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Phoenix LXVI: Get Your Kicks On Thread LXVI

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Old
12-03-2012, 08:30 AM
  #351
cbcwpg
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Wow this thread died rather quickly...
We are in a holding pattern on a 30 day referendum watch. That is the next big thing.

Jamison said it was going to be 30 - 60 days before he can close on buying the team, so that means nothing happening on that front until mid January ( if at all ). So it's sit and watch what happens via the referendum.

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12-03-2012, 08:47 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
We are in a holding pattern on a 30 day referendum watch. That is the next big thing.

Jamison said it was going to be 30 - 60 days before he can close on buying the team, so that means nothing happening on that front until mid January ( if at all ). So it's sit and watch what happens via the referendum.
Better not be more that 60 days or that end of January kill date in the lease agreement comes into effect.

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12-03-2012, 09:26 AM
  #353
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Better not be more that 60 days or that end of January kill date in the lease agreement comes into effect.
when is the new council sworn in?

if the agreement voted on last week does lapse on jan31, it is 100% guaranteed that the new council will not support it if it were to be put to another vote after Jan31?

might the end of january actually be the very first real deadline in this entire saga?

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12-03-2012, 10:15 AM
  #354
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The new COG council comes into play Jan 16, 2013. If its getting close to the Jan 31st deadline they can start the work prior to void the lease according to the COG meeting. Then when Jan 31st comes they can void it completely as they would have the paperwork and such in place.

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12-03-2012, 10:37 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
The new COG council comes into play Jan 16, 2013. If its getting close to the Jan 31st deadline they can start the work prior to void the lease according to the COG meeting. Then when Jan 31st comes they can void it completely as they would have the paperwork and such in place.
would they have to wait until the 31st? is it not possible for them to rescind the yet unsigned agreement prior to that, as soon as they take office?

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12-03-2012, 11:05 AM
  #356
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This deal will not be completed by the 31st of january and thus will end the reign of the PHX Coyotes in Glendale and Jobing.com arena. GJ has never been a legitimate buyer, why would he be if he is paying a premium for the worst economics in the league?

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12-03-2012, 11:10 AM
  #357
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^ if it is unsigned I don't see why not. The new council should be able to review and revote on any unsigned deals.

Hell, you can modify any deal if it is unsigned. Once it's signed it would be much harder to do so. And by signed I mean signed by both parties. One could refuse to sign until modified.

*EDIT* I agree with you Mesa, to further expand on your point why would GJ leave so much money on the table with the old agreement, the new one cut him back quite a bit.

And this is no shot at the citizens or fans, but one thing that really bothered me was the fact that residents from Phoenix were not only allowed to attend but speak at the meetings. Their opinions on the matter shouldn't be heard publicly since they won't be paying for the AMF via increased taxes.


Last edited by ajmidd12: 12-03-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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12-03-2012, 11:21 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by GuelphStormer View Post
it is 100% guaranteed that...
- Death
- Taxes

[End of 100% Guarantees]

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12-03-2012, 11:35 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
- Death
- Taxes

[End of 100% Guarantees]
Not true. Sun will rise in the east and set in the west. The public comment section of the next Glendale City Council meeting will be funny. My boy Arthur LaRoy Thurston will speak. I got a million of them

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12-03-2012, 11:44 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
^ if it is unsigned I don't see why not. The new council should be able to review and revote on any unsigned deals.

Hell, you can modify any deal if it is unsigned. Once it's signed it would be much harder to do so. And by signed I mean signed by both parties. One could refuse to sign until modified.

*EDIT* I agree with you Mesa, to further expand on your point why would GJ leave so much money on the table with the old agreement, the new one cut him back quite a bit.

And this is no shot at the citizens or fans, but one thing that really bothered me was the fact that residents from Phoenix were not only allowed to attend but speak at the meetings. Their opinions on the matter shouldn't be heard publicly since they won't be paying for the AMF via increased taxes.
My girlfriend's american and I asked her what her thoughts were about this. She said not letting them speak would be considered essentially un-american (or at least viewed that way by many). She did say they shouldn't have a vote (which they didn't, only the council members did).

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Old
12-03-2012, 12:02 PM
  #361
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Who are these "Moody's" guys? Aren't they familiar with "Clarkonomics"?

Quote:
sonu munshi ‏@smunshi
Moody's downgrades #Glendale's general obligation bond rating; cites payments to NHL for operating losses of the Phoenix Coyotes.

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12-03-2012, 12:05 PM
  #362
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Who are these "Moody's" guys? Aren't they familiar with "Clarkonomics"?
Quote:
Anthony Winter ‏@ppd7952
@smunshi how about calling the payments what they are? The arena management fee. Gawddamn you're stupid.


Oops. Somebody hasn't been paying attention.

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12-03-2012, 12:07 PM
  #363
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Oops. Somebody hasn't been paying attention.
Of course, it's all the fault of the Goldwater Institute. Moody's never does anything without first getting advice from the fringe right wing public interest group.

Quote:
George Fallar ‏@gfallar
@smunshi Do we know if @GoldwaterInst wrote another one of their letters to Moody's recently?

