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Luongo: the continuing saga ...

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Old
12-03-2012, 05:35 PM
  #51
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
He can't do much of anything without the puck, and he's pitifully weak along the boards. The centre of the ice is very vulnerable when he's out there, although this is exacerbated by the fact that he's been playing against the same guys Kessel plays against and is badly overmatched doing so. Against lesser opposition he might be ok.

Getting 3rd line minutes with responsible/physical linemates he could be a decent asset for you guys. He can skate, win draws, and has some offensive skill.


I'm not questioning his offense so much as his defense and size. From what you're telling me, he doesn't have a physical component to his game. Which I agree with. However, your comment about the centre of the ice being vulnerable brings this question:


Do you suspect his defensive IQ is questionable, as in his positioning? Is that why you think centre is vulnerable? Does he read D plays properly in your mind?

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12-03-2012, 05:43 PM
  #52
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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my bad he actually did score 32 points in 2010-2011 still kessel matched that in goals and doubled that overall whats that tell you when the first line center has about half the the assists as his winger? I can keep going

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12-03-2012, 05:44 PM
  #53
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Interesting. So he's not a 2C on a good team, but is he a 3C on one? Meaning, are 3C on a good team usually have a heavy defensive component to their game, does Bozak achieve this? To the eye, is he a stalwart defensively to TO fans?


I get the offensive component. He does have some skill in this regard, but is his offense good enough to offset his lack of defensive prowess (compared to someone like Kelly or Bolland), to make him a solid 3C on a good team?
I'd say his offence would somewhat offset his defensive and physical play..with good overall forwards on his line like a Higgins or a Hansen he would be part of an effective 2-way unit.

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12-03-2012, 05:58 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
my bad he actually did score 32 points in 2010-2011 still kessel matched that in goals and doubled that overall whats that tell you when the first line center has about half the the assists as his winger? I can keep going


Please do. I want to get the full read on Bozak from TO fans. Kessel is obviously more offensively gifted. But I'm wondering if Bozak brings a defensive component to stick on that line, or are they just banking on his offensive chemistry alone.



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Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
I'd say his offence would somewhat offset his defensive and physical play..with good overall forwards on his line like a Higgins or a Hansen he would be part of an effective 2-way unit.


Fair enough. But how is his defense in particular, is what I want to know. What are some of the mistakes he makes. Does he read plays effectively, or does he struggle there? PK work? Dzone face-offs? etc...

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12-03-2012, 06:51 PM
  #55
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I'd say his offence would somewhat offset his defensive and physical play..with good overall forwards on his line like a Higgins or a Hansen he would be part of an effective 2-way unit.
I think people who are concerned with his defensive game are concerned because he isnt a Dave Bolland/2010 Manny Malhotra level defensive 3C.

I see his defensive game a Mason Raymond level, where its above average and he can do it... But in no way is he an "elite defensive player"

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12-03-2012, 07:31 PM
  #56
LEAFANFORLIFE23
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Please do. I want to get the full read on Bozak from TO fans. Kessel is obviously more offensively gifted. But I'm wondering if Bozak brings a defensive component to stick on that line, or are they just banking on his offensive chemistry alone.







Fair enough. But how is his defense in particular, is what I want to know. What are some of the mistakes he makes. Does he read plays effectively, or does he struggle there? PK work? Dzone face-offs? etc...
no he sticks on that line cause he's kessel's best friend on the team

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12-03-2012, 07:39 PM
  #57
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I think people who are concerned with his defensive game are concerned because he isnt a Dave Bolland/2010 Manny Malhotra level defensive 3C.

I see his defensive game a Mason Raymond level, where its above average and he can do it... But in no way is he an "elite defensive player"
Pretty much this. He is like the center version of Mason Raymond.

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12-03-2012, 07:43 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by frankthetank91 View Post
Pretty much this. He is like the center version of Mason Raymond.
hmm we've been told Raymond hold little to no value. Yet some fans want to make him a big piece in a Luongo deal?

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12-03-2012, 07:52 PM
  #59
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Raymond holds little to no value because tweener wingers are redundant on most rosters and he's coming off a bad season. Bozak holds more value because there are more teams in need of center depth than winger depth and he's coming off a very respectable season.

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12-03-2012, 08:12 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I think people who are concerned with his defensive game are concerned because he isnt a Dave Bolland/2010 Manny Malhotra level defensive 3C.

I see his defensive game a Mason Raymond level, where its above average and he can do it... But in no way is he an "elite defensive player"
To me this is a fair assessment. IMO, he's not "horrible" defensively as some have claimed - he's actually quite an intelligent player with flashes of brilliance but best suited for a 3rd line scoring type role.

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12-03-2012, 08:13 PM
  #61
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hmm we've been told Raymond hold little to no value. Yet some fans want to make him a big piece in a Luongo deal?
I think Mason Raymond holds little value for Toronto for the same reason that MacArthur apparently holds little value to Vancouver - because we each have the other player and decent depth in those types of positions.

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12-03-2012, 08:14 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
no he sticks on that line cause he's kessel's best friend on the team
Yeah thats the only reason Henrik centers Daniel Sedin, and Ryan Kesler doesnt.

