HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Habs odds of 1st overall Pick with no season

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-28-2012, 07:34 AM
  #26
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
I heard rumours about basing it on a past-five-years average or some such. I certainly hope not. Teams like the Oilers or Leafs that were in the basement long term got compensated already every time they finished last (even if they stupidly traded picks away, they were still enormous assets.)

The farther you get from the lost year, the less relevant the criteria used. Either base a weighted system on last years results or throw thirty balls in a bin and pick them one by one. But of course this is the NHL.
Not 100% sure and you could be right but I heard it was going to be based on the previous 3 years. I guess we will find out in the next couple of weeks season or not there will be more news regarding the draft

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 07:58 AM
  #27
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MauditGreek View Post
Hi guys, just wondering what the odds are of the Habs winning the 1st overall pick in the next entry draft since there is no hockey this year.

I see the tank for McKinnon thread and I was wondering how the NHL will determine the draft order next summer?

Will it be an open lottery like the one for Crosby or is there another system in place?
It is idiotic for the NHL to have a draft after a cancelled season, as the draft is based on standings for the previous season, as it should be. No other system can possibly be fair.

I know there may be complications, but if they cancel the season, they should simply cancel the 2013 draft, and double the number of rounds in 2014.

Draft picks through trades should be honoured, for both 2013 and 2014, in the same year.

Any other solution, as in 2005, is unfair and idiotic.

You can bet the NHL will not do this, they should, but the league is a joke.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:10 AM
  #28
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
I heard rumours about basing it on a past-five-years average or some such. I certainly hope not. Teams like the Oilers or Leafs that were in the basement long term got compensated already every time they finished last (even if they stupidly traded picks away, they were still enormous assets.)

The farther you get from the lost year, the less relevant the criteria used. Either base a weighted system on last years results or throw thirty balls in a bin and pick them one by one. But of course this is the NHL.
Exactement mon ami. This is all that anyone needs to know. Cancel the friggin draft if you cancel the season. Don't draft on anything but the prevoius season's results. End of. It's called integrity.

But you know the NHL will want an 'exciting' draft in 2013 as a sop to pissed off fans, and they'll **** it up with an unfair draft. Odds are quite high Habs will get screwed.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:13 AM
  #29
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
The Oilers have the same chance as the Habs despite their multiple first overall picks the last 3 seasons.
Edited for you above in bold. I rest my case. Cancel the draft if the season is cancelled.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:15 AM
  #30
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,784
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
But the point is, they already got first Dibbs in their respective years. Why should they be even further rewarded when they haven't even played?
I rest my case again.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:30 AM
  #31
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,198
vCash: 1707
The worst thing about the lockout: the Habs nit being to suck their way to where they belong.

****ing. Sucks.

They HAVE to use last year's standing or else I might kick a puppy. Weird thing though, the habs are pretty much the only team in that situation, so I wouldn't really blame the leagu if they use last lockout's sytem.

That said: where's my
****ing season!!?!?!?!!11!1

MasterDecoy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:35 AM
  #32
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,767
vCash: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
That too! Omg, the crappy value he got out of those trades.

At least we got 5 seconds, Timmins' specialty.
3 2nds.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:37 AM
  #33
AJMHABS
Vanek!!!
 
AJMHABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
The worst thing about the lockout: the Habs nit being to suck their way to where they belong.

****ing. Sucks.

They HAVE to use last year's standing or else I might kick a puppy. Weird thing though, the habs are pretty much the only team in that situation, so I wouldn't really blame the leagu if they use last lockout's sytem.

That said: where's my
****ing season!!?!?!?!!11!1
I agree. I said this in one of my above posts that the lockout lottery screw bad teams out of top picks because they've only been bad for a season or two.

AJMHABS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:39 AM
  #34
AJMHABS
Vanek!!!
 
AJMHABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
That too! Omg, the crappy value he got out of those trades.

At least we got 5 seconds, Timmins' specialty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
3 2nds.
I think that we could have at least got a 1st for Cammy and maybe Koststityn, but having 3 2nd round picks isn't that bad either. We could use one of them and maybe a prospect/roster player to trade up.

AJMHABS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 08:56 AM
  #35
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,047
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMHABS View Post
I think that we could have at least got a 1st for Cammy and maybe Koststityn, but having 3 2nd round picks isn't that bad either. We could use one of them and maybe a prospect/roster player to trade up.
Only 3? Oh my, I must have tricked myself into thinking we had more.

poetryinmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 09:02 AM
  #36
AJMHABS
Vanek!!!
 
AJMHABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,595
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Only 3? Oh my, I must have tricked myself into thinking we had more.
I guess you were adding last year's 2 2nd round picks as well.

