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12-02-2012, 07:44 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
And you are avoiding the truth and the Fact that when the trade was made the Names Knight, Seguin, and Hamilton were nowhere to be seen!
If the names of the players drafted were busts you sure would be spouting them as what a great deal Burke made....

The names of the players that where drafted with those picks are the outcome of the trade and when Judging the trade you use the names of the players drafted with those picks.....just like people have done with the Kabs trade using Biggs and Liles as part of the trade results of the Kabs trade when crediting Burke for his good trades.

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12-02-2012, 07:46 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Burke never played a ****ing shift.

How the hell is he responsible for what the team did on the ice?
Because HE is the one who brought all these players in, I don't know how it can be any more clear cut then that.

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12-02-2012, 07:47 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
This^^^^^^ I'm trying to come up with an example of how to explain this- It would be like a daycare owner hiring a worker, said worker goes on to abuse the kids at the centre. An investigation is formed and the worker is charged, but also the owner would be responsible too because he hired the worker for the daycare, I hope that example makes sense lol.
YOu can't think of an example because what your trying to say makes no sense.

Burke never touched the puck so how did influence wins and loses other than the personel he brought in? The game still has to be played and ultimatly it comes down to the players doing their job.

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12-02-2012, 07:48 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Because HE is the one who brought all these players in, I don't know how it can be any more clear cut then that.
The players have to play the game. How can it be more clear cut than that?

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12-02-2012, 07:49 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Because HE is the one who brought all these players in, I don't know how it can be any more clear cut then that.
Shocking that some people believe the GM that put together a brutal team shouldn't be held accountable .

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12-02-2012, 07:51 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Burke never played a ****ing shift.

How the hell is he responsible for what the team did on the ice?


So why are you part of this discussion if you believe that the on ice performance of the team is not part of a GM responsibility?

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12-02-2012, 07:51 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
The players have to play the game. How can it be more clear cut than that?
Going by your logic, if the leafs win the cup then Burke gets no credit for the team because its the players that have to play right?

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12-02-2012, 07:52 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
If the names of the players drafted were busts you sure would be spouting them as what a great deal Burke made....

The names of the players that where drafted with those picks are the outcome of the trade and when Judging the trade you use the names of the players drafted with those picks.....just like people have done with the Kabs trade using Biggs and Liles as part of the trade results of the Kabs trade when crediting Burke for his good trades.
Ya me and you and everyone else on these boards.

This is what I've been saying for 3 years now. IF the Seguin pick had been #3 or 4 or 5 we would not be talking about it.

If Burke had made the offersheet to save us the difference between a 3rd and a 1st there is no way Chiarelli makes the Kaberle trade a year later.

In the end we lost the Kessel deal, but killed them on the Kaberle deal.

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12-02-2012, 07:54 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Thanks for twisting my words. Twisting them rediculously, but twisted none the less.

The picks were unknowns. Hard to value an unknown. Can you value an unknown or two for us?
hard to value an unknown, yet both general managers did exactly that. the agreed value for those picks was phil kessel.

draft picks are traded for players all the time. gms continually put a value on draft picks.

i'm not twisting anything, just showing you how ridiculous your logic is.

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12-02-2012, 07:55 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Going by your logic, if the leafs win the cup then Burke gets no credit for the team because its the players that have to play right?
Why the **** is it so Black and white with you "people"?

I have already said Burke does share some responsibility. BUt in the end the players have to play. The GM is far from the biggest reason a team becomes a champion.

His percentage would be one slice out of a 24 slice party pizza. Happy?

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12-02-2012, 07:57 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Shocking that some people believe the GM that put together a brutal team shouldn't be held accountable .
Shocking how some poeple want to hang the GM while giving a free pass to the coaching staff and players.

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12-02-2012, 07:57 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Burke never played a ****ing shift.

How the hell is he responsible for what the team did on the ice?
wow.

so if the leafs win the stanley in the next few years, with burke still the gm, you won't give him any credit? he won't be responsible at all for what happened on the ice?

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12-02-2012, 08:00 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
So why are you part of this discussion if you believe that the on ice performance of the team is not part of a GM responsibility?
What are you talking about?

I have said 20 or 30 times now that BUrke bears some responsibility. Just not that much. The coaches have to coach and the players have to play.

If Burke does everything in his power to provide the best roster available, how can you hang him when the coaches and players fail to execute? He did his job.

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12-02-2012, 08:02 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
wow.

so if the leafs win the stanley in the next few years, with burke still the gm, you won't give him any credit? he won't be responsible at all for what happened on the ice?
Seriously. Either read the posts or just go to bed.

