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Meet the worst starting QB in the league, Christian Ponder

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Old
12-02-2012, 07:58 PM
  #26
Dakota Sioux
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
In Ponder's defense it isn't like he has deep threats to get the ball to, or guys that run a complex route tree (which Harvin does not). The other QB's mentioned as the worst have guys like Bowe, Blackmon, Fitzgerald, Holmes...who they should have been able to get the ball to, but can't. Harvin hasn't played in a month either so this poor guy is even more screwed over.

In any case, he's a second year player who has only had the chance to be part of one full training camp, playing on a team that wasn't that good in the first place. You guys are jumping to conclusions. If you expect a guy to get the ball to Michael Jenkins with regularity, I don't really know of a single QB in the league who can do that, so Ponder's not alone in that company. He's facing an 8 man front because for some reason the Vikings don't have a single decent #2 or #3 receiver. With Harvin out, you can argue they don't have a wideout who belongs in the league at all!

The guy is not even close to the worst QB in the league, and maybe not even one of the worst, even though he was taken too high and not a good draft pick.
Ponder couldn't hit anyone deep anyways. He has a rubber arm. Adrian was wide open 40 yards downfield today and he came up 10 yards short. He sux. After todays game he is the King Of The Crappiest.

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12-02-2012, 08:04 PM
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He may not be able to hit anyone deep, but how would we know? The only chance he gets is when his all-world running back breaks through coverage and has a chance to get it, but that's pretty unlikely. Peterson's long reception for this season is 20 yards. There's not a single guy on the Vikings right now who I'd expect to catch a pass for more than 10 yards and that's the honest truth.

I get that Ponder likes checkdowns, but there isn't a team with a worse group of receivers than the Vikings without Harvin. It's hard to judge a QB properly in such a scenario.

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12-02-2012, 08:06 PM
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Dude, Ryan Lindley is starting games

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12-02-2012, 08:07 PM
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Dude, Ryan Lindley is starting games
Yeah but no one really considers him a starter in the real sense

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12-02-2012, 08:19 PM
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He may not be able to hit anyone deep, but how would we know? The only chance he gets is when his all-world running back breaks through coverage and has a chance to get it, but that's pretty unlikely. Peterson's long reception for this season is 20 yards. There's not a single guy on the Vikings right now who I'd expect to catch a pass for more than 10 yards and that's the honest truth.

I get that Ponder likes checkdowns, but there isn't a team with a worse group of receivers than the Vikings without Harvin. It's hard to judge a QB properly in such a scenario.
He sucked with Harvin.

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12-02-2012, 08:26 PM
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He may not be able to hit anyone deep, but how would we know? The only chance he gets is when his all-world running back breaks through coverage and has a chance to get it, but that's pretty unlikely. Peterson's long reception for this season is 20 yards. There's not a single guy on the Vikings right now who I'd expect to catch a pass for more than 10 yards and that's the honest truth.

I get that Ponder likes checkdowns, but there isn't a team with a worse group of receivers than the Vikings without Harvin. It's hard to judge a QB properly in such a scenario.
How many Viking games have you seen? By the sounds of things, few to none.

Vikes WRs are terrible. But that does not hide the fact that Ponder can't push the ball downfield even then they do get open. His arm strength is attrocious. Prior to Ponder, Harvin's primary game was as a deep threat (how he cut his teeth with Favre). Simpson was brought in specifically to be the deep threat.

Bottom line, with Ponder under center, your eliminate everything in the playbook further than 20 yards downfield. He simply cannot complete those throws.

He may not be the worst QB in the league, but he is close. And shown little to no development thus far. He is a bust.

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12-02-2012, 08:27 PM
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How many Viking games have you seen? By the sounds of things, few to none.

Vikes WRs are terrible. But that does not hide the fact that Ponder can't push the ball downfield even then they do get open. His arm strength is attrocious. Prior to Ponder, Harvin's primary game was as a deep threat (how he cut his teeth with Favre). Simpson was brought in specifically to be the deep threat.

Bottom line, with Ponder under center, your eliminate everything in the playbook further than 20 yards downfield. He simply cannot complete those throws.

He may not be the worst QB in the league, but he is close. And shown little to no development thus far. He is a bust.
he also almost immediately looks for his checkdown instead of surveying the field

Also locks onto guys allowing CB's/S to jump routes

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12-02-2012, 08:29 PM
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Dude, Ryan Lindley is starting games
He was absolutely horrendous today. The one specific play where he overthrew Larry ****ing Fitzgerald was amazing.

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12-02-2012, 08:44 PM
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How many Viking games have you seen? By the sounds of things, few to none.

Vikes WRs are terrible. But that does not hide the fact that Ponder can't push the ball downfield even then they do get open. His arm strength is attrocious. Prior to Ponder, Harvin's primary game was as a deep threat (how he cut his teeth with Favre). Simpson was brought in specifically to be the deep threat.

