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2014 - U.S. Roster Discussion

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Old
11-03-2012, 08:26 PM
  #551
Xokkeu
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Hi PBF,

Do you mean "scariest" American line or scariest lines relative to all teams?
I'd guess he means in terms of grit and defensive potential.

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Old
11-26-2012, 10:59 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by FrenchMontana View Post
stamkos - crosby - nash
perry - giroux - e staal
toews - tavares - bergeron
m richards - spezza - eberle

seabrook - keith
weber - doughty
idk - idk

price
fleury

would **** on that team
Didn't people say the same thing about 2010? The US beat that team once and took them to OT where they lost by one goal.

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Old
11-30-2012, 05:36 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Erik Johnson is just the partner Jack needs in order to make his offensive game explode on the international level. With his skating ability and strong defensive game he can easily lead the breakout with a rush up the ice or a solid first pass while handling the defensive load as JJ pinches up to be a 4th forward occasionally.
I don't like EJ's chances of making the 2014 team. I think he's iffy at best and a longshot at worst.

Suter, Yandle, and JJ are shoo-ins to make the Sochi roster, which leaves only 4 remaining defensman spots. EJ will have to compete for those spots against veterans who are as good or better than he is (Orpik, Byfuglien, Goligoski, Martin) and upcoming kids who are developing fast and have a chance to eclipse him by 2014 (Carlson, Fowler, Faulk, Shattenkirk, McDonaugh, Gardiner, McBain, Leddy).

EJ played 73 games last year and, while I understand he was dealing with back issues, he finished an underwhelming 17th in scoring by American defensemen. That's not good. Plus, he's turned down playing for Team USA in the Worlds two years running. We saw in 2010 with a few "tweeners" (like Pomminville and Connelly, who turned down the 2009 Worlds and were subsequently left off the preliminary 37-man roster) that Brian Burke isn't afraid to say no to bubble guys who don't play in the Worlds.

Absent a strong uptick in his play when NHL play resumes---if it ever resumes---I don't think EJ makes the Sochi roster.


Last edited by PaulieVegas: 11-30-2012 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Grammar correction
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Old
12-02-2012, 10:53 AM
  #554
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Parise(C)-Kesler-Kane
Pacioretty-Stastny-Ryan
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan(A)
JVR-Backes-Kessel
Brown-Pavelski-Oshie
Pominville-Dubinsky-Wheeler

Suter-McDonagh(A)
JJ-EJ
Orpik-Carlson
Yandle-Fowler
Byfuglien

PP:

Kane-Kesler-Callahan (he had something like 12 PP goals last season)
Parise-Byfuglien

Ryan-Stastny-Stepan
Fowler-Kessel

PK:

Kesler-Parise
Suter-McD

Backes-Callahan
Orpik-Carlson

Goaltending (in order)

Quick
Schneider
Miller
Howard

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Old
12-02-2012, 03:54 PM
  #555
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^ There's no way Brown doesn't play and Kessel is 4th line.

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Old
12-02-2012, 06:48 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Parise(C)-Kesler-Kane
Pacioretty-Stastny-Ryan
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan(A)
JVR-Backes-Kessel
Brown-Pavelski-Oshie
Pominville-Dubinsky-Wheeler

Suter-McDonagh(A)
JJ-EJ
Orpik-Carlson
Yandle-Fowler
Byfuglien

PP:

Kane-Kesler-Callahan (he had something like 12 PP goals last season)
Parise-Byfuglien

Ryan-Stastny-Stepan
Fowler-Kessel

PK:

Kesler-Parise
Suter-McD

Backes-Callahan
Orpik-Carlson

Goaltending (in order)

Quick
Schneider
Miller
Howard
Fail. Proof that we should all be happy Ranger fans aren't picking our Olympic team.

I gather from your name that you like Chris Krieder, and I agree he's a huge part of the future of American hockey. But...shouldn't we wait until he at least plays a full NHL season before placing him on the third line of the Olympic team? And ahead of guys like Brown, Pavelski, Pommenville, and Oshie? The same could be said for Derek Stepan, too. You sure the fact that both are Rangers isn't factoring into your decision?

McDounagh (another Ranger, BTW) is basically a bubble player right now, yet you not only have him on your top defensive line, but gave him an "A."

