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Kovalchuk most underated player in NHL?

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Old
12-02-2012, 10:43 AM
  #76
kimzey59
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
On a personal level, he's very smart and kind, and also very good looking? Why isn't he on the cover of every sports magazine??? He doesn't whine either like the other players, he just plays harder. Which makes him a great leader and could be captain on any team in the nhl.
I think his skills have been covered by others so I'm going to focus on this.

1) Most NHL'ers are smart and kind. The NHL is one of the top Leagues in the World when it comes to charity donations and there are literally dozens of Mensa Level scholars throughout the League.

2) Looks are subjective and have no place in this discussion. Besides, I know a lot of people who think that this should still be the look of the League:



3) Have we already forgotten his departure from Atlanta? The guy is a candidate to be the poster boy for why we are currently locked out. He held his team hostage for more money than they could afford, still insisted on testing the UFA market, sold his services to the highest bidder and agreed to a long term Cap circumventing contract. Is that really what you want as the face of the League?

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Old
12-02-2012, 11:15 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
People always blah blah all he can do is shoot, can't skate or do anything else.
who the **** thinks kovy can't skate?
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Kovalchuk is not even captain of his own team. Anybody with decent leadership could be a captain on the devils considering the lack of competition for the captain position. Elias didn't even want the Captain and Kovalchuk was beat to it by Parise who hadn't been in the NHL for too long and who abandoned his team after being named captain the year before and making it too the stanley cup finals. So basically Kovalchuk has bad leadership qualities or he would be captain by now.
this is some impressively bad logic you have there.
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Originally Posted by Yashintangibles View Post
Kovalchuk's wrister/snapper/slapper combo is probably the best shooting skillset in the league with Stamkos.

On the other hand, the main reason why Kovalchuk didn't score +40 goals last season seems obvious to me. His one-timer lost in accuracy compared to Atlanta.With 310 shots on net last season, IK was an offensive force.
Usually +300 shots on net mean easy 40 goal seasons for those elite shooters, but like I pointed out above, his S% regressed.

Once he'll make adjustment to his one-timer, I'm sure he'll hit the 40 goals/season mark again.
this is some good analysis. the main difference i've noticed between kovy now vs. kovy in atlanta that is detrimental to his offense isn't that he is being less explosive, but that his slapper isn't the deadly force it used to be. in atlanta, when he let it go you expected it to go in the net. not so anymore.

i think if larsson emerges as many expect him to the next time there is nhl, we might see larsson and zidlicky man the points and kovy move down into the slot. i think that would make him more deadly on the pp, and thus increase his shooting percentage. right now he's more of a diversion on a devils powerplay than he is a scoring threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Kovalchuk has better speed and strength and more reach than Datsyuk.

Datsyuk dangles once in a while and people claim he's the best stickhandler of all-time.

It's much easier to stickhandle when you're 5'11, 195 lbs and not a fast skater than it is when you're 6'2, 230 lbs and as fast a skater as they come.

I think Kovalchuk is a more efficient stickhandler. He's almost like Jagr and Lemieux in that sense.
kovalchuk is better physically than datsyuk, nobody will argue that, but he is not a better puckhandler. he's one of the best in the world, but not better than datsyuk
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Originally Posted by sabresfan129103 View Post
How can a player be underrated when everyone thinks he is amazing.
aaand /thread
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Penalty numbers are/were down league wide, that prob. accounts for some of that,
i don't see how less opportunities to use a supposedly weakened slap shot would hurt his shooting percentage.

unless you are saying that taking more even strength shots that resulted from having fewer power play opportunities lowered his shooting percentage, though that would suggest that it's his wrister that has the problems and not his slapper. that would support the theory that it had to do with him switching to the right side, though.
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Originally Posted by RespectYourEdlers View Post
He has the best wrist shot in the leauge.
let me introduce to you alexander semin
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Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
just look into those eyes. soooooo dreamy

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Old
12-02-2012, 12:03 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Scottyk9 View Post
This gif is ****ing awesome.

Saw it at the Devils board the other day and it's still killing me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 81 View Post

i don't see how less opportunities to use a supposedly weakened slap shot would hurt his shooting percentage.

unless you are saying that taking more even strength shots that resulted from having fewer power play opportunities lowered his shooting percentage, though that would suggest that it's his wrister that has the problems and not his slapper. that would support the theory that it had to do with him switching to the right side, though.
I phrased that badly; there was discussion why he didn't score 40+ goals.

