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CBA / Lockout Discussion Thread (Update: player tested, owner approved)

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Old
11-27-2012, 06:22 PM
  #251
TBLHoser
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Just how exactly did they handle the draft after the last (lost season) lockout? I can't remember - did they just follow the same draft order or did they do something different for the first lottery picks...

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11-27-2012, 06:25 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
If by ruined baseball you mean he created a complex but highly functional financial system that lets all teams compete with adequate revenue sharing and compensatory draft picks for teams who can't throw 20m at a player for every slot on the field, then sure, he truly ruined baseball.
Meaning I've never gone back.....I'll look at the standings and follow the Rays but I really don't care as much about baseball since then. My Dad was scouted by Sparky Anderson and my cousin was in the Pirates and Cards organizations so I had been a fan since I could hold a bat...not now.

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11-27-2012, 06:37 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
Just how exactly did they handle the draft after the last (lost season) lockout? I can't remember - did they just follow the same draft order or did they do something different for the first lottery picks...
http://www.dirtydangle.com/2012/07/w...tery-look.html

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11-27-2012, 06:54 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucLight View Post
Just how exactly did they handle the draft after the last (lost season) lockout? I can't remember - did they just follow the same draft order or did they do something different for the first lottery picks...
They did the ping pong ball thing.

IIRC, the Lightning had their lone ball stuck inside the machine.

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11-27-2012, 07:59 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
You know how Bettman is going to survive this lockout?

If the league decertifies, the PA is not guaranteed to win anything in court, and if they do, Bettman potentially has an escapegoat in the legal system.

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11-28-2012, 06:48 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Yes I would say creating a league that, barring miracle Cinderella type runs, is 75% farm team and 25% actual teams that have a chance to win is a ruined league. There is zero parity and the only thing the compensatory picks does is allow teams to develop more players faster for the teams that want to throw the millions at them once they are fully developed and coincidentally up for a UFA contract.
Theres plenty of pairity, just poor management.

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11-28-2012, 07:29 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Theres plenty of pairity, just poor management.
Don Fehr...is that you?

Plenty of parity in the MLB? Maybe plenty of parody. Ill give you that.

If there is one thing on this planet that the MLB does not have, its parity. How anyone can say that with a straight face is beyond me.

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11-29-2012, 07:07 AM
  #258
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Today's CBA negotiations to end at 11:04 am.

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11-29-2012, 07:10 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Today's CBA negotiations to end at 11:04 am.
More like 5:04 pm. Gotta give Don 6 hours to actually show up.

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11-29-2012, 07:12 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
More like 5:04 pm. Gotta give Don 6 hours to actually show up.
Good call.

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11-29-2012, 10:49 AM
  #261
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They're being brave so far and not walking out.

4:27 pm Pierre LeBrun is reporting that the session is over and there's no progress.



Bettman's idea of having the owners and players meet for the next session is interesting. It's a shrewd move, but the Fehrs haven't been messing these things up. I see how both sides can play this, but since the main actors in this would be new, they'd essentially be starting over and the day would go to waste. That's not functionally what will happen anyway.

What it does do is that it allows the owners to talk directly to the players, which has been a difficult thing for them all lockout long.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 11-29-2012 at 04:57 PM.
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11-29-2012, 09:25 PM
  #262
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All the Jeremy Jacobs stuff today has me cracking up.

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11-30-2012, 11:25 AM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Don Fehr...is that you?

Plenty of parity in the MLB? Maybe plenty of parody. Ill give you that.

If there is one thing on this planet that the MLB does not have, its parity. How anyone can say that with a straight face is beyond me.
i mean, yeah, in MLB other teams win the World Series besides the highest paying, but that's like a "any given sunday" + "that's why we play the game" situation rather than actual parity and fair grounds business ethics.

i agree with idealisticsniper and now i need to go wash my hands a lot.

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11-30-2012, 02:43 PM
  #264
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http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightn...owners-meeting

Some quotes from Marty, Bugsy, and Brewer on the idea of the players and owners meeting together without the league or PA leaders.

Quote:
"I would," St. Louis said after Friday's skate with teammates at the Ice Sports Forum in Brandon. "But you would have to be cautious, too. These guys (the owners) are successful because they're doing deals their whole life. We're hockey players, so we have to be careful."
Quote:
"Gary can be out of the room," St. Louis said of NHL commissioner Gary Bettman, "but the owners who have been in there are hard-liners. We tried to get some traction going, especially in our last proposition and the only thing they say is, 'That's great, thanks, keep coming.' "

"But it's something to think about," St. Louis added of a meeting between players and owners. "I'm sure we'll discuss the ins and outs of it."
Quote:
Left wing Ryan Malone picked up on St. Louis' notion of having different owners in the room such as Tampa Bay's Jeff Vinik, who is believed to be more moderate and wants a season played.

"Then I think we finally know exactly what all the owners want," Malone said. "That's the biggest thing. They keep having the same owners in there and it's the same song and dance. Jeff Vinik has done such a great job here in Tampa, I would love to hear what he has to say. You don't buy a professional sports team as a business opportunity or an investment, it's because you enjoy the game, so from that standpoint you'd love to hear what the other owners have to say."Malone said he would also like to see the players accompanied by a legal counsel.

"You would want somebody in there because you want to make sure they're telling the facts and it's justified what they're saying," he said. "But there's no harm in it. If it's a better route to take then let's do it."
Quote:
Even so, defenseman Eric Brewer said of the owners, "I don't think anybody really knows what they're thinking. Clearly we don't. I'm just as confused about the whole thing as anybody else. To pretend like players are going to go in there and negotiate with those guys and make sure it's done prudently is wrong. But maybe some guys can throw some feelings out there. Maybe that will help. Maybe they would do the same."

