightaway. Unlike guys like Barkov, Lindholm or Drouin who all have aspects physically/of their game to improve.
Not true, Barkov is already more or less ready for NHL, and come next October, he is 100% ready.

Also, the thing is, why should Barkov be explosive skater, if it isn't a part of his game? Why it is held against him, if he is efficient without it? Are Joe Thornton and Mikko Koivu explosive skaters?

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12-02-2012, 12:38 PM
  #906
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Barkov is probably NHL ready at this point, but with adjustment pains and all he probably wouldn't be putting up big numbers. Mackinnon on the other hand, as much as he still needs a lot of polish, with his speed he'd probably be a depth scorer right away.
It's still too early to tell if Barkov'll be ready though. One things for sure, we'll see Mack in the NHL next year.

As far as what Mack will do next year, it depends on which team he lands in. If it's Columbus, he's on their first line. Detroit? I might have to reconsider my previous comment

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Not true, Barkov is already more or less ready for NHL, and come next October, he is 100% ready.

Also, the thing is, why should Barkov be explosive skater, if it isn't a part of his game? Why it is held against him, if he is efficient without it? Are Joe Thornton and Mikko Koivu explosive skaters?
With these kind of talents, the weaknesses are so small and so few that we/they emphasize on 'em, probably too much, you're right.

He certainly wouldn't look bad in the NHL right now, but that's a thing scouts would like him to improve. That's a glaring thing, unlike Mack again of whom they say has to work on a bit of everything (that's what they say when a player is almost flawless).

They used the same critic against Couturier(explosiveness) in 2011 and he made a few teams look like fools last year for not picking him.


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12-02-2012, 12:39 PM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Not true, Barkov is already more or less ready for NHL, and come next October, he is 100% ready.

Also, the thing is, why should Barkov be explosive skater, if it isn't a part of his game? Why it is held against him, if he is efficient without it? Are Joe Thornton and Mikko Koivu explosive skaters?
Skating is a fundamental. If you are that much better than your competition at the fundamentals of the game, while being on par or slightly better than the next best guy in the draft as far as offensive skills are considered, you're going to be considered the better player.

Barkov doesn't have to be an explosive skater, but he does need to be better at it, he will succeed. Just that MacKinnon's explosiveness, elusiveness, agility, is going to make him that much more dimensional than Barkov, it will give him another tool that can push defenders back, never underestimate what speed can do for you in a game. MacKinnon's speed sets him apart from everyone else while you can't say that anyone is significantly better in any of the offensive categories. You can find someone who has a better shot or has better vision, but you won't find anyone who has both at a significantly better level than MacKinnon.

For example.
MacKinnon: Skating A+ Shooting A Playmaking A- Strength A- Size B+ Hockey Sense A+
Versus a competitor: Skating B Shooting A+ Playmaking A Strength A Size A Hockey Sense A.

You're going to give the edge to MacKinnon.

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12-02-2012, 12:42 PM
  #908
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BTW, anyone know of Barkov's contract status? Is he signed for next year with his team in Finland?

Eliteprospects.com has him signed through 2014-15, is this accurate?

Doesn't he have to do the military commitment thing before coming over? Or can that be done during the summer?

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12-02-2012, 12:45 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Skating is a fundamental. If you are that much better than your competition at the fundamentals of the game, while being on par or slightly better than the next best guy in the draft as far as offensive skills are considered, you're going to be considered the better player.

Barkov doesn't have to be an explosive skater, but he does need to be better at it, he will succeed. Just that MacKinnon's explosiveness, elusiveness, agility, is going to make him that much more dimensional than Barkov, it will give him another tool that can push defenders back, never underestimate what speed can do for you in a game. MacKinnon's speed sets him apart from everyone else while you can't say that anyone is significantly better in any of the offensive categories. You can find someone who has a better shot or has better vision, but you won't find anyone who has both at a significantly better level than MacKinnon.

For example.
MacKinnon: Skating A+ Shooting A Playmaking A- Strength A- Size B+ Hockey Sense A+
Versus a competitor: Skating B Shooting A+ Playmaking A Strength A Size A Hockey Sense A.

You're going to give the edge to MacKinnon.
Does MacKinnon play PK though? Barkov is already playing regular PK-minutes in a men's league, and I daresay his 2-way game is better than MacKinnons, though admittetly I really haven't watch Nate play, I mainly just go by what others write about him in here, much like most NA-posters haven't seen much Barkov play this season.

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12-02-2012, 12:55 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
BTW, anyone know of Barkov's contract status? Is he signed for next year with his team in Finland?

Eliteprospects.com has him signed through 2014-15, is this accurate?

Doesn't he have to do the military commitment thing before coming over? Or can that be done during the summer?
Remainder of his contract can be bought off by NHL-team, SM-Liiga and NHL have that some agreement in place. Also, because of his dual citizenship, Barkov doesn't have to serve in military (unless he wants to )

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12-02-2012, 01:03 PM
  #911
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Remainder of his contract can be bought off by NHL-team, SM-Liiga and NHL have that some agreement in place. Also, because of his dual citizenship, Barkov doesn't have to serve in military (unless he wants to )
Cool, thanks.