Your post is BS and completely of base.

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12-02-2012, 08:04 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Seriously. Either read the posts or just go to bed.

Your post is BS and completely of base.
Just because you don't agree with his opinion doesn't mean its BS or off base, thats really rude of you to say that. I don't agree with your posts about Burke but I won't tell you your opinions are off basis or wrong, seriously lay off the guy.

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12-02-2012, 08:07 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Why the **** is it so Black and white with you "people"?

I have already said Burke does share some responsibility. BUt in the end the players have to play. The GM is far from the biggest reason a team becomes a champion.

His percentage would be one slice out of a 24 slice party pizza. Happy?
I wouldn't argue about the fact that a franchise gets broken down and essentially and it comes down to the players that have to execute.

I think a lot of people are saying that its Burke that chooses the system and players, so he is in part to blame because he's not getting good enough players to execute the plan.

Of course I think that its a closer split than what you're eluding too. A player comes into the league with a certain skill-set and is only able to play to what his ability is. Its like drafting Morgan Rielly and asking him to play a shutdown role with the Leafs. No. He's going to score goals and generate an attack. So what I'm trying to get to is, if you have too many players that aren't playing their roles, you won't be winning any games. ie Bozak playing 1st line centre and Lombardi playing a 3rd line shutdown role.

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12-02-2012, 08:08 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Shocking how some poeple want to hang the GM while giving a free pass to the coaching staff and players.
Who's giving the coach or the players a free ride ?

The coach lost his job and Burke has turned over the players constantly , how many more redo's are you going to give him before you hold him accountable ?

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12-02-2012, 08:12 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
If Burke does everything in his power to provide the best roster available, how can you hang him when the coaches and players fail to execute? He did his job.
do you see how every gm is history could argue this?

"hey, its not my fault the team is terrible. its just that the coach and the players are not executing. nothing i can do about that".

no gm would ever get fired.

and of course, no gm would ever get credit when his team wins.

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12-02-2012, 08:12 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
So you're saying in the previous years, minus the Oct/Nov slump the LEafs played well enough to make the playoffs?

I doubt it. PLease do the research and prove me wrong.
the leafs last were in a playoff spot after there 60th game last year at 65 points, they lost there 61st game and dropped out of 8th that same night and never got back in. the year before in there last 60 games of the season they accumulated 66 points, so they played at basically the same pace.

heck 65 pts in 60 games is an 88 point pace which isn't good enough to make the playoffs so really you should be going back even further even tho they were technically in a playoff spot at that point


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Old
12-02-2012, 08:16 PM
  #320
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He might be a superstar but I don't see this guy as a winner. I have a feeling he will disappear in big playoff games just like he is invisible when they play the bruins

It bugs me to say it but he just doesn't have that drive that was worth the hefty price paid
For the record, Kessel has 9 goals, 15 points and is +8 in 15 career playoff games. His performance in the playoffs is making your "gut Feeling" look wrong.

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12-02-2012, 08:17 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Just because you don't agree with his opinion doesn't mean its BS or off base, thats really rude of you to say that. I don't agree with your posts about Burke but I won't tell you your opinions are off basis or wrong, seriously lay off the guy.
Simply having an opinion doesn't protect you from being called out on it. You're entitled to your opinion just as much as you're responsible for defending it.

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12-02-2012, 08:17 PM
  #322
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we can't change anything that has happened. we can't control anything that might happen in the future.

so should we all just stop talking about the leafs?
If you've made your point 10 thousand times, you should start to talk about something else is all I'm saying.

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12-02-2012, 08:18 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
The numbers work out almost the same......857 Kessel, Seguin .827

The real difference is the age of the players.....

lets compare apples to apples then..... 19 18 37 at the same age and NHL experience.

Look back I never brought Kessel nor Seguin into this debate....so calling me names will not change that.
There's 1 year difference and Kessel had cancer to start his career.

And you did bring Seguin into that particular point for no reason.

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12-02-2012, 08:19 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Just because you don't agree with his opinion doesn't mean its BS or off base, thats really rude of you to say that. I don't agree with your posts about Burke but I won't tell you your opinions are off basis or wrong, seriously lay off the guy.
Nothing to do with his oppinion.

He obviously isn't paying attention. Asking me to repeat something for the 20th time.

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12-02-2012, 08:23 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Nothing to do with his oppinion.

He obviously isn't paying attention. Asking me to repeat something for the 20th time.
i'm paying attention, just trying to get you to clarify your outlandish opinion on this.

you obviously realize how ridiculous it is. you can't defend your position.

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