AJMHABS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 10:11 PM
  #37
vokiel
#NoTradesWithEDM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Midgetland
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,679
vCash: 500
I hope they weight the lottery in function of the teams that make the most cash and the best poutine

vokiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 11:09 PM
  #38
Dekar
Registered User
 
Dekar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bound Kingdom
Posts: 4,804
vCash: 500
I hope that even if the season is lost, the draft is NOT cancelled. There are kids out there who would have to wait an entire year to find out where they'll end up in the big leagues and who would have to sit through another year of development without correspondence with their new GM. The relationship the draftees develop with their parent club's administration is important, it's not just the time they spend developing on the ice. It gives them hope and goals to shoot for, guidance from the pro-level coaches and GMs. Also, consider the few top draft picks who would make the next season right out of training camp.


Dekar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-28-2012, 11:33 PM
  #39
MaxLacoste
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal
Posts: 199
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
It is idiotic for the NHL to have a draft after a cancelled season, as the draft is based on standings for the previous season, as it should be. No other system can possibly be fair.

I know there may be complications, but if they cancel the season, they should simply cancel the 2013 draft, and double the number of rounds in 2014.

Draft picks through trades should be honoured, for both 2013 and 2014, in the same year.

Any other solution, as in 2005, is unfair and idiotic.

You can bet the NHL will not do this, they should, but the league is a joke.
Putting both 2013 and 2014 player in the same draft give you other problems. Teams can get Top 5 players with Top 10 picks. Teams that don't need those kind of talent get them anyway. Like a playoff team could get a player like Drouin. It's a little unfair too.

MaxLacoste is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 01:41 PM
  #40
JohnnyReb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
I hope that even if the season is lost, the draft is NOT cancelled. There are kids out there who would have to wait an entire year to find out where they'll end up in the big leagues and who would have to sit through another year of development without correspondence with their new GM. The relationship the draftees develop with their parent club's administration is important, it's not just the time they spend developing on the ice. It gives them hope and goals to shoot for, guidance from the pro-level coaches and GMs. Also, consider the few top draft picks who would make the next season right out of training camp.

Pretty sure that would be illegal. You can't tell people where they can or cannot work without them agreeing to that beforehand, in some sort of bargained and signed agreement.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but if the NHLPA de-certifies, and it's accepted, wouldn't all these "draft" picks simply become defacto UFAs? Anybody that is legally able to work, including Connor McDavid, would be free to sign with whoever they want, and for whatever amount they can negotiate, no?

JohnnyReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-29-2012, 07:04 PM
  #41
Dekar
Registered User
 
Dekar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bound Kingdom
Posts: 4,804
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Pretty sure that would be illegal. You can't tell people where they can or cannot work without them agreeing to that beforehand, in some sort of bargained and signed agreement.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but if the NHLPA de-certifies, and it's accepted, wouldn't all these "draft" picks simply become defacto UFAs? Anybody that is legally able to work, including Connor McDavid, would be free to sign with whoever they want, and for whatever amount they can negotiate, no?
Wait, what's illegal now? Talking to the team that drafted you? I'm confuzzled.

And yes, your second point is true, but that hasn't happened and I'm not considering that until it happens, because I don't think it will.

Dekar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2012, 07:58 AM
  #42
JohnnyReb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
Wait, what's illegal now? Talking to the team that drafted you? I'm confuzzled.

And yes, your second point is true, but that hasn't happened and I'm not considering that until it happens, because I don't think it will.
No, my point was you can talk to ANY team, not just the team that "drafted" you. IBM could "draft" me, but if Apple offers me twice as much salary and a much better work environment, perhaps in my home town, I'm going to work for Apple, no matter who "drafted" me. The draft would be pretty much pointless, with no legal weight behind it to enforce it.

Now the NHL could hold a "draft" to expediate things if and when a new CBA is signed, but if I'm the NHLPA I'm refusing to honor it. In fact, I think that will be their biggest weapon; imagine if Philadelphia decides to sign Seth Jones to replace Chris Pronger? Toronto would leap all over Nathan Mackinnon and Connor McDavid, and I'm sure Geoff Molson would be salivating at the number of jerseys he could sell with "Drouin" on the back. Once that happens the floodgates open, in my opinion.

JohnnyReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2012, 08:30 AM
  #43
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,677
vCash: 500
I hate the idea of cancelling the draft. It's unfair for the younglings.

But I hate the idea of double-reward for losers. They already had their high picks when they sucked, they shouldn't be granted ADDITIONAL advantage just because they used to suck.


Just make a general, equally-chanced draft. 1 year of randomly distributed draft won't break the NHL. If the loser teams aren't happy about it, they should have pushed for a quicker resolution of the conflict.

PricePkPatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 07:31 PM
  #44
NateTheGr8
Registered User
 
NateTheGr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 366
vCash: 291
Of course anywhere in Top 3 would be good, especially #1. But in reality it'd be nice to even get a Top 5 or ATLEAST Top 10. Got a great bunch of rookies coming into the draft this year. In top 10 or so, you got Mackinnon, Jones, Barkov, Lindholm, Shinkaruk, Monahan, Pulock, Lazar, Drouin and Ristolainen, and there's a lot more than that.

