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Old
12-02-2012, 05:44 PM
  #251
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It's over guys. You can't undo the Kessel trade. You either accept it and move on or just cheer for another team.

It's been 3 and a half years.

Kessel is a superstar. I'm very happy with him.

Worrying about what could have been? Nah. I'm moving on with my life and I'm choosing to continue to cheer for the Leafs.

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12-02-2012, 05:55 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Let's just clarify:

Burke did not trade Seguin, Hamilton and Knight for Kessel.

Burke traded 3 draft picks for Kessel.

Huge difference.
It's amazing how many people don't grasp this simple fact.

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12-02-2012, 05:55 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It's over guys. You can't undo the Kessel trade. You either accept it and move on or just cheer for another team.

It's been 3 and a half years.

Kessel is a superstar. I'm very happy with him.

Worrying about what could have been? Nah. I'm moving on with my life and I'm choosing to continue to cheer for the Leafs.
Bingo.

It's not like the deal is anything close to the Rask for Raycroft deal. OR the Steen and Coli for Stempniak deal. Or the picks for Toskala and Bell deal.

Rediculous when people say it's one of the worst trades in Leafs history. It isn't top three in the last 8 years.

Don't make me have to revisit the Ballard years!

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12-02-2012, 05:59 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
It's amazing how many people don't grasp this simple fact.
I am beginning to believe they don't want to accept it. Ignoring the truth comes in handy when all you want to do is belittle someone else.

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12-02-2012, 05:59 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Huh? You didn't even address my point. You just brought up Seguin and the "Trade" as a lazy argument.

I was pointing out how Kessel has played with success in a more defensive system. The point was being made it seems that Wilson's style helped Kessel score more.
I guess I will have to spoon feed you then.....my assertion was that Seguin a year younger played for the same defensive first coach and out produced Kessel and even lead the team in scoring.

And Wilson's system did help Kessel's point production, how could it not.

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12-02-2012, 06:06 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I guess I will have to spoon feed you then.....my assertion was that Seguin a year younger played for the same defensive first coach and out produced Kessel and even lead the team in scoring.

And Wilson's system did help Kessel's point production, how could it not.
Sorry I have been having some memory issues.

I just can't seem to remember when Seguin had to take time to battle testicular cancer.

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12-02-2012, 06:08 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It's over guys. You can't undo the Kessel trade. You either accept it and move on or just cheer for another team.

It's been 3 and a half years.

Kessel is a superstar. I'm very happy with him.

Worrying about what could have been? Nah. I'm moving on with my life and I'm choosing to continue to cheer for the Leafs.
I'm a Leaf fan and always have been. The fact we are discussing Burke is the reason why Keesel is brought into the discussion as it was a major error in judgment and as a our GM he owns that decision. That along with many other errors and failure to do as promised leads me to believe that Burke has failed in his tenure thus far as the GM.

That does not make me any less a fan then you!

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12-02-2012, 06:11 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I guess I will have to spoon feed you then.....my assertion was that Seguin a year younger played for the same defensive first coach and out produced Kessel and even lead the team in scoring.

And Wilson's system did help Kessel's point production, how could it not.
He had Tyler Bozak as his centre. That kills whatever advantage Wilson's system had on him.

My point was, Kessel was fine statistically under Julian.

And just to point out, Kessel's season was better at a PPG. pace. Kessel was on pace for 70 points that season. He missed a chunk of games with mono. So no, Seguin wasn't better.

And why was Seguin brought into this discussion anyways? You're obsessed.


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Old
12-02-2012, 06:15 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Let's just clarify:

Burke did not trade Seguin, Hamilton and Knight for Kessel.

Burke traded 3 draft picks for Kessel.

Huge difference.
Just for clarification.....trades are measured by the outcome and the players mentioned are the outcome of that trade.

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12-02-2012, 06:18 PM
  #260
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Team comes damn near last 4 years in a row and Burke gets commended for improving the prospect pool...

Folks that should be a basic expectation and does not deserve lauding.

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12-02-2012, 06:18 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
Just for clarification.....trades are measured by the outcome and the players mentioned are the outcome of that trade.
Burke did not trade those players.

Burke traded draft picks. He was never in posession of those players. Therefore he could not have traded them.

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12-02-2012, 06:20 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
He had Tyler Bozak as his centre. That should have limited much more what he could have done.

My point was, Kessel was fine statistically under Julian.

And just to point out, Kessel's season was better at a PPG. pace. Kessel was on pace for 70 points that season. He missed a chunk of games with mono. So no, Seguin wasn't better.

And why was Seguin brought into this discussion anyways? You're obsessed.
The numbers work out almost the same......857 Kessel, Seguin .827

The real difference is the age of the players.....

lets compare apples to apples then..... 19 18 37 at the same age and NHL experience.

Look back I never brought Kessel nor Seguin into this debate....so calling me names will not change that.

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Old
12-02-2012, 06:20 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If Burke had signed Kessel to an offersheet there is no way in hell Chiarelli does the Kaberle deal.

You almost have to look at them together. You don't have to but I'll guarantee you that if Burke had pissed of Chiarelli by using an offersheet, Kabs would have went somewhere else for half the return.

And this isn't close to being one of the worst trades in history. As a Sittler fan you should know that.
Why does everyone overlook the highly likely possibility they would have matched ?

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12-02-2012, 06:21 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
Team comes damn near last 4 years in a row and Burke gets commended for improving the prospect pool...

Folks that should be a basic expectation and does not deserve lauding.
Team was in a playoff position FEB 23rd. before the collapse.

That is a definite sign of improvement. When in the previous 4 years had the Leafs even been close to the playoffs that late in the season.

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12-02-2012, 06:24 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Why does everyone overlook the highly likely possibility they would have matched ?
Chiarelli is on record as saying the BRuins would match ANY offersheet made to Kessel.

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12-02-2012, 06:37 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Team was in a playoff position FEB 23rd. before the collapse.

That is a definite sign of improvement. When in the previous 4 years had the Leafs even been close to the playoffs that late in the season.
I agree the team has more talent than it did before. I am just perplexed at Burke getting praise for increasing the prospect pool since 2008.

Regardless of the Kessel trade, he has had 4 high picks for poor results in the standings. Had the prospect pool NOT improved I would be pretty bloody concerned at what the hell was going on.

It's no different than giving praise to Lowe for improving the Oilers prospects since 2008.

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12-02-2012, 06:50 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Let's just clarify:

Burke did not trade Seguin, Hamilton and Knight for Kessel.

Burke traded 3 draft picks for Kessel.

Huge difference.
what's the difference?

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12-02-2012, 06:51 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It's over guys. You can't undo the Kessel trade. You either accept it and move on or just cheer for another team.

It's been 3 and a half years.

Kessel is a superstar. I'm very happy with him.

Worrying about what could have been? Nah. I'm moving on with my life and I'm choosing to continue to cheer for the Leafs.
we can't change anything that has happened. we can't control anything that might happen in the future.

so should we all just stop talking about the leafs?

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Old
12-02-2012, 06:52 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
what's the difference?
You didn't know where the picks were going to land, nor who would
be picked.

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Old
12-02-2012, 07:01 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
You didn't know where the picks were going to land, nor who would
be picked.
does that make him any less responsible or accountable for the outcome of the trade?

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Old
12-02-2012, 07:11 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
what's the difference?
The picks were unknowns. Neither Burke nor Chiarelli knew where the picks would be.

Chiarelli said he thought the 1st one would be in the top 10 for sure, and I agree. It was pretty hard to picture the Leafs doing that well the next year.

However I doubt neither of them thought for a minute the pick would be top 3.

Surely the Leafs would beat the NYI, CLB, EDM, FLA and maybe a few others.

It was a perfect storm that led to the LEafs finishing 29th.

If the Seguin pick had been #4 or 5 instead of #2 this trade would be a huge success for Burke.

So to simplify the difference it would be like this:

You have Seguin, Knight(or someone else) and the #9 pick in the draft. Do you trade them for Kessel?
NO you don't.

BUt that isn't what was traded. The position of the picks were undetermined.

It was a gamble.

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Old
12-02-2012, 07:14 PM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It's over guys. You can't undo the Kessel trade. You either accept it and move on or just cheer for another team.

It's been 3 and a half years.

Kessel is a superstar. I'm very happy with him.

Worrying about what could have been? Nah. I'm moving on with my life and I'm choosing to continue to cheer for the Leafs.
He might be a superstar but I don't see this guy as a winner. I have a feeling he will disappear in big playoff games just like he is invisible when they play the bruins

It bugs me to say it but he just doesn't have that drive that was worth the hefty price paid

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Old
12-02-2012, 07:15 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
does that make him any less responsible or accountable for the outcome of the trade?
Less.

If the team had perfromed well enough(relative term)to finish 27th or 28th, this trade would be considered a hands down win for the Leafs.

As I said earlier.

Burke doesn't coach and Burke doesn't play.

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