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12-03-2012, 08:15 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
To me this is a fair assessment. IMO, he's not "horrible" defensively as some have claimed - he's actually quite an intelligent player with flashes of brilliance but best suited for a 3rd line scoring type role.
Not a player you neccessarily have to shelter... But not a player you assign defensive match ups to.

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12-03-2012, 08:22 PM
  #64
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What did McGuire exactly say? I would hope Burke wouldn't throw Kadri away like that.

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12-03-2012, 08:23 PM
  #65
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If I'm Vancouver I'm gunning for more of a Kulemin+Colborne return, they seem to fit the system more than Bozak and Kadri do. I really hope we can somehow convince Burke to do that. Do any Leafs fans have any opinions for Kulemin+Colborne for Lu?

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12-03-2012, 08:25 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
I think Mason Raymond holds little value for Toronto for the same reason that MacArthur apparently holds little value to Vancouver - because we each have the other player and decent depth in those types of positions.
Its not just Toronto its league round. I don't buy the rewording of StringerBell, Bozak is as much of a tweener as Raymond & just because he plays center I don't think that adds more value. Raymond has played center in the NHL, does his value go up now? Also that "bad season" was him coming back due to a serious back injury with no chance at summer training. Sure Bozak had 27 more points while playing 18 more games but he was also getting 1st line time with Kessel & Lupul. Did he get 1st unit PP time as well?



Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
What did McGuire exactly say? I would hope Burke wouldn't throw Kadri away like that.
So far we haven't found what McGuire allegedly said.

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12-03-2012, 08:28 PM
  #67
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If I'm Vancouver I'm gunning for more of a Kulemin+Colborne return, they seem to fit the system more than Bozak and Kadri do. I really hope we can somehow convince Burke to do that. Do any Leafs fans have any opinions for Kulemin+Colborne for Lu?
That is not a bad return at all.

Both Kulemin and Colborne may need a jump start in a different environment.

It also opens up a spot on the 2nd / 3rd line for a Frattin/Kadri

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12-03-2012, 08:30 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Its not just Toronto its league round. I don't buy the rewording of StringerBell, Bozak is as much of a tweener as Raymond & just because he plays center I don't think that adds more value. Raymond has played center in the NHL, does his value go up now? Also that "bad season" was him coming back due to a serious back injury with no chance at summer training. Sure Bozak had 27 more points while playing 18 more games but he was also getting 1st line time with Kessel & Lupul. Did he get 1st unit PP time as well?




So far we haven't found what McGuire allegedly said. The rest ...
Sorry, I'm entitled to my opinion. Kadri is my favourite prospect, and I'm not a fan of Luongo at all.

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12-03-2012, 08:31 PM
  #69
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Just jumping in here...

If the Leafs can get Luongo for any 3 of the 4 mentioned here - Leafs win. (nevermind 2 of them)

Bozak, Kulemin, Kadri, Colbourne... really, if I'm a leaf fan - any of these guys are fair game. Leafs need Lu more than any or all of the above.

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12-03-2012, 08:39 PM
  #70
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Just jumping in here...

If the Leafs can get Luongo for any 3 of the 4 mentioned here - Leafs win. (nevermind 2 of them)

Bozak, Kulemin, Kadri, Colbourne... really, if I'm a leaf fan - any of these guys are fair game. Leafs need Lu more than any or all of the above.
I will second this. If and thats a big if there is any truth to the latest "rumour", it would be a steal for TO.

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12-03-2012, 08:39 PM
  #71
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When is Bjugstad coming to the Canucks? That's all I want.

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12-03-2012, 08:42 PM
  #72
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Toronto needs someone 8 years younger then luongo because they won't be contending for 3 to 4 years from now

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12-03-2012, 08:44 PM
  #73
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Toronto needs someone 8 years younger then luongo because they won't be contending for 3 to 4 years from now
Luongo is exactly what Toronto needs. A player that loves playing in a hockey-crazed market. A guy that makes exciting saves and will bring the fans to their seats. He will get the Leafs into the playoffs. That is a miracle in itself.

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12-03-2012, 08:57 PM
  #74
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No schneider is what Toronto needs especially for the package you wan't

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12-03-2012, 08:58 PM
  #75
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After hearing Bozak's evaluation from T.O. fans I am actually shocked that he would be a centerpiece to a Luo trade. Admittedly, i knew little about him other than " i thought" he was a top 6 center with some decent offensive upside, but now with the consensus being he's probably no better than a #3C with average defensive abilities really concerns me. If this is actually the case why wouldnt VAN just stick with giving Schroeder a shot at the 3C position, i know he is working hard at his two-way game in Chicago and has been improving steadily. Although, Schroeder hasn't proven himself at the top level, as opposed to Bozak, but if this trade does in fact go through as speculated does it effectively say that VAN doesn't have faith in him going forward? It also seems to me that this wouldn't be a "win now" transaction but more of a future project, which also doesn't make sense not give Schroeder a shot first. I think i'm just of the opinion that if im acquiring a 3C i rather him be a shutdown guy, than a project with defensive liabilities that "may or may not" be a future Top 6 center. I may be way off base but this really changes my opinion of the value in these recent trade proposals.

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