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12-03-2012, 12:15 PM
  #364
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Of course, it's all the fault of the Goldwater Institute. Moody's never does anything without first getting advice from the fringe right wing public interest group.
For crying out loud George. In their last rating action Moody's explicitly stated they would downgrade if they supported the NHL franchise.

http://www.moodys.com/research/MOODY...ISE--PR_235820

Quote:
WHAT COULD MAKE THE RATING GO UP

- Improved general fund reserves to levels more in-line with peers nationally

- Trend of substantial tax base growth

WHAT COULD MAKE THE RATING GO DOWN

- Continued, significant financial assistance to the Coyotes hockey team that further strains the city's finances

- Further declines in economically-sensitive revenues or tax base that exacerbates budgetary challenges

- Increased debt burden, including additional leveraging of the city's excise tax revenues
Those evil Canadian conspirators at Moody's

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12-03-2012, 12:23 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
For crying out loud George. In their last rating action Moody's explicitly stated they would downgrade if they supported the NHL franchise.

http://www.moodys.com/research/MOODY...ISE--PR_235820



Those evil Canadian conspirators at Moody's
Well, since the COG is doing so much to subsidize the team, it seems only fair that investors should also contribute their fair share.

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12-03-2012, 01:01 PM
  #366
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Well, since the COG is doing so much to subsidize the team, it seems only fair that investors should also contribute their fair share.
so when this comes up during the grad class, should we put this in the domino folder or the house of cards folder?

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12-03-2012, 01:12 PM
  #367
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Of course, it's all the fault of the Goldwater Institute. Moody's never does anything without first getting advice from the fringe right wing public interest group.
OMG, Fallar is just 32 flavours of stupid....

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12-03-2012, 01:17 PM
  #368
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The downgrade of the city's unlimited tax G.O. rating to A2 primarily reflects high exposure to enterprise risk and related deterioration of the city's financial position driven by payments to the National Hockey League (NHL) for operating losses of the Phoenix Coyotes; this led to significant declines in general fund reserves in fiscal years 2011 and 2012. The downgrade also reflects continued though moderating declines in the city's tax base and economy driven by the effects of a broad housing downturn and a recessionary environment expected to realize a slow recovery. Additionally, the downgrade reflects volatility in economically-sensitive excise tax revenues that are the general fund's largest operating resources, and a high debt burden that includes significant leveraging of excise taxes to support sports facilities with revenues that would otherwise be available for general operations.
An excerpt of the reason of the downgrade.

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12-03-2012, 01:36 PM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
^

And this is no shot at the citizens or fans, but one thing that really bothered me was the fact that residents from Phoenix were not only allowed to attend but speak at the meetings. Their opinions on the matter shouldn't be heard publicly since they won't be paying for the AMF via increased taxes.
I too thought that was highly unusual, if you don't live in Glendale, own property in Glendale and can't vote in Glendale what business do you have speaking on any topic at one of their city council meetings.

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12-03-2012, 01:38 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
My girlfriend's american and I asked her what her thoughts were about this. She said not letting them speak would be considered essentially un-american (or at least viewed that way by many). She did say they shouldn't have a vote (which they didn't, only the council members did).
There is nothing wrong with letting them speak, at the end of the day all the speeches didn't amount to anything since everyone voted the same way they voted in June

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12-03-2012, 01:39 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
OMG, Fallar is just 32 flavours of stupid....
These Moody's guys just don't seem to "get it". It's a pity that the Moody's analysts haven't taken the opportunity to receive the financial wisdom available from Fallar, Clark and colleagues. Instead, they're obviously being unduly influenced by Canadian hockey zealots in frozen tundra towns and fringe right wing political groups in Arizona.

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12-03-2012, 01:48 PM
  #372
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Fallar and his merry band seem to think that Glendale would have been better off if they had been able to go forward with the Hulsizer deal, along with the $116 million bond offering to pay for the parking rights. They still hold the GWI responsible for scuttling that brilliant arrangement. Consider what the Glendale financial situation would look like now if they had managed to assume the obligation to repay the parking rights bond debt, along with the much higher arena management fees in the next several years.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:53 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
I too thought that was highly unusual, if you don't live in Glendale, own property in Glendale and can't vote in Glendale what business do you have speaking on any topic at one of their city council meetings.
Because not every Coyotes fan lives in Glendale. People were speaking were fans saying they'd be spending money in Glendale basically. They were supporting the team and indirectly supporting Glendale.

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12-03-2012, 02:00 PM
  #374
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Because not every Coyotes fan lives in Glendale. People were speaking were fans saying they'd be spending money in Glendale basically. They were supporting the team and indirectly supporting Glendale.
So in other words if I was a Coyotes fan from Carefree (or Careless) AZ who attended one or two games a year, bought a pop, hot dog and bucket of popcorn at those games had as much right to speak as a lifelong Glendale resident who owns a home and maybe a small business in Glendale and has pay'd property taxes on both to Glendale for 30 years.

Seem's to me that any elected civic official representing Glendale should represent the wishes of Glendale residents over any outside fan. To me whatever any non-resident fan of the Coyotes, Cardinals or whatever has to say regarding a specific Glendale civic issue is irrelevant.


Last edited by sipowicz: 12-03-2012 at 02:49 PM.
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12-03-2012, 02:13 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Thomas L View Post
For crying out loud George. In their last rating action Moody's explicitly stated they would downgrade if they supported the NHL franchise.

Those evil Canadian conspirators at Moody's
Aa3 and on the way to junk status.

Tomorrow, the Council of Dunces is going to deal with the next most immediate crisis: Arizona Industrial Commission works on a calendar year, not a fiscal year ending in June. Workers Comp Trust Fund and Risk Management Trust Fund must be at 55% confidence level by Dec 31, 2012.

Good News: Risk Management TF was at 90% confidence when staff stole made questionable transfers. They can skate until next FY with just a $489k adjustment.
Bad News: Workers Comp TF was not at 90% when they stole transferred from it. Departments have to come up with $1.4MM in the next 3 weeks. Good luck with that.

Approving the JIG subsidy in the face of Moody's telling them they'll be downgraded if they continue to provide irrational financial support to the team while ignoring the Industrial Commissions calendar year mandate is just another reason Glendale is so special.

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