And imo it's mostly because PP's are down, causing a decrease in he's sh% as well as interferences, hooks etc have increased. He's not cherry picking as much either and therefore not getting to prime scoring opportunities as often.

Also passing when he should have shot pbviously didn't help he's goal totals last year.

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Old
12-02-2012, 01:21 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
Have we already forgotten his departure from Atlanta? The guy is a candidate to be the poster boy for why we are currently locked out. He held his team hostage for more money than they could afford, still insisted on testing the UFA market, sold his services to the highest bidder and agreed to a long term Cap circumventing contract. Is that really what you want as the face of the League?
No one is perfect, and no one cares about Atlanta. One of the worst crime rates in the US, what if Kovy is mugged or attacked there just buying coffee? He needs to take care of himself for himself and for his fans. He needs to go out and back home without being stressed out by all the druggies and gangsters around every corner.

He's best in the league, is fun to watchplay and otherwise, very good looking and a great leader. He would be a much better face of the league than Crosby. Who is only that because he's canadian and theres not much other options there. Unlike Crosby, Kovalchuk is not a whiner, and always works hard. All his teammates and his opponents respect him. He doesn't have a single weakness as a player. Would be best player, leader and best person on every team in the NHL.

If you were sad, his arms would be there. If you were angry, he'd gently hold you and get you to breath slowly. If you were happy, he'd give you a warm smile. His teamates in Atlanta must be furious at the terrible management. Who is there captain now? No one knows.

It's sad that at the bare minimum a top 5 player like Kovalchuk is so underrated. It's like no one watches him play. I thought after he left Atlanta, more people would see him and how great he is... but still not...

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12-02-2012, 01:31 PM
  #80
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No. He is Russian which allows him a lot of special protective treatment atleast here at Hfboards.

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Old
12-02-2012, 01:32 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by UCantHandleMyRiddum View Post
Kovalchuk is clearly the second best Russian player in the World and a current top 10 player.
Im curious who you think the best is. Not saying your wrong because an argument can be made. But for me personally its....

1. Datsyuk
2. Malkin
3. Ovechkin (don't be fooled by the 2 off seasons)
4. Kovalchuk


As for the thread. Im starting to question if you even watch Kovalchuk. He came out hot in the KHL but now is about average with the other stars, including Ovechkin who everyone is ripping on right now but will feel stupid soon. Best in the NHL next year ? Very doubtful. GM's lining up offers? The guy committed to NJ for life for a reason.

Also its funny because an off year for Ovechkin is considered a decent year for Kovalchuk, but still people are considering him better

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12-02-2012, 01:35 PM
  #82
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id easily take him over Ovi 10 out of 10 times.

he is a bit underrated but certainly not the most.

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12-02-2012, 01:46 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
No one is perfect, and no one cares about Atlanta. One of the worst crime rates in the US, what if Kovy is mugged or attacked there just buying coffee? He needs to take care of himself for himself and for his fans. He needs to go out and back home without being stressed out by all the druggies and gangsters around every corner.He's best in the league, is fun to watchplay and otherwise, very good looking and a great leader. He would be a much better face of the league than Crosby. Who is only that because he's canadian and theres not much other options there. Unlike Crosby, Kovalchuk is not a whiner, and always works hard. All his teammates and his opponents respect him. He doesn't have a single weakness as a player. Would be best player, leader and best person on every team in the NHL.

If you were sad, his arms would be there. If you were angry, he'd gently hold you and get you to breath slowly. If you were happy, he'd give you a warm smile. His teamates in Atlanta must be furious at the terrible management. Who is there captain now? No one knows.

It's sad that at the bare minimum a top 5 player like Kovalchuk is so underrated. It's like no one watches him play. I thought after he left Atlanta, more people would see him and how great he is... but still not...
POST.OF.THE.DECADE


eta: i especially enjoyed those parts lol

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12-02-2012, 02:52 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Im curious who you think the best is. Not saying your wrong because an argument can be made. But for me personally its....

1. Datsyuk
2. Malkin
3. Ovechkin (don't be fooled by the 2 off seasons)
4. Kovalchuk


As for the thread. Im starting to question if you even watch Kovalchuk. He came out hot in the KHL but now is about average with the other stars, including Ovechkin who everyone is ripping on right now but will feel stupid soon. Best in the NHL next year ? Very doubtful. GM's lining up offers? The guy committed to NJ for life for a reason.

