HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Notices

Mika Zibanejad is the real deal.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-03-2012, 12:13 AM
  #826
DJB
Sens best prospect
 
DJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,605
vCash: 50
Zibanejad's biggest downfall though is still his hockey sense. Pretty hard to develop that aspect of you're game.

That's what concerns me the most about him. A poor man Mike Fisher with less grit and toughness.

DJB is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 01:13 AM
  #827
DylanSensFan
Walk On!
 
DylanSensFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,445
vCash: 1470
Hockey sense? You don't see a play break down at a blue line, a player rush the puck and waltz into the offensive zone, then go forehand backhand past one of the best goalies in the WJC tournament without having some sort of hockey sense. You also don't take a puck out of mid-air from a Chris Neil rebound and knock it into the net without some sort of hockey sense. Or take a Lee pass on the side wall and absolutely hammer a one timer. The kid is raw and all we are doing is being idiots in criticizing him for not being at a certain level. Silfverberg is older than Zibanejad and spent his last season in the SEL on a championship team... he should be way the hell ahead of Zibanejad in development and it shouldn't even be a question of who is better right now, or who needs more time. Zibanejad is keeping pace with the top scorers in Bingo and playing on the top line, drawing the most attention on the ice. For 19 years old first time as a full-time professional in the AHL, he is doing well.

DylanSensFan is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 01:22 AM
  #828
DylanSensFan
Walk On!
 
DylanSensFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,445
vCash: 1470
http://www.phantomshockey.com/Pages/Team/stats.asp

couturier may be managing points, but his defensive game stinks and it seems that philly's AHL offense is top heavy.

DylanSensFan is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 01:51 AM
  #829
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 20,179
vCash: 50
I don't understand why we keep comparing these two. Why not compare em with Hamilton or Bartschi because I think those two will be better than Couts.

ReginKarlssonLehner is online now  
Old
12-03-2012, 03:01 AM
  #830
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bogor, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I don't understand why we keep comparing these two. Why not compare em with Hamilton or Bartschi because I think those two will be better than Couts.
Sven Baertschi

BonkTastic is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 06:00 AM
  #831
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,184
vCash: 500
Swedish Hockey Federation will "fight" for Ziba to be with them to Ufa. They would, however, agree to a deal that would send Mika back ASAP if a CBA was signed. It sounds like a weird condition but one of the reasons the Sens gave Sweden was that they'd want him in Ottawa for camp if that started.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
http://www.phantomshockey.com/Pages/Team/stats.asp

couturier may be managing points, but his defensive game stinks and it seems that philly's AHL offense is top heavy.
Really? The player playing the toughest minutes on the Philadelphia Flyers (and doing it well) is bad defensively?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I don't understand why we keep comparing these two. Why not compare em with Hamilton or Bartschi because I think those two will be better than Couts.
True, but passing on Couturier was the most "controversial" decision because of the hype and what he did in juniors leading up to the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
Hockey sense? You don't see a play break down at a blue line, a player rush the puck and waltz into the offensive zone, then go forehand backhand past one of the best goalies in the WJC tournament without having some sort of hockey sense. You also don't take a puck out of mid-air from a Chris Neil rebound and knock it into the net without some sort of hockey sense. Or take a Lee pass on the side wall and absolutely hammer a one timer. The kid is raw and all we are doing is being idiots in criticizing him for not being at a certain level. Silfverberg is older than Zibanejad and spent his last season in the SEL on a championship team... he should be way the hell ahead of Zibanejad in development and it shouldn't even be a question of who is better right now, or who needs more time. Zibanejad is keeping pace with the top scorers in Bingo and playing on the top line, drawing the most attention on the ice. For 19 years old first time as a full-time professional in the AHL, he is doing well.
I don't get why we are comparing Silfverberg to Zibanejad. The main question here seems to be whether or not Zibanejad will live up to his #6, not if he's a better prospect than Silfverberg.

sg58 is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 06:07 AM
  #832
Nac Mac Feegle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,167
vCash: 50
Couturier was heavily insulated by the Flyers last year. And, despite that farce of a first round, they have a strong team overall (if you ignore the nutball in goal). This might be a case where the kid pretty much hits 90% of his potential in his rookie season, and doesn't progress noticably stat-wise beyond this point.

And if the rumors in his draft year about a lack of work ethic are true, chances are his first year success will give the kid a false sense of security in his NHL job and this sophomore seasn might even see a dip in his play.

Nac Mac Feegle is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 06:13 AM
  #833
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,184
vCash: 500
More Rönnberg: "It's damn sad that Canadians in Senators management are going to decide what happens with the Swedish national team."



