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Dougie Hamilton vs Morgan Rielly

View Poll Results: Who would you take?
Dougie Hamilton 316 64.23%
Morgan Rielly 138 28.05%
too close to call 38 7.72%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-01-2012, 08:00 PM
  #326
redsox7327
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
As you can see with the past CHL Defencemen of the year, stats aren't a completely accurate representation of how good a prospect is or how good he can be. It's the talent and skillset as well as the physical attributes that will inevitably determine his success.
Agreed. Everything should be taken into account. There are positives and negatives to bring to the table for both players.

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12-01-2012, 09:34 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by redsox7327 View Post
I don't think so. After all, we are talking about whether or not he is the best drafted defensive prospect in the world. When that is the question we are considering, I think it's fair to bring many more critiques or concerns to the table than we would otherwise do if we were just qualifying a prospect as average, good, or very good. When is the last time an offensive defenseman has been ranked as the #1 defensive prospect in the world having scored a max of 28 points in a season? I'm not sure if there has been one; there may have. Who's to say whether or not he is capable of producing at over a point per game pace for an entire season factoring in the wear and tear a player endures within a 60+ game schedule. He simply hasn't shown it yet. To know fault of his own, I admit. He was injured last year. But I think it's valid to consider it if we are talking about whether or not he is the best in the world, which is basically what we would be saying if we vote him over Dougie Hamilton.

As it is, his production has slowed over the last 15 games and he is averaging less than a half of a point per game. 7 points in his last 15 games.
Why are all the scouts not concerned anout his 28 points scored but you are? I think it's a sign it doesn't matter. His overall stats on a poor team is great.

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12-02-2012, 10:38 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
I bet most of the these posters havn't seen Rielly play , this poll should be much close..

That's not taking anything away from Hamilton, they're both going to be NHL stars within a few seasons...
Why should it be closer when Hamilton is the clear cut better prospect??... He is ranked #4 on HF.

Makes no sense.

That doesn't mean Reilly sucks, just means Hamilton is that highly regarded... Hamilton is flat out the best defensive prospect in the world, what has Reilly done to surpass him??

Nothing yet in my eyes.

Reilly has established himself as a blue chip prospect with a very bright future... but people saying Hamilton is better (because he is) isn't a slight on Reilly at all.

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12-02-2012, 11:30 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Why should it be closer when Hamilton is the clear cut better prospect??... He is ranked #4 on HF.

Makes no sense.

That doesn't mean Reilly sucks, just means Hamilton is that highly regarded... Hamilton is flat out the best defensive prospect in the world, what has Reilly done to surpass him??

Nothing yet in my eyes.

Reilly has established himself as a blue chip prospect with a very bright future... but people saying Hamilton is better (because he is) isn't a slight on Reilly at all.
Boy, if only you could have them both...

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12-02-2012, 12:04 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Lim Ran View Post
Boy, if only you could have them both...
Little known fact: The Leafs received a player in that trade.


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12-02-2012, 12:26 PM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Why should it be closer when Hamilton is the clear cut better prospect??... He is ranked #4 on HF.

Makes no sense.

That doesn't mean Reilly sucks, just means Hamilton is that highly regarded... Hamilton is flat out the best defensive prospect in the world, what has Reilly done to surpass him??

Nothing yet in my eyes.

Reilly has established himself as a blue chip prospect with a very bright future... but people saying Hamilton is better (because he is) isn't a slight on Reilly at all.
Since when are HF rankings word of God?

Would you rather have Zibanejad over Galchenyuk? Their rankings are always the same, #1 is the most recent #1 overall pick, and then they underrate everyone else in the draft in favour of more mature prospects. If your argument is dependent on his arbitrary ranking on a list then it's a pretty weak one.

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12-02-2012, 12:29 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Lim Ran View Post
Boy, if only you could have them both...
Exactly two prospects with bright futures,and looking forward to watching both in the world juniors


Last edited by bme44: 12-02-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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Old
12-02-2012, 12:58 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Why should it be closer when Hamilton is the clear cut better prospect??... He is ranked #4 on HF.

Makes no sense.


That doesn't mean Reilly sucks, just means Hamilton is that highly regarded... Hamilton is flat out the best defensive prospect in the world, what has Reilly done to surpass him??

Nothing yet in my eyes.

Reilly has established himself as a blue chip prospect with a very bright future... but people saying Hamilton is better (because he is) isn't a slight on Reilly at all.
I hope you realize scouts are not uniform in their decisions. Don't you wonder why there is so much uncertainty in drafts where teams pick all over the place regardless of rankings. There cannot be one uniform list to decide a player's talent level compared to another because organizing and comparing hockey talent isn't linear. Take a look at Ryan Strome for example.

Hockeys Future has him listed with 8.0 C and Rielly has 8.5 C and yet Ryan Strome is ahead of him in the rankings. To take that list to heart with the utmost certainty would be incredibly foolish because it doesn't prove a thing about who will be the better player when they go to the NHL.

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12-02-2012, 01:48 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Agreed. This poll is ridiculous. It should not be this one-sided.

Honestly, how many people desperately want to believe Hamilton is far, far better because the Leafs traded the pick Boston used?