Also its funny because an off year for Ovechkin is considered a decent year for Kovalchuk, but still people are considering him better
Really Datsyuk over Malkin how overrated has he become

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12-02-2012, 02:53 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipops View Post
No one is perfect, and no one cares about Atlanta. One of the worst crime rates in the US, what if Kovy is mugged or attacked there just buying coffee? He needs to take care of himself for himself and for his fans. He needs to go out and back home without being stressed out by all the druggies and gangsters around every corner.

He's best in the league, is fun to watchplay and otherwise, very good looking and a great leader. He would be a much better face of the league than Crosby. Who is only that because he's canadian and theres not much other options there. Unlike Crosby, Kovalchuk is not a whiner, and always works hard. All his teammates and his opponents respect him. He doesn't have a single weakness as a player. Would be best player, leader and best person on every team in the NHL.

If you were sad, his arms would be there. If you were angry, he'd gently hold you and get you to breath slowly. If you were happy, he'd give you a warm smile. His teamates in Atlanta must be furious at the terrible management. Who is there captain now? No one knows.

It's sad that at the bare minimum a top 5 player like Kovalchuk is so underrated. It's like no one watches him play. I thought after he left Atlanta, more people would see him and how great he is... but still not...
You know he left Atlanta for Newark which also has a high crime rate.

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12-02-2012, 02:55 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by iiTzLaMia View Post
Really Datsyuk over Malkin how overrated has he become
Extremely.

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Old
12-02-2012, 03:12 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Im curious who you think the best is. Not saying your wrong because an argument can be made. But for me personally its....

1. Datsyuk
2. Malkin
3. Ovechkin (don't be fooled by the 2 off seasons)
4. Kovalchuk


Also its funny because an off year for Ovechkin is considered a decent year for Kovalchuk, but still people are considering him better
I don't know man, personally i can't find any reasoning to say Dats is better than Malkin. I find it actually a bit absurd that someone would legitimately try to make that kind of claim. Malkin has basically every single category better than Dats. (except Selke count)

Before you say hockey is more than stats, please save your keyboard. Most useless and used argument which should hold no value when comparing players like Malkin and Datsuyk against each other.

2x Art Winner
Hart winner
Conn Smythe
Ted Lindsay
Calder
1.23 PPG in 427 games
3x 1st team all star

comapred to

3x Selke winner
0.98 PPG over 732 games
1x 2nd team all star

Malkin has multiple times more impressive career so far and he has played 6 seasons.


Both are absolutely elite players but one of these things is not like the other.

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12-02-2012, 03:16 PM
  #88
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I'm a Wings fan but there's no way Datsyuk is above Malkin. Or really Ovechkin either.

He's one of the most unique players in the league and I'm thankful that he's ours, but he's never quite been the elite offensive force the others have.

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12-02-2012, 03:19 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
I don't know man, personally i can't find any reasoning to say Dats is better than Malkin. I find it actually a bit absurd that someone would legitimately try to make that kind of claim. Malkin has basically every single category better than Dats. (except Selke count)

Before you say hockey is more than stats, please save your keyboard. Most useless and used argument which should hold no value when comparing players like Malkin and Datsuyk against each other.

2x Art Winner
Hart winner
Conn Smythe
Ted Lindsay
Calder
1.23 PPG in 427 games
3x 1st team all star

comapred to

3x Selke winner
0.98 PPG over 732 games
1x 2nd team all star

Malkin has multiple times more impressive career so far and he has played 6 seasons.


Both are absolutely elite players but one of these things is not like the other.


I get your point, but I view Datsyuk as one of the best players in the world. His skill is about as high as Malkins. He does not score as many points, even though I think if he wanted to be more selfish he could. But what makes me think hes better then Malkin is his complete game, IQ and intangables, one of the best players I have ever watched. I think its hard to justify Datsyuk as a better player but I just personally view him as better.

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12-02-2012, 03:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
I get your point, but I view Datsyuk as one of the best players in the world. His skill is about as high as Malkins. He does not score as many points, even though I think if he wanted to be more selfish he could. But what makes me think hes better then Malkin is his complete game, IQ and intangables, one of the best players I have ever watched. I think its hard to justify Datsyuk as a better player but I just personally view him as better.
I think Datsyuk's biggest limitation is his body. He doesn't have the extra weight and reach of guys like Malkin, Kovy, Ovie or the athleticism of Crosby. But pound-for-pound he might be the most skilled in the world.