Id like to get Mackinnon, but id still be so happy to get Jones or Barkov.

NateTheGr8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2012, 07:36 PM
  #45
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Snippin' Yank
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,227
vCash: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Now the NHL could hold a "draft" to expediate things if and when a new CBA is signed, but if I'm the NHLPA I'm refusing to honor it.
Then there won't be a CBA signed by the owners.

The draft is part of the CBA.

Marc the Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 03:19 AM
  #46
S Bah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: victoria bc
Country: Wales
Posts: 3,906
vCash: 500
Teams that are eligible for the 2013 Top Ten Lottery Draft can't have had a 1st choice overall in the last 20 yrs.Negating Columbus,Tampa Bay,Boston,St.Louis,Chicago, NYI, Edmonton, Pittsburgh Washington,Winnipeg,Ottawa and Florida leaving 18 teams so far.Then eliminate the teams that have won the Stanley Cup in the last twenty years.Thus Detroit,Carolina, Colorado,Anaheim,Dallas,NJ Devils,LA Kings and the NYR's that takes it to 20 teams not eligible for the Top Ten lottery picks in the 2013 Entry Draft.Buffalo,Toronto, Montreal, Philadelphia, SanJose,Phoenix,Minnesota,Vancouver, Calgary, and Nashville would be the teams eligible for the Top Ten draft lottery.This proposal seems to be the fairest to all of the teams,in this draft at least there would be a new team drafting the 1st pick overall.Your thoughts are wanted,how do you see this idea?

S Bah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 07:32 AM
  #47
Montreal Impact FC
.:| Champ's City |:.
 
Montreal Impact FC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Ecuador
Posts: 1,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by S Bah View Post
Teams that are eligible for the 2013 Top Ten Lottery Draft can't have had a 1st choice overall in the last 20 yrs.Negating Columbus,Tampa Bay,Boston,St.Louis,Chicago, NYI, Edmonton, Pittsburgh Washington,Winnipeg,Ottawa and Florida leaving 18 teams so far.Then eliminate the teams that have won the Stanley Cup in the last twenty years.Thus Detroit,Carolina, Colorado,Anaheim,Dallas,NJ Devils,LA Kings and the NYR's that takes it to 20 teams not eligible for the Top Ten lottery picks in the 2013 Entry Draft.Buffalo,Toronto, Montreal, Philadelphia, SanJose,Phoenix,Minnesota,Vancouver, Calgary, and Nashville would be the teams eligible for the Top Ten draft lottery.This proposal seems to be the fairest to all of the teams,in this draft at least there would be a new team drafting the 1st pick overall.Your thoughts are wanted,how do you see this idea?
You are close.. but we must find something else to increase the odds for montréal... obviously.

Perhaps eliminate any team who has made to the SC finals in the last 20 years too... that would leave us with 6 teams eliminating vancouver, calgary, buffalo and philadelphia...
Then we could add a sucking penalty to avoid cheaters... any team that hasnt won the cup for more than 45 years and is an original 6 must be eliminated. That would eliminate Toronto... and voila we have a perfect fair system for a top 5 elligible.
Btw dont u ever think about finnishing 1st in the conference that would be retarded.


Last edited by Montreal Impact FC: 12-02-2012 at 07:44 AM.
Montreal Impact FC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 07:40 AM
  #48
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,079
vCash: 500
I was hoping they would cancel the 2005 draft but only so they could move the draft age to 19 permanently. I'm sort of thinking the same way around.

Fozz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 11:21 AM
  #49
S Bah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: victoria bc
Country: Wales
Posts: 3,906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Impact FC View Post
You are close.. but we must find something else to increase the odds for montréal... obviously.

Perhaps eliminate any team who has made to the SC finals in the last 20 years too... that would leave us with 6 teams eliminating vancouver, calgary, buffalo and philadelphia...
Then we could add a sucking penalty to avoid cheaters... any team that hasnt won the cup for more than 45 years and is an original 6 must be eliminated. That would eliminate Toronto... and voila we have a perfect fair system for a top 5 elligible.
Btw dont u ever think about finnishing 1st in the conference that would be retarded.
This solution would leave Montreal,Nashville and Calgary at worst with a top ten position throughout the draft,giving Montreal four picks in the first 40 picks of the Draft.It also rewards teams that have given their best efforts over the twenty years,while others have had the best outcome at least once in the last twenty years.

S Bah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2012, 01:04 PM
  #50
Ciccio1980
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 305
vCash: 500
Then eliminate teams that won cups by being allowed to draft the best players in qmjhl
That leaves Montreal out

Ciccio1980 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.