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12-02-2012, 01:18 PM
  #912
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Remainder of his contract can be bought off by NHL-team, SM-Liiga and NHL have that some agreement in place. Also, because of his dual citizenship, Barkov doesn't have to serve in military (unless he wants to )
From what I've read on the Finland board, stars like Barkov get an unfair advantage when it comes to military service. The example they used was Mikko Koivu, who fulfilled his obligations in like 2 weeks or something.

So Barkov will probably do his service, but over the summer without any effect on his career.

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12-02-2012, 07:03 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
The Barkov hype is getting a bit out of control around here. Several of you seem certain he's better than MacKinnon. Really?

It's not unheard for a draft eligible player to put up good numbers in the SM-liiga. Grandlund, Armia, Teravainen, etc all did it in the last 3 draft classes. The teams in that league seem to trust their kids a lot more than SEL teams do.

Now Barkov is an extremely young player for his draft and he's doing it in a lockout year with several NHLers in that league, which is an excellent sign, but there has to be a reason why the majority of the scouting world sees him as the 3rd-6th pick while MacKinnon is 1st or 2nd.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd be ecstatic to get Barkov. But I'd be even happier to get MacKinnon. Heh.
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There's a difference between good numbers (Armia-0.6ppg and Teravainen-0.45ppg) and great numbers( Grandlund-0.93ppg and Barkov-1ppgg). Now, a lot of people believe Granlund is in the discussion for best player out of the NHL and Barkov is doing better than Granlund was doing in his draft year while being younger,bigger, better defensively and, as you said, in a better league juiced up with NHLers.

Also, the majority of the scouting world isn't a very good argument in november because a lot of scout form an opinion at the WJC or later on in the year on euro prospects (all you need to think of is the rise of Teravainen last year).

Anyways, from my point of view,all you need to do is reverse the names in your last sentence so it's not like it would hard to come to terms with picking MacKinnon, Jones, Lindholm, Drouin or Monahan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The difference right now between Barkov and MacKinnon, which is huge in this era of the NHL, is SKATING ability.

Barkov can and will improve his quickness, acceleration and speed but there is a severe doubt that he will ever be the explosive and elusive skater than MacKinnon is. The differences between their other skill sets are negligible but the skating gap is rather large and that's enough to ensure that Barkov doesn't overtake MacKinnon in the draft.

That being said, if MacKinnon isn't an option.. it's Barkov, Drouin or Lindholm or bust for me.
The WJHC's will go a long way to expressing who the #1 player in the 2013 draft will be,but my feeling is Drouin would have been if he had played.Leaving fans dumbfounded as to why he wasn't selected,the tournament should showcase the players that haven't been drafted.Drouin won't be the first to get the treatment just think back to Tyler Seguin's exploits that never happened for Team Canada.Remember he was chosen 2nd overall behind Taylor Hall.My choice for the #1 will most likely be Drouin first he's a great player and 2nd he's the underdog that everyone is scared to call #1 in case he slips,but then he may be the best player for a generation by the time his name is called at the draft.

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12-02-2012, 07:05 PM
  #914
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This year top 6 is scary good. Mackinnon, Barkov, Jones, Monahan, Drouin, Lindholm..... God damn we need to find a way picking one of these guys.

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12-02-2012, 07:54 PM
  #915
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This year top 6 is scary good. Mackinnon, Barkov, Jones, Monahan, Drouin, Lindholm..... God damn we need to find a way picking one of these guys.
Ristolainen, Shinkaruk, Pulock and Lazar makes it a pretty solid top 10 too.

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12-02-2012, 07:57 PM
  #916
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We basically have 5 forwards with elite potential (Mackinnon, Barkov, Monahan, Drouin, Lindholm) and 3 defenders (Jones, Ristolainen, Pulock). Shinkaruk and Lazar than lead the way of a nice group of interesting prospects, but those 8 especially could be something special.

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12-02-2012, 09:14 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
We basically have 5 forwards with elite potential (Mackinnon, Barkov, Monahan, Drouin, Lindholm) and 3 defenders (Jones, Ristolainen, Pulock). Shinkaruk and Lazar than lead the way of a nice group of interesting prospects, but those 8 especially could be something special.
Who would Pulock be compared to ? I heave heard some good things about him but I havent gotten the chance to see one of his games. What are his strengths/weaknesses ?

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12-02-2012, 10:20 PM
  #918
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We basically have 5 forwards with elite potential (Mackinnon, Barkov, Monahan, Drouin, Lindholm) and 3 defenders (Jones, Ristolainen, Pulock). Shinkaruk and Lazar than lead the way of a nice group of interesting prospects, but those 8 especially could be something special.
I'd throw Erne in there instead of Lazar... such underwhelming stats for curtis this season

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12-02-2012, 10:39 PM
  #919
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Who would Pulock be compared to ? I heave heard some good things about him but I havent gotten the chance to see one of his games. What are his strengths/weaknesses ?
If you read the thread on the Prospect board, they say his style his reminiscent of Al McInnis with his big shot, his ability to quarterback a pp and his smooth (although not dynamic) skating. He's also got decent size and is composed and solid in his own zone.