Bottom line, with Ponder under center, your eliminate everything in the playbook further than 20 yards downfield. He simply cannot complete those throws.

He may not be the worst QB in the league, but he is close. And shown little to no development thus far. He is a bust.
Seen plenty of Vikings games, enough to know that you guys are overlooking the worst receiving corps in the league so that you can take shots at the QB instead. There's not a single receiver on that team I'd take on my crappy 3-8 team now, much less a 6-6 squad.

The Vikings expecting Jerome Simpson, Michael Jenkins, and Devin Aromashodu to give Ponder a target to throw at is nothing short of silly. If Simpson was brought in to be a deep threat, that's funny, 83 catches in his career to date doesn't really spell out reliable deep threat to me. Once again the Vikings tried patching up things via free agent receivers who were scrubs for all but one year of their career and it didn't work. Percy Harvin's career long of 53 yards doesn't make him a deep threat either, this is the first time I've ever heard him called a deep threat. Nobody outside of Vikings fans consider Harvin to be a deep threat, he is a short game receiver capable of breaking tackles and running a long way, with electric speed in tight situations. That's a lot different than a DeSean Jackson who you expect to catch nothing but deep balls. They have the same speed and body profile sure, but one is a deep threat and one isn't.

The WR's are terrible, you said it yourself. Unless it's a Tom Brady behind center, how can you expect the QB to do anything right in that scenario? The Vikings have had bad receivers a lot in the past few years and only had one full year of Harvin and Rice together, but they've completely neglected to replace Rice and with Harvin now out, they have nothing. So I don't know what you expect. Any below-average secondary could completely neutralize the Vikings in the passing game, and while I don't think Ponder's all that good, it's premature to call him a bust when he's had one NFL receiver in his 23 games as an NFL starter, yet somehow crafted more TD's than interceptions out of that whole deal. Getting all upset because he can't throw his way through the Bears and Packers is absolutely ridiculous.

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12-02-2012, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Seen plenty of Vikings games, enough to know that you guys are overlooking the worst receiving corps in the league so that you can take shots at the QB instead.

The Vikings expecting Jerome Simpson, Michael Jenkins, and Devin Aromashodu to give Ponder a target to throw at is nothing short of silly. If Simpson was brought in to be a deep threat, that's funny, 83 catches in his career to date doesn't really spell out reliable deep threat to me. Neither does Percy Harvin's career long of 53 yards, this is the first time I've ever heard him called a deep threat. Nobody outside of Vikings fans consider Harvin to be a deep threat, he is a short game receiver capable of breaking tackles and running a long way, with electric speed in tight situations. That's a lot different than a DeSean Jackson who you expect to catch nothing but deep balls.

The WR's are terrible, you said it yourself. Unless it's a Tom Brady behind center, how can you expect the QB to do anything right in that scenario? The Vikings have had bad receivers a lot in the past few years and only had one full year of Harvin and Rice together, but they've completely neglected to replace Rice and with Harvin now out, they have nothing. So I don't know what you expect. Any below-average secondary could completely neutralize the Vikings in the passing game, and while I don't think Ponder's all that good, it's premature to call him a bust when he's had one NFL receiver in his 23 games as an NFL starter, yet somehow crafted more TD's than interceptions out of that whole deal.
Aromashadu isn't terrible.. He was productive with Cutler before Martz ended that

Jenkins is solid vet depth WR

Simpson sucks ,, But when he is open deep Ponder cant hit him

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12-02-2012, 08:49 PM
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Aromashodu has had 47 catches in the last three years, he's a #4 guy at best. Never thought anything of Jenkins, he's just an average possession receiver. It's wrong to expect Ponder to do anything with these guys though. In the roles they're currently occupying, they're terrible and none of them should be outside of a slot receiver role.

I didn't think they were anything more than a 5-11 team heading into the season, anything more than that is just bonus considering how they've decided to build their roster and lay everything on a few players.

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12-02-2012, 08:50 PM
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Aromashadu isn't terrible.. He was productive with Cutler before Martz ended that

Jenkins is solid vet depth WR

Simpson sucks ,, But when he is open deep Ponder cant hit him
Agree. How anyone can defend Ponder is beyond me. I gave him a chance and that chance ran out 3 weeks ago. But the coaches will go back to him and run the same crap( not including AP) next week and will get the same results. Today the Vikes would of won had they had just an average guy under center.

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12-02-2012, 08:53 PM
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Ponder looks like he has a bright future as a decent backup QB. Not the worst life.