Schneider over Miller? The reigning Olympics MVP and probably the best goalie in the world (when not dealing with post-concussion syndrome) is behind a guy who's basically had one good half-season in the NHL?

Next time, leave your Ranger bias at home when you project the 2014 roster.

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:17 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
Fail. Proof that we should all be happy Ranger fans aren't picking our Olympic team.

I gather from your name that you like Chris Krieder, and I agree he's a huge part of the future of American hockey. But...shouldn't we wait until he at least plays a full NHL season before placing him on the third line of the Olympic team? And ahead of guys like Brown, Pavelski, Pommenville, and Oshie? The same could be said for Derek Stepan, too. You sure the fact that both are Rangers isn't factoring into your decision?

McDounagh (another Ranger, BTW) is basically a bubble player right now, yet you not only have him on your top defensive line, but gave him an "A."

Schneider over Miller? The reigning Olympics MVP and probably the best goalie in the world (when not dealing with post-concussion syndrome) is behind a guy who's basically had one good half-season in the NHL?

Next time, leave your Ranger bias at home when you project the 2014 roster.
You had me until this statement. There is no way that McDonagh is a bubble player. Did you watch him play last year?

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:40 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
Absent a strong uptick in his play when NHL play resumes---if it ever resumes---I don't think EJ makes the Sochi roster.
Better late than never.

EJ has actually been injured during the offseason for the past two years. So if he turned down playing to rehab I'm sure Burke understands.

Additionally, I can't see how any of Orpik, Goligoski, Martin or Byfuglien push EJ off the roster. EJ has a better defensive game than all sans Orpik, but his skating more than makes up for Orpik's advantage overall.

Looking at the possible defenders, I'd wager that the top 3 American defenders in their own end are Suter, EJ and McDonagh. Followed by Gleason, Carlson, Orpik. By 2014 Orpik projects to be out of the scratch candidates and Gleason will need some luck coming his way. Carlson would be the real wild card for his progress.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:46 PM
  #559
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You had me until this statement. There is no way that McDonagh is a bubble player. Did you watch him play last year?
I did, but there were a lot of American defensemen that were good last year. McDonagh is no lock to make this team. There's basically four spots open (assuming Suter, JJ, and Yandle are locks), McDonagh has a lot of solid competition for those spots. Wouldn't be surprised if he makes it, or disappointed. Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't make it either.

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12-03-2012, 03:50 PM
  #560
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would like to see Andy Greene get a chance for a spot for the US, or even Mark Fayne

doubtful though

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:56 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Better late than never.

EJ has actually been injured during the offseason for the past two years. So if he turned down playing to rehab I'm sure Burke understands.

Additionally, I can't see how any of Orpik, Goligoski, Martin or Byfuglien push EJ off the roster. EJ has a better defensive game than all sans Orpik, but his skating more than makes up for Orpik's advantage overall.

Looking at the possible defenders, I'd wager that the top 3 American defenders in their own end are Suter, EJ and McDonagh. Followed by Gleason, Carlson, Orpik. By 2014 Orpik projects to be out of the scratch candidates and Gleason will need some luck coming his way. Carlson would be the real wild card for his progress.
A lot of love for McDonagh on this thread. Can't say I blame you but I'm not sure I'd place him in our top 3.

I definitely thinks Buff gets a spot over EJ. Martin probably doesn't. Orpik and Goligoski could, depends on how they all play in NHL games between now and then.

The young kids are developing so rapidly, look at how Justin Faulk and Jake Gardiner took the league by storm last season. And Shattenkirk is playing really well, you can make a case he's actually been the best defenseman in that trade.

If EJ does make the team, I think a lot of that the reason will be influenced by the fact he was a #1 overall pick, and people are still star struck by that. But if on-ice play is rewarded over pre-draft pedigree, I don't think he makes it.

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:59 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
would like to see Andy Greene get a chance for a spot for the US, or even Mark Fayne

doubtful though
I think both the Greene's (Andy and Matt) will get a good luck but ultimately won't get a roster spot. They're good, but are they top-7 good?