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Couturier was heavily insulated by the Flyers last year. And, despite that farce of a first round, they have a strong team overall (if you ignore the nutball in goal). This might be a case where the kid pretty much hits 90% of his potential in his rookie season, and doesn't progress noticably stat-wise beyond this point.

And if the rumors in his draft year about a lack of work ethic are true, chances are his first year success will give the kid a false sense of security in his NHL job and this sophomore seasn might even see a dip in his play.
How was he insulated? If you're saying what I think you are, I'd argue quite the opposite.

sg58 is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 07:31 AM
  #834
derriko
Registered User
 
derriko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 2,757
vCash: 4116
The thing I dont get is why Zib never gets compared with Mark Scheifele either. You dont ever hear his name, but he was also taken before Couturier.

derriko is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 07:50 AM
  #835
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bogor, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
How was he insulated? If you're saying what I think you are, I'd argue quite the opposite.
Agreed. Couturier was one of the top-3 least insulated rookies last year, after Landeskog and JT Wyman (Lightning defensive specialist, for lack of a better definition). Very high quality of competition, and a ton of defensive-zone starts.

You can say things about Couturier's rookie year, but "insulated" for sure isn't one of them.

BonkTastic is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 08:50 AM
  #836
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,708
vCash: 500
Why are freaking out about couturier anyways he Had 1 great game. It's not that he's not a good player but really it's not like he was a superstar or anything. Personally if he never had that hatrick he would be irrelevant right now... One game and everyone is memorized by him.

I'm pretty sure Zibanejad could have hit 27 points on the sens last year.

BK201 is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 09:37 AM
  #837
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 22,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Zibanejad's biggest downfall though is still his hockey sense. Pretty hard to develop that aspect of you're game.

That's what concerns me the most about him. A poor man Mike Fisher with less grit and toughness.
Even if he's got the same lack of hockey sense as Mike Fisher he's perfectly capable, given more talent and skill, to be a more offensive player than Fisher.

It's a misconception that hockey sense is needed to be a scorer.

Minister of Offence is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 09:40 AM
  #838
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 22,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
Hockey sense? You don't see a play break down at a blue line, a player rush the puck and waltz into the offensive zone, then go forehand backhand past one of the best goalies in the WJC tournament without having some sort of hockey sense..
Sure you do. But either way, nit picking his career's greatest moment to show people he has hockey sense isn't exactly convincing. Generally, he doesn't play with an abundance of hockey IQ...that doesn't mean he can't be something. Alex Ovechkin plays without hockey sense every night and people thought he could score 60.

Minister of Offence is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 10:23 AM
  #839
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6,708
vCash: 500
I see Zibanejad being a better player than Foligno, what that infers you guys can figure out yourselves.

BK201 is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 10:24 AM
  #840
OgieO
Registered User
 
OgieO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,030
vCash: 500
Knocking his hockey sense is silly and premature, imo. He's still adjusting to the small ice - that would make his hockey sense look off. He also played wing at the last WJHC after being a natural C. Heck, he looks much better in Bingo playing C compared to wing.

Look what's starting to happen with Silfverberg as he gets comfortable playing on small ice. Give Zibanejad time to settle in - this is a development year. We can start putting production expectations on him next year.


Last edited by OgieO: 12-03-2012 at 11:42 AM.
OgieO is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 10:47 AM
  #841
Xspyrit
Registered User
 
Xspyrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 12,933
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
It's not hindsight when the whole world is watching Couturier drop. It's not hindsight when Staal & Kopitar are available and your GM picks some high school kid nobody had ever heard of.

Pronger over Daigle, or looking at a draft 5 years later and seeing stars picked late and *****ing about your draft... THAT is hindsight.
Lee over Staal and Kopitar ok but just with my gut feeling, I still wouldn't pick Couturier over Zibanejad if we were re-doing the draft... Even if Mika busts, I would regret (however I have no real regrets concerning a freaking entertainment) that we passed on other players, not Couturier.

No idea why people keep going with this discussion. It is WAY WAY TOO EARLY to draw any conclusions.

No idea how many times I will have to repeat that until some people realize that it is more true than true...

The comparisons are useless until at least 2015

Xspyrit is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 12:38 PM
  #842
General Granny*
 
General Granny*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 986
vCash: 500
Just release the kid to the tournament, the team is doing great right now and based on chemistry there is no proper spot for him in the top 9 until Schneider stops scoring or someone else gets injured.

Plus Sens fans only have 2 players to follow at this year's WJC.