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12-01-2012, 04:24 AM
  #265
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12-01-2012, 08:11 PM
  #266
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http://www.tampabay.com/sports/hocke...ockout/1264255

Still some love for Vinik

Quote:
"Mr. Vinik has done so much for this community, it's two different things," captain Vinny Lecavalier said. "I know for a fact not all the owners are involved in the process, so it never came to my mind to associate him with what's going on."

Said wing Marty St. Louis: "Because of everything he's done in the past few years, I have a hard time believing Mr. Vinik doesn't want to play."
Quote:
Ultimately, though, Vinik is part of a group the league said voted unanimously for a lockout.

Even so, "I'm sure there are a lot of owners who want to play," St. Louis said. "I feel bad for Mr. Vinik. He's done a great job in this community, and right now it's all going backwards."

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12-02-2012, 04:32 PM
  #267
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Hopefully Vinik can mitigate further damage

NHLPA agrees to meeting

"The six representatives the NHL expects in the meeting will be Boston's Jeremy Jacobs, Calgary's Murray Edwards, Pittsburgh's Ron Burkle, Toronto's Larry Tannenbaum, Winnipeg's Mark Chipman and Tampa Bay's Jeffrey Vinik."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/87...ng-set-tuesday

I wonder if our GM or any players will be involved

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12-02-2012, 04:53 PM
  #268
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Wonder how all these people on the main boards are figuring Vinik for a "hawk"? Glad he's going to be in the meetings, but ultimately I don't think it's going to make any difference.

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12-02-2012, 06:30 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by albatross View Post
Wonder how all these people on the main boards are figuring Vinik for a "hawk"? Glad he's going to be in the meetings, but ultimately I don't think it's going to make any difference.
Well, the perception of the Lightning is that they play in a cardboard box.

What's interesting about Vinik going is that there really hasn't been any indication about the Lightning's position in this. It's all assumptions based on past history.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-02-2012 at 08:08 PM.
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12-02-2012, 07:57 PM
  #270
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http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightn...-meet-new-york
Quote:
"There will be owners attending this meeting who have not previously done so, which is encouraging and which we welcome," Fehr said in a statement. We hope that this meeting will be constructive and lead to a dialog that will help us find a way to reach an agreement."
Quote:
The union has not announced its representatives, though Lightning star Marty St. Louis has expressed interest in attending.

Vinik, who has not previously attended negotiations, is believed to be a moderate who won't mind the player payroll savings and increased revenue sharing a new collective bargaining agreement will bring but who also wants a season to be played. The Lightning had no immediate comment.
https://twitter.com/LightningTimes
Quote:
Lecavalier on Vinik participation: "I'm happy he's going. He's a guy who will listen, talk, have a conversation and see where things go"

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12-03-2012, 08:25 AM
  #271
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Radio personality @radiovendetta, who is followed by the likes of Brian Lawton, The net detective Jim Carey, Biz-Nasty, Rob Blake, etc. wrote about the players at the owner/player meeting

Quote:
I hear players in #NHL #NHLPA mtg will be parros, miller, toews, crosby, ott, doan. Love that line up I'd pay huge $ for Jacobs/Miller audio
https://twitter.com/RadioVendetta/st...37755549503489

They've got many of the major elements: goaltending, offense, grit, leadership, etc.

All they need is D and to be intense tomorrow. Anyone know if they'll have time to get a morning skate in?

Vendetta is also reporting that the NHL's COO John Collins is considering his options and may move on since he's not crazy about this nonsense.

If I were a person in a position to get bring him into an organization, I'd be getting ready to try that. He's the reason the NHL grew in popularity over the last few years.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-03-2012 at 04:45 PM.
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12-03-2012, 05:06 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Marty St. Louis says he will be in New York for Tues players-owners meeting but not sure he will be in room that will include Jeff Vinik.
Quote:
Either way, St. Louis not sounding optimistic meeting will make difference. "I have no hope or expectations at this point," he texted.
https://twitter.com/erlendssonTBO
Quote:
Re: Jeff Vinik, told me last month on lockout "This is a fight worth fighting for the Tampa Bay Lightning'' wonder if he still feels same?
Quote:
I just have to wonder if Vinik (and other owners) were told they would gain certain things out of a new CBA that Bettman may not deliver on

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12-03-2012, 05:18 PM
  #273
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I honestly don't care anymore. I'll come back when Bettman is gone.

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12-04-2012, 04:32 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Tokala View Post
I honestly don't care anymore. I'll come back when Bettman is gone.
Bettman is gone. He's not going to be attending the meeting.

Down Goes Brown has written a scouting report for today's game meeting.

Here's Vinik's
Quote:
Jeffrey Vinik, Tampa Bay Lightning

Strength: He also has ownership stakes in Liverpool FC and the Boston Red Sox, so even if this meeting ends in a full-scale fist fight it will still be the most successful thing he's been a part of all year.

Weakness: Every time the negotiation teams agree on an updated set of rules regarding unrestricted free agency, he sneaks over during a break and writes "(except for Stamkos)" in tiny print at the bottom.
http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2012/12...s-meeting.html


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-04-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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12-04-2012, 02:34 PM
  #275
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https://twitter.com/erlendssonTBO
Quote:
#TBLightning represented by 2 players at today's meeting - B.J. Crombeen and Marty St. Louis - and one owner Jeff Vinik

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