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12-02-2012, 08:53 PM
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Aromashodu has had 47 catches in the last three years, he's a #4 guy at best. .
Take out 2010 when Martz basically benched him the entire year he was productive in 09 and 11 in limited role

He has talent

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12-02-2012, 08:54 PM
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Ponder looks like he has a bright future as a decent backup QB. Not the worst life.
Chance to be the next Brady Quinn

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12-02-2012, 08:55 PM
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Charch says it like it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYYY...e_gdata_player

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12-02-2012, 08:55 PM
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He was absolutely horrendous today. The one specific play where he overthrew Larry ****ing Fitzgerald was amazing.
I was at the game today and a good 25-50% of his passes I really couldn't tell you where he was throwing the ball. Sometimes there wasn't a receiver within 20 yards and he wasn't throwing the ball away either. Sanchez threw three picks, didn't hit a 100 yards, and his completion percentage was less than 50% and Sanchez still wasn't the worst QB on the field today.

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12-02-2012, 08:59 PM
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Take out 2010 when Martz basically benched him the entire year he was productive in 09 and 11 in limited role

He has talent
Talent sure, good receiver no. Career high is 26 catches. Right now he's their third receiver in a group where nobody demands extra attention over the top or double coverage. That has disaster written all over it for any QB. Plus they know none of these guys can run past coverage or break a tackle. It is a catastrophic scenario for their offense.

Anyway, to the guy who said the Vikings would have won with an average QB, well that's what Ponder is, an average QB. He made one really huge screwup in the red zone, but that's par for the course for any young QB. When you expect a QB to make chicken salad out of crap that happens sometimes, I've seen it before. And I have seen way worse QB's than Ponder play for my team.

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12-02-2012, 09:00 PM
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Talent sure, good receiver no. Career high is 26 catches. Right now he's their third receiver in a group where nobody demands extra attention over the top or double coverage. That has disaster written all over it for any QB.

Anyway, to the guy who said the Vikings would have won with an average QB, well that's what Ponder is, an average QB. He made one really huge screwup in the red zone, but that's par for the course for any young QB. When you expect a QB to make chicken salad out of crap that happens sometimes, I've seen it before. And I have seen way worse QB's than Ponder play for my team.
Cutler was productive in 2010 and 2011 with just as bad WR group

2010 = Knox , Hester , Bennett and Aramashodu
2011 = Knox , Williams , Hester and Bennett

No reason Ponder should be this bad with his WR's and best RB in NFL

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12-02-2012, 09:05 PM
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Cutler was productive in 2010 and 2011 with just as bad WR group

2010 = Knox , Hester , Bennett and Aramashodu
2011 = Knox , Williams , Hester and Bennett

No reason Ponder should be this bad with his WR's and best RB in NFL
First, Knox and Hester are way better receivers than anyone currently in the lineup for the Vikings. Even somebody like Hester would give them a dimension they don't have, he would attract safety attention and could break tackles and make a play. None of the current Vikings are running past anyone.

Cutler was in his 4th and 5th year then, and I think it's unanimous that he has more natural talent than Ponder as well. With Ponder in his second year it is difficult to expect the same performances from him.

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12-02-2012, 09:07 PM
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Talent sure, good receiver no. Career high is 26 catches. Right now he's their third receiver in a group where nobody demands extra attention over the top or double coverage. That has disaster written all over it for any QB. Plus they know none of these guys can run past coverage or break a tackle. It is a catastrophic scenario for their offense.

Anyway, to the guy who said the Vikings would have won with an average QB, well that's what Ponder is, an average QB. He made one really huge screwup in the red zone, but that's par for the course for any young QB. When you expect a QB to make chicken salad out of crap that happens sometimes, I've seen it before. And I have seen way worse QB's than Ponder play for my team.
I said it and he is far from average. He couldn't even hit guys that were wide open from 10 yards away today. He stinks.

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12-02-2012, 09:10 PM
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Says it all right there. Leslie Frasier and a few other coaches on that team should be gone by the end of the season.

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12-02-2012, 09:11 PM
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First, Knox and Hester are way better receivers than anyone currently in the lineup for the Vikings. Even somebody like Hester would give them a dimension they don't have, he would attract safety attention and could break tackles and make a play. None of the current Vikings are running past anyone.

Cutler was in his 4th and 5th year then, and I think it's unanimous that he has more natural talent than Ponder as well. With Ponder in his second year it is difficult to expect the same performances from him.
Ok

Kyle Orton who is a game manager type (What the Vikes need Ponder to be)

Had a WR core of

Devin Hester , Rashied Davis , Brandon Lloyd (When he sucked) and Marty Booker (When he was old and brokeN) in 2008

Put forth the type of year the Vikes would wish from Ponder right now

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12-02-2012, 09:11 PM
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Says it all right there. Leslie Frasier and a few other coaches on that team should be gone by the end of the season.
Doubt it happens

The Vikes being in playoff hunt probably bought Frasier at least another year

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12-02-2012, 09:13 PM
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Doubt it happens

The Vikes being in playoff hunt probably bought Frasier at least another year
Ugh. I hope your wrong about that.

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