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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

The Blues in