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:03 PM
  #563
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Parise - Stastny - Kane
Ryan - Kesler - Kessel
Pacioretty - Backes - Callahan
JVR - Pavelski - Brown
Kreider

Suter - E. Johnson
McDonagh - Carlson
Orpik - Yandle
Leddy

Quick
Miller
Schneider

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:12 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
I think both the Greene's (Andy and Matt) will get a good luck but ultimately won't get a roster spot. They're good, but are they top-7 good?
Doubt either of them are even seriously considered. US depth at the blueline is probably their strongest asset. Even among "veteran" options, I'd put Suter, Orpik, Gleason, Martin, and both Johnsons ahead of them. And then there's the younger talent like Fowler, Carlson, Yandle, McDonagh, McBain, Faulk, Gardiner, Leddy, and possibly even Seth Jones (however unlikely).

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:18 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Parise - Stastny - Kane
Ryan - Kesler - Kessel
Pacioretty - Backes - Callahan
JVR - Pavelski - Brown
Kreider

Suter - E. Johnson
McDonagh - Carlson
Orpik - Yandle
Leddy

Quick
Miller
Schneider
Pretty good, kinda surprised no JJ, I think he not only makes it but could be the "C." It's possible he's not one of our top-7 but he always seems to turn it up when he puts that USA jersey on and has shown an uncanny amount of loyalty to the national team program over the years. While others look for any excuse not to play in the Worlds, he's always answered the call. I think he gets rewarded for that.

Just curious, we have a lot of good young defensemen, and Leddy is definitely one. What makes you want to pick him over the rest of the group (like Fowler, Faulk, Gardiner)?

I really hope JVR starts tearing it up in the NHL when the lockout ends, I'd love to see him reach his full potential and become the kind of player we know he can be. He was starting to show signs before the concussion issues, let's hope now that he's had a lot of time off and gets a fresh start with a new team that he really breaks out.

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:48 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
I did, but there were a lot of American defensemen that were good last year. McDonagh is no lock to make this team. There's basically four spots open (assuming Suter, JJ, and Yandle are locks), McDonagh has a lot of solid competition for those spots. Wouldn't be surprised if he makes it, or disappointed. Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't make it either.
Why is JJ a lock? You can easily make the argument that there are 7 American defensemen better than him.

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Old
12-03-2012, 06:07 PM
  #567
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Is it too late to convince Couturier to play to Team USA since he played for Canada in Juniors?

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Old
12-03-2012, 07:07 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
The young kids are developing so rapidly, look at how Justin Faulk and Jake Gardiner took the league by storm last season. And Shattenkirk is playing really well, you can make a case he's actually been the best defenseman in that trade.

If EJ does make the team, I think a lot of that the reason will be influenced by the fact he was a #1 overall pick, and people are still star struck by that. But if on-ice play is rewarded over pre-draft pedigree, I don't think he makes it.
No, you really can't make that case. So if you believe it is a credible argument I'm not sure why I'm discussing this with you. Even knowledgeable Blues fans remarked about how they could have used EJ more than Shattenkirk in the playoffs.

Shattenkirk is a great offensive dman and I think he will get a spot over Byfuglien personally, but it won't be at the expense of EJ's position. There really aren't many stud defensive guys coming up from the US program currently other than Jones (whom plays both ends well of course) and it's unlikely he's ready by 2014.

I really don't see it as anyone but Suter, EJ, McDonagh and Carlson (maybe Bogosian but I haven't watched him enough to judge his defensive game) competing for the 2-way/defensive roles. Meanwhile the glut of offensively capable guys will get the other 3-4 roles. Yandle, JJ, Shattenkirk, Byfuglien and an outside shot at Fowler competing for the offensive roles.

Locks imo, Yandle, Suter, JJ, EJ and McDonagh being all but a lock assuming he doesn't have a rough follow-up to last season.

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Old
12-03-2012, 08:04 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Parise(C)-Kesler-Kane
Pacioretty-Stastny-Ryan
Kreider-Stepan-Callahan(A)
JVR-Backes-Kessel
Brown-Pavelski-Oshie
Pominville-Dubinsky-Wheeler

Suter-McDonagh(A)
JJ-EJ
Orpik-Carlson
Yandle-Fowler
Byfuglien

PP:

Kane-Kesler-Callahan (he had something like 12 PP goals last season)
Parise-Byfuglien

Ryan-Stastny-Stepan
Fowler-Kessel

PK:

Kesler-Parise
Suter-McD

Backes-Callahan
Orpik-Carlson

Goaltending (in order)

Quick
Schneider
Miller
Howard
Parise on the point on the PP, that's incredibly funny. Parise's spot is right in front of the net, he's probably only scored like 10 goals from behind the dots. He's an along the boards, in front of the net type guy with some nifty hands to beat goaltenders. His passing and shot aren't all that special, definitely not for the point on the power play.