General Granny* is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 01:34 PM
  #843
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 22,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OgieO View Post
Knocking his hockey sense is silly and premature, imo. He's still adjusting to the small ice - that would make his hockey sense look off. He also played wing at the last WJHC after being a natural C. Heck, he looks much better in Bingo playing C compared to wing.

Look what's starting to happen with Silfverberg as he gets comfortable playing on small ice. Give Zibanejad time to settle in - this is a development year. We can start putting production expectations on him next year.
He's never really played with high end hockey sense wherever he's played. Like I said, this isn't a dealbreaker in terms of being a scoring forward, although some act like it is.

Milan Michalek isn't exactly the craftiest mind with the puck either. And skill and size-wise these two players are pretty similar.

Minister of Offence is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 01:37 PM
  #844
WasTeD
Gettn Wiggy wit it
 
WasTeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: in your head
Country: Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 14,043
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to WasTeD
At least he has more hockey sense then MPS lol.

WasTeD is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 07:27 PM
  #845
Ski
Calder Cup Champs
 
Ski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Binghamton, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,005
vCash: 500
This, is interesting..

Swedish coach angry (Roger Ronnberg is livid) Senators won’t make Zibanejad available for world juniors

“They (North Americans) are pretty stubborn. It’s a game of power against Europe, this.”

Ronnberg says he won’t get directly involved, but that the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation will look at all its options to possibly overturn the Senators decision.

The Senators offered no comment Monday when asked about Ronnberg’s words.

====
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...tm_source=t.co




Now, can anyone confirm, what exactly is keeping Zib off the ice..he hasn't been skating and all we are getting is 'upper body injury' which now is starting to look sketchy IMO..

Ski is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 08:18 PM
  #846
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,458
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski View Post
This, is interesting..

Swedish coach angry (Roger Ronnberg is livid) Senators won’t make Zibanejad available for world juniors

“They (North Americans) are pretty stubborn. It’s a game of power against Europe, this.”

Ronnberg says he won’t get directly involved, but that the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation will look at all its options to possibly overturn the Senators decision.

The Senators offered no comment Monday when asked about Ronnberg’s words.

====
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...tm_source=t.co




Now, can anyone confirm, what exactly is keeping Zib off the ice..he hasn't been skating and all we are getting is 'upper body injury' which now is starting to look sketchy IMO..
Sick and wisdom teeth removed is what we think we know.
Not sure what the problem here is if what tim murray (who i trust even though i don't know him personally) says is true, that it was zibanejad's decision to stay here.
Personally i think it's better for everyone that he stays. Let some other guys on sweden step up in his place.

Icelevel is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 08:57 PM
  #847
ReginKarlssonLehner
Classless, no rispek
 
ReginKarlssonLehner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 20,179
vCash: 50
I've thought this over many times and staying in Bingo, being more used to the NA ice playing against Pro's, is the best thing for Zibanejad's development. He needs to improve, not go back to top being the hero last year. Especially the games in Decemeber in the AHL will help him know the required ability he needs to have to succeed in the big-leagues.

ReginKarlssonLehner is online now  
Old
12-03-2012, 10:28 PM
  #848
John Holmes
Spuds MacLean™
 
John Holmes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,741
vCash: 87
They should let him go. I don't see how a couple of weeks playing on big ice is going to hurt. Competition level will be extremely high with all the potential NHL'ers available.

John Holmes is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 11:15 PM
  #849
DJB
Sens best prospect
 
DJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,605
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I don't understand why we keep comparing these two. Why not compare em with Hamilton or Bartschi because I think those two will be better than Couts.
Interestingly, Baetschi was apparently pretty high up on our list as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Even if he's got the same lack of hockey sense as Mike Fisher he's perfectly capable, given more talent and skill, to be a more offensive player than Fisher.

It's a misconception that hockey sense is needed to be a scorer.
True. Ovechkin and Michalek can attest to that. It just depends if Zib can overcome it or not.

DJB is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 11:17 PM
  #850
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 22,776
vCash: 500
Probably closer to 3-4 weeks. Big ice. Away from current team.

The 11 hour time difference doesn't bode well for significant jet lag either.

For whatever reasons they may be, they felt like last year's development situation was next from a waste of time. Regardless of right or wrong, or who's at fault, if that's the case, don't take chances with the above if you have the option of just keeping him where you want.

I agree that if he was Canadian he'd probably be going. Not because any NHL teams are out to give Canada an advantage, I just don't think any Canadian team could handle the ridicule in their own country holding a Canadian junior back.

Minister of Offence is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.