Rielly was drafted higher, and I believe is the more talented player of the two.
Well see, the poll isn't saying how much better Hamilton is, just tha he is better. And he is. Nothing wrong with the poll results....

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Originally Posted by Rp477 View Post
And how many Leaf fans desperately want to believe Hamilton will not reach his projected potential because of the trade.

Your act is getting old Roger
Exactly!

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Old
12-02-2012, 01:52 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
I hope you realize scouts are not uniform in their decisions. Don't you wonder why there is so much uncertainty in drafts where teams pick all over the place regardless of rankings. There cannot be one uniform list to decide a player's talent level compared to another because organizing and comparing hockey talent isn't linear. Take a look at Ryan Strome for example.

Hockeys Future has him listed with 8.0 C and Rielly has 8.5 C and yet Ryan Strome is ahead of him in the rankings. To take that list to heart with the utmost certainty would be incredibly foolish because it doesn't prove a thing about who will be the better player when they go to the NHL.
Ratings are done by a fan of their own team, so clearly some bias in the ratings is to be expected. The overall rankings aren't done the same way. So I've heard at least.

Edit: You think professional scouts select HF ratings?! I highly doubt it....

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12-02-2012, 02:08 PM
  #336
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Want to know why little value should be held in the HF list (Not a knock on the writters, i actually very much enjoy them and am well aware it is impossible to predict the future)

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...spring2008110/

Aside from Toews and Price, the whole top 10 is not even close, i mean Johnson at 2, Turris at 4, Ryan way to low at 10.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...pring20081125/

Not close... Giroux at 18, etc. etc. etc.

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12-02-2012, 02:27 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Want to know why little value should be held in the HF list (Not a knock on the writters, i actually very much enjoy them and am well aware it is impossible to predict the future)

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...spring2008110/

Aside from Toews and Price, the whole top 10 is not even close, i mean Johnson at 2, Turris at 4, Ryan way to low at 10.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...pring20081125/

Not close... Giroux at 18, etc. etc. etc.
I think the best recent example is David Rundblad. Not that he can't turn into a good player, but he had one really great year, won some awards and hockeysfuture proclaimed him the best prospect in the World, he got all the treatment really that Dougie Hamilton is getting now. If you think Dougie Hamilton is the best defensive prospect in the World because you've actually watched him play and see a lot of great things in his game, fine. But when you go 'ZOMG PROSPECT OF THE YEAR' or bring up arbitrary rankings, it hurts your credibility. David Rundblad went from a future hockey god to #33 in hockey's future rankings, the rankings are very much just indicative of who had the best recent season, which is not the best way to judge prospects (especially when one is a year younger and was injured for most of the season).

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12-02-2012, 02:29 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Want to know why little value should be held in the HF list (Not a knock on the writters, i actually very much enjoy them and am well aware it is impossible to predict the future)

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...spring2008110/

Aside from Toews and Price, the whole top 10 is not even close, i mean Johnson at 2, Turris at 4, Ryan way to low at 10.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...pring20081125/

Not close... Giroux at 18, etc. etc. etc.
Which is part of what makes evaluating prospect's potential so interesting to many. Nothing wrong with being way off here, the GMs and their teams are also very wrong in their evaluations.

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12-02-2012, 03:33 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I think the best recent example is David Rundblad. Not that he can't turn into a good player, but he had one really great year, won some awards and hockeysfuture proclaimed him the best prospect in the World, he got all the treatment really that Dougie Hamilton is getting now. If you think Dougie Hamilton is the best defensive prospect in the World because you've actually watched him play and see a lot of great things in his game, fine. But when you go 'ZOMG PROSPECT OF THE YEAR' or bring up arbitrary rankings, it hurts your credibility. David Rundblad went from a future hockey god to #33 in hockey's future rankings, the rankings are very much just indicative of who had the best recent season, which is not the best way to judge prospects (especially when one is a year younger and was injured for most of the season).
So because of David Rundblad, Dougie Hamilton will not be a good prospect down the road? Why even bring up a random prospect that has nothing to do with this poll?

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12-02-2012, 04:03 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
So because of David Rundblad, Dougie Hamilton will not be a good prospect down the road? Why even bring up a random prospect that has nothing to do with this poll?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
If you think Dougie Hamilton is the best defensive prospect in the World because you've actually watched him play and see a lot of great things in his game, fine.
Reading is hard.

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Old
12-02-2012, 04:06 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf View Post
Who would you rather have going forward? and who do you think will end up as the better d-man?

Please share your opinions on why you made the choice.

Leafs and Bruins fans, I would be pleased if u guys would refrain from voting.
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Reading is hard.
yup.

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12-02-2012, 04:18 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
So because of David Rundblad, Dougie Hamilton will not be a good prospect down the road? Why even bring up a random prospect that has nothing to do with this poll?
Hamilton is the top defensive prospect on practically every list out there, not impressive because Rundblad had one bad year and he used to be atop those lists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
What a pedigree.