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12-03-2012, 08:06 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
I think both the Greene's (Andy and Matt) will get a good luck but ultimately won't get a roster spot. They're good, but are they top-7 good?
They might be able to take that veteran role. The only thing is they don't have any prior Olympic experience. Had one of them played in an Olympics, I would say it's plausible.

Greene would have to have a hell of a next two seasons to make the team, but I have to say Fayne may be a dark horse, depending on who they bring. They got their offensive guys in Carlson and Yandle, so Fayne could be a complimentary guy they bring along, but even then it's a long shot.

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12-03-2012, 08:06 PM
  #571
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You had me until this statement. There is no way that McDonagh is a bubble player. Did you watch him play last year?
His first and only full season.

Based on last year sure, but until he keeps up that play, he is a bubble player.

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12-03-2012, 08:15 PM
  #572
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This is really hard to do, especially not knowing how things end up a few years from now. I'm basically going to put the positions I think are locks:

Parise-Kesler-Kane
Ryan-Statsny-Kessel
xxxx-xxxx-Brown
xxxx-Backes-Callahan

There's numerous guys that can fill those roles: Pavelski, Pacioretty, JVR, Pominville, Oshie, I can go on and on. To be honest, defensively, Suter is really the only guy that we know is a sure bet. Other than that, there is a lot of young up and comers like McDonagh, Carlson, Yandle, and Shattenkirk, etc. and some more established guys like Orpik, E. Johnson, and Paul Martin.

I think Quick is the de facto starter with Schnieder and either Miller or Howard backing him up. It remains to be seen how good Miller is a couple years from now.

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12-03-2012, 08:51 PM
  #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
This is really hard to do, especially not knowing how things end up a few years from now. I'm basically going to put the positions I think are locks:

Parise-Kesler-Kane
Ryan-Statsny-Kessel
xxxx-xxxx-Brown
xxxx-Backes-Callahan

There's numerous guys that can fill those roles: Pavelski, Pacioretty, JVR, Pominville, Oshie, I can go on and on. To be honest, defensively, Suter is really the only guy that we know is a sure bet. Other than that, there is a lot of young up and comers like McDonagh, Carlson, Yandle, and Shattenkirk, etc. and some more established guys like Orpik, E. Johnson, and Paul Martin.

I think Quick is the de facto starter with Schnieder and either Miller or Howard backing him up. It remains to be seen how good Miller is a couple years from now.
Parise-Kesler-Kane
Ryan-Stastny-Kessel
Pacioretty-Backes-Brown
JVR-Pavelski-Callahan

Lookin pretty good.

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12-04-2012, 10:29 AM
  #574
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Pretty good, kinda surprised no JJ, I think he not only makes it but could be the "C." It's possible he's not one of our top-7 but he always seems to turn it up when he puts that USA jersey on and has shown an uncanny amount of loyalty to the national team program over the years. While others look for any excuse not to play in the Worlds, he's always answered the call. I think he gets rewarded for that.
Fair point about his dedication to the national team. Personally, I've just soured on JJ over the past couple years. I think some of the younger guys are better. I'd rather take a Carlson, Shattenkirk, or Leddy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulieVegas View Post
Just curious, we have a lot of good young defensemen, and Leddy is definitely one. What makes you want to pick him over the rest of the group (like Fowler, Faulk, Gardiner)?
Personal preference/a guess. Went back and forth between Fowler and Leddy. So many young guys, it just remains to be seen who steps up and who regresses as we get closer to the games.

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Old
12-04-2012, 01:15 PM
  #575
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
His first and only full season.

Based on last year sure, but until he keeps up that play, he is a bubble player.
His 11-12 was better than any season by anyone projected to the American blueline who isn't Ryan Suter. This is after ending the season prior as a top pairing guy for the Rangers as well.

If McDonaugh isn't on your SoChi blueline, literally every slot after #1 belongs to a "bubble player."

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