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12-02-2012, 03:26 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
I get your point, but I view Datsyuk as one of the best players in the world. His skill is about as high as Malkins. He does not score as many points, even though I think if he wanted to be more selfish he could. But what makes me think hes better then Malkin is his complete game, IQ and intangables, one of the best players I have ever watched. I think its hard to justify Datsyuk as a better player but I just personally view him as better.
All right. I won't even try to do more. It is just that if someone is not seeing that Malkin is better than Datsuyk then there is really no point in debating it. As i said, both elite players and we are all grateful to witnessed their careers so far.

But for me, saying Dats is better than Malkin is like saying Selanne had better career than Jagr. Some of us might like Selanne a lot and he is one of the most respected players in the league. But it would take pretty blind bias to actually mean that.

But it is great that people have different opinions.

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12-02-2012, 03:33 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post

3) Have we already forgotten his departure from Atlanta? The guy is a candidate to be the poster boy for why we are currently locked out. He held his team hostage for more money than they could afford, still insisted on testing the UFA market, sold his services to the highest bidder and agreed to a long term Cap circumventing contract. Is that really what you want as the face of the League?
That's not how I remember it. He would have signed if they would have kept the team in Atlanta. Blame the owners for that.

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Old
12-02-2012, 04:01 PM
  #93
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That's not how I remember it. He would have signed if they would have kept the team in Atlanta. Blame the owners for that.
Seriously?

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12-02-2012, 04:11 PM
  #94
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I would say that Kovalchuk is below average defensively and doesn't come close to Datsyuk in stickhandling.

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12-02-2012, 06:14 PM
  #95
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We haven't had an over/underrated thread in what, two days? HF needs to be reminded who is overrated and underrated just about every other week.

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12-02-2012, 06:37 PM
  #96
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If you think Datsyuk is better than Malkin, Ovechkin or Kovy in anything other than stickhandling you are either a) a huge homer or b) have never watched the last 3 play. Datsyuk is the best stick-handler in the league, but in no way is he a complete game changer or has the impact of Kovy, Ovechkin or Malkin in a game.

And as for best shot in the league, it is easily Semin in both categories. Kovy is right behind him with his wrist shot though

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12-02-2012, 06:50 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
I think his skills have been covered by others so I'm going to focus on this.

1) Most NHL'ers are smart and kind. The NHL is one of the top Leagues in the World when it comes to charity donations and there are literally dozens of Mensa Level scholars throughout the League.

2) Looks are subjective and have no place in this discussion. Besides, I know a lot of people who think that this should still be the look of the League:



3) Have we already forgotten his departure from Atlanta? The guy is a candidate to be the poster boy for why we are currently locked out. He held his team hostage for more money than they could afford, still insisted on testing the UFA market, sold his services to the highest bidder and agreed to a long term Cap circumventing contract. Is that really what you want as the face of the League?
grab a tissue.

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12-02-2012, 07:06 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by jgoud View Post
If you think Datsyuk is better than Malkin, Ovechkin or Kovy in anything other than stickhandling you are either a) a huge homer or b) have never watched the last 3 play. Datsyuk is the best stick-handler in the league, but in no way is he a complete game changer or has the impact of Kovy, Ovechkin or Malkin in a game.

And as for best shot in the league, it is easily Semin in both categories. Kovy is right behind him with his wrist shot though
Malkin is better than Datsyuk, but I'd easily take Datsyuk over Kovy and Ovechkin, especially the Ovechkin over the past couple years

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12-02-2012, 07:14 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Maybe peak, but Ilya Kovalchuk has been in his prime ever since his 2nd NHL season which since then (2003-Now) averages 43 goals and 84 points a season, Elias has topped that once in his 16 year career.
Yet, Elias has always been the better overall player. Kovy is certainly getting better in the other two zones and at this point going forward I would take Kovy but it's criminal how underrated Elias has always been.

Kovy is quickly becoming one of my favorites but the OP is going overboard.


Last edited by Lateralous: 12-02-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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12-02-2012, 07:15 PM
  #100
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Ovechkin still managed to put up 38 goals despite having the worst year of his career and i don't think Datsyuk has scored over 30 in one season... not that goals are everything but with the exception of stick-handling and passing, Ovechkin has the upper hand on him in everything else

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