201112 Dougie Hamilton, Niagara IceDogs
201011 Ryan Ellis, Windsor Spitfires
200910 David Savard, Moncton Wildcats
200809 Jonathon Blum, Vancouver Giants
200708 Karl Alzner, Calgary Hitmen
200607 Kris Russell, Medicine Hat Tigers
200506 Keith Yandle, Moncton Wildcats
200405 Danny Syvret, London Knights
200304 James Wisniewski, Plymouth Whalers
200203 Brendan Bell, Ottawa 67's
200102 Dan Hamhuis, Prince George Cougars
200001 Marc-Andre Bergeron, Shawinigan Cataractes
Hamilton wins CHL defenseman of the year, not impressive because there's been guys in the past who didn't become great NHLers (although it's not a terrible list, Hamhuis, Wiz and Yandle are pretty damn good).

The logic hurts my head.

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12-02-2012, 04:18 PM
  #343
Atomos2
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
yup.
What this poster is meaning to say is that this goes under the assumption that MastuhNinks is a leafs fan.

He's purely guessing of course, but he believes anyone who doesn't think Hamilton is the best D prospect in the world must be a leaf fan because anyone else has no free will of their own and must succummb to what the scouts say.

Although he's taking a chance (which he is, because this thread is inviting non leaf fans) he feels confident in his decision despite the fact that if he is wrong he would just end up being another fan with low credibility and assumptions.

Let's see what else this poster will do.


Last edited by Atomos2: 12-02-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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12-02-2012, 04:23 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
Hamilton is the top defensive prospect on practically every list out there, not impressive because Rundblad had one bad year and he used to be atop those lists.



Hamilton wins CHL defenseman of the year, not impressive because there's been guys in the past who didn't become great NHLers (although it's not a terrible list, Hamhuis, Wiz and Yandle are pretty damn good).

The logic hurts my head.
He had a good year, but it's too early define that good year as the rest of his career in the NHL. And yes Yandle and the others are pretty good, but I'm guessing in your opinion Hamilton is already better than all of them.

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12-02-2012, 04:26 PM
  #345
Qward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
What this poster is meaning to say is that this goes under the assumption that MastuhNinks is a leafs fan.

He's purely guessing of course, but he believes anyone who doesn't think Hamilton is the best D prospect in the world must be a leaf fan because anyone else has no free will of their own a must succummb to what the scouts say.

Although he's taking a chance (which he is, because this thread is inviting non leaf fans) he feels confident in his decision despite the fact that if he is wrong he would just end up being another fan with low credibility and assumptions.

Let's see what else this poster will do.

Wild Qward fled!

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12-02-2012, 04:43 PM
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
Hamilton is the top defensive prospect on practically every list out there, not impressive because Rundblad had one bad year and he used to be atop those lists.



Hamilton wins CHL defenseman of the year, not impressive because there's been guys in the past who didn't become great NHLers (although it's not a terrible list, Hamhuis, Wiz and Yandle are pretty damn good).

The logic hurts my head.
Just wanted to point that out before he wears his CHL defenseman of the year sash over his Bruins jersey. Collecting abundant points on a successful team usually has a say in it.

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12-02-2012, 04:53 PM
  #347
Atomos2
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Wild Qward fled!
lol! I have to admit, that was pretty funny.

Btw hilarious avatar pic


Last edited by Atomos2: 12-02-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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12-02-2012, 05:56 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
Just wanted to point that out before he wears his CHL defenseman of the year sash over his Bruins jersey. Collecting abundant points on a successful team usually has a say in it.
And Hamilton in no way helped that team be successful?

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12-02-2012, 09:14 PM
  #349
Atomos2
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And Hamilton in no way helped that team be successful?
Wow, it's just black and white with you isn't it. It's either one extreme or the other. There is no middle ground.

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12-02-2012, 10:49 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
What a pedigree.

2011–12 Dougie Hamilton, Niagara IceDogs
2010–11 Ryan Ellis, Windsor Spitfires
2009–10 David Savard, Moncton Wildcats
2008–09 Jonathon Blum, Vancouver Giants
2007–08 Karl Alzner, Calgary Hitmen
2006–07 Kris Russell, Medicine Hat Tigers
2005–06 Keith Yandle, Moncton Wildcats
2004–05 Danny Syvret, London Knights
2003–04 James Wisniewski, Plymouth Whalers
2002–03 Brendan Bell, Ottawa 67's
2001–02 Dan Hamhuis, Prince George Cougars
2000–01 Marc-Andre Bergeron, Shawinigan Cataractes
- Yandle is a number 1 dman in the making

- Alzner and Hamuis are top 2/3 dmen

- Wiz is a top 4 dman

- Russel, Bergeron are bottom pairing dmen.

- Blum, Savard, and Ellis are still pretty young and have potential to be top 4 guys ( especially Savard and Ellis, Blum has fallen off course a little bit ).

It's not a who's-who collection of top dmen, but Hamilton is a sure bet to become a top 4 guy at the very least and that list does nothing to downplay his max potential. There's still a lot to be said about being the best defensive prospect voted by coaches and scouts in various polls/lists/awards. Like with any prospect, the chance of being a bust is there, but with prospects like Hamilton, it's a very small chance at best.

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