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12-02-2012, 10:45 PM
  #920
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Who would Pulock be compared to ? I heave heard some good things about him but I havent gotten the chance to see one of his games. What are his strengths/weaknesses ?
I've seen the Shea Weber comparison thrown around over on the prospects forum. From what I've seen of him this year, I'd say it's fairly accurate.

Pulock has incredible hockey IQ, he's one of the smartest players in this years draft. He's also an fantastic passer, very hard and accurate. He has a great break out pass because of that. I also love his shot. He has hard, accurate slapper. He's put up 4 power-play goals this year. His shot has a huge impact on his goal totals, the goalies just can't handle it at all. It's a laser beam. Defensively, he's a rock. He's got an active stick which always seems to break up plays. His gap control is also very good, as he always seems to remove possession at precisely the right time. For a big guy, who isn't afraid of getting physical, he is extremely disciplined. Very rarely does he take a penalty.

His main flaw is his skating. Personally, I think he's actually a pretty decent skater in terms of technique, but his acceleration and top end speed both need improving for the next level. His puck skills could use some work too.

I really like Pulock, he thinks that game at an elite level, but his skating and puck skills could use some improvement. You can teach those things, but you can't teach his hockey IQ. He's a special player.

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12-02-2012, 10:52 PM
  #921
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Erne and Lazar are probably in the same league, true. I'd be happy with either of them out of the top 10...Erne probably be the better choice for us all things considered.

Also at that point Nichushkin has to be in the discussion. High risk but very high reward.

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Who would Pulock be compared to ? I heave heard some good things about him but I havent gotten the chance to see one of his games. What are his strengths/weaknesses ?
I've seen comparisons to prime McCabe (as in Toronto McCabe) and Al MacInnis though he probably won't be nearly as good. Basically, think booming shot, moderately physical, well rounded game with two way upside. He's putting up numbers the way Rielly is, but he doesn't have Rielly's speed or flair, but he's a bit more physical and plays a more simple, low risk game.

I'd rather have Ristolainen if given the chance though...more size, more toughness, a better puck mover. Lower upside points wise but brings more mobility and intimidation. Higher risk but higher reward.

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I've seen the Shea Weber comparison thrown around over on the prospects forum. From what I've seen of him this year, I'd say it's fairly accurate.
Shea Weber without the size, which, as much as size is overrated on hfboards, is still notable.


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12-02-2012, 11:33 PM
  #922
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Does MacKinnon play PK though? Barkov is already playing regular PK-minutes in a men's league, and I daresay his 2-way game is better than MacKinnons, though admittetly I really haven't watch Nate play, I mainly just go by what others write about him in here, much like most NA-posters haven't seen much Barkov play this season.
Yes. He's made a better effort at improving his play at both ends of the ice... Can't say he's better than Barkov defensively though, as scouts like Bark's play more than MacKinnon... It's something Nathan can improve on, but isn't his "main game"

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12-02-2012, 11:47 PM
  #923
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I'd throw Erne in there instead of Lazar... such underwhelming stats for curtis this season
Yeah, despite 2 goals and 1 assist today he only has 20 points in 28 games.

At some point Lazar has to tear it up this season if he's a top 10 prospect.

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12-03-2012, 09:57 AM
  #924
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The WJHC's will go a long way to expressing who the #1 player in the 2013 draft will be,but my feeling is Drouin would have been if he had played.Leaving fans dumbfounded as to why he wasn't selected,the tournament should showcase the players that haven't been drafted.Drouin won't be the first to get the treatment just think back to Tyler Seguin's exploits that never happened for Team Canada.Remember he was chosen 2nd overall behind Taylor Hall.My choice for the #1 will most likely be Drouin first he's a great player and 2nd he's the underdog that everyone is scared to call #1 in case he slips,but then he may be the best player for a generation by the time his name is called at the draft.
As Drouin's agent, how much do you make per pro Drouin post? Seems like every post you make lately is about Drouin!

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12-03-2012, 10:15 AM
  #925
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Yes he was. And did not stand out.

BLB is a very strong team, I think Marcoux's numbers have a lot to do with the quality of the team.

And I'll a few times if we move Galchenyuk fulltime on the wing to play with Barkov. When you have a chance to build a ridiculous 1-2 punch down the middle, you let it happen.
This isn't accurate.

He bring last year's Armada team well over what they should have been. They were suppose to be very bad after the montreal juniors fiasco and couple of steal by Joel, and Etienne Marcoux almost by himself, especially in the playoffs, lead them to a very succesful season.

Marcoux/Phaneuf is the best duo in the league, and Marcoux is the best goalie now. I would definately look for giving him a shot at a pro contract.

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He's a good goalie, but to me Fucale is the best goaltender in the league.
Fucale has the best potential but isn't the best goalie right now IMO. He's young and still has a lot to learn. We saw it in the playoffs that Marcoux was better. Potential wise though, Fucale is in another league.

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