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NHL markets (MOD: define small, medium, large)

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Old
12-02-2012, 06:50 PM
  #1
FoppaForsberg*
 
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NHL markets (MOD: define small, medium, large)

What would you say are every teams markets? Obviously NY, LA, Boston, and Toronto are big markets and Winnipeg, Edmonton, Minnesota,etc are the small markets but who would you say are the "middle" markets? Colorado? SJ? Montreal?

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12-02-2012, 06:52 PM
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I would say Winnipeg and Edmonton are big markets.


They make money regardless of population

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12-02-2012, 06:57 PM
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Vancouver's TV ratings say big market, our population says middle and our riots say small time.

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12-02-2012, 06:59 PM
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How are the Canadiens not a big market club? Are you talking about media markets or how popular a team is? I ask because Phoenix is around the 15th biggest US market with an "unpopular" NHL team while Pittsburgh is somewhere around 23rd with one of the most "popular" NHL teams.

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12-02-2012, 07:00 PM
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KidLine93
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Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row

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12-02-2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
What would you say are every teams markets? Obviously NY, LA, Boston, and Toronto are big markets and Winnipeg, Edmonton, Minnesota,etc are the small markets but who would you say are the "middle" markets? Colorado? SJ? Montreal?
Lol, how did I miss Montreal as a "middle market".

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12-02-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by KidLine93 View Post
Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row
Making more than "half" the teams doesn't make Edmonton a big market.

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12-02-2012, 07:11 PM
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http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...the-bottom-up/

Here is an article with a list of operational revenues and income for all teams. A pretty good indicator for the markets there.

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Old
12-02-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Lol, how did I miss Montreal as a "middle market".
This is why i'm asking, I'm not sure if any Canadian club except for Toronto are big markets. No need to be ignorant.

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12-02-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
This is why i'm asking, I'm not sure if any Canadian club except for Toronto are big markets. No need to be ignorant.
You are in Canada, I have to admit I am shocked that it wasn't obvious. My apologies.

Montreal is valued at #3 in the NHL because of the size of it's market.

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12-02-2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...the-bottom-up/

Here is an article with a list of operational revenues and income for all teams. A pretty good indicator for the markets there.
That was a nice link. OP, check that out. It takes into account a few factors.

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12-02-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by craigcaulks View Post
Lol, how did I miss Montreal as a "middle market".
Yeah not sure what qualifies Boston at 4.5 million as big market yet Montreal at 3.8 million is only middle market. Also, Minneapolis-St Paul has a metropolitan area of 3.3 million. It should be middle market not small market.

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12-02-2012, 08:03 PM
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The OP needs to define market more clearly. Population size of the respective greater metropolitan areas? Potential revenue base?

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12-02-2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
What would you say are every teams markets? Obviously NY, LA, Boston, and Toronto are big markets and Winnipeg, Edmonton, Minnesota,etc are the small markets but who would you say are the "middle" markets? Colorado? SJ? Montreal?
If you equate population to market, that info can be gotten from the census. Calling Montreal a middle NHL maket ( behind Boston and freaking la) is laughable. Really, laughable.

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12-02-2012, 08:39 PM
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When I say markets I mean population, income, "players that live to play for once they hit UFA "type of deal, etc etc.

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12-02-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg View Post
When I say markets I mean population, income, "players that live to play for once they hit UFA "type of deal, etc etc.
There's a cap so no team could outspend for Ufa's more than any other. That and population does not equal market. La has way more people than Montreal and it certainly is a much bigger market for many things but hokey ain't one of them.

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12-02-2012, 10:21 PM
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LA is not a hockey market, Highschool football is more popular in LA.

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12-02-2012, 10:29 PM
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Wouldn't Minnesota be a big hockey market? They love hockey up there.

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12-02-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...the-bottom-up/

Here is an article with a list of operational revenues and income for all teams. A pretty good indicator for the markets there.
That article assign's Atlanta's operating income from the previous season to Winnipeg; as such it is not a good indicator regarding Winnipeg's operating income. The updated and much higher estimates that reflect the Winnipeg market can be found here...

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations...n:desc_search:
(scroll down)

Note the year-over-year jump in operating income.

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Old
12-02-2012, 10:50 PM
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Revenue is the best metric. That accounts for population, income, and fan interest.

You see this playing out in the NCAA football realignment. The Big East had, on paper, the huge markets in the BosNYWash megalopolis. But that didn't mean that much because a much smaller % of people in the Northeast care about college football compared to the Midwest and the South.

The best way to determine the biggest markets for hockey -- or any other good or service -- is to look at how much revenue that market generates.

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12-02-2012, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotchex View Post
Revenue is the best metric. That accounts for population, income, and fan interest.

You see this playing out in the NCAA football realignment. The Big East had, on paper, the huge markets in the BosNYWash megalopolis. But that didn't mean that much because a much smaller % of people in the Northeast care about college football compared to the Midwest and the South.

The best way to determine the biggest markets for hockey -- or any other good or service -- is to look at how much revenue that market generates.
I think that revenue per fan is also pretty good but it is derivative of total revenue but both ignore secondary market tickets, which does not end up in the teams pockets but is indicative of demand.

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12-02-2012, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
Wouldn't Minnesota be a big hockey market? They love hockey up there.
The Wild are only a middle of the road market because there's so much hockey up here with the Gophs, bulldogs, Huskies, Mavericks, every other college team I can't seem to remember, and the fact that the State High School tournament sells more tickets than the Texas High School Football state tournament. The market is so saturated that people have to pick and choose.

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12-02-2012, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KidLine93 View Post
Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row
Edmonton is a small market team. Market is a sum of demand and potential.

Edmonton has no room for growth and if the NHL experienced some success with the big market teams then Edmonton would very quickly fall behind.

This is not to nit pick, at the end of the day Edmonton is a great market, and I dont believe for one second any of the southern american franchises in big markets ever come close to reaching their potential.

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12-03-2012, 01:24 AM
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What do you mean by market? TV market or hockey market?

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidLine93 View Post
Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row
3 first overall picks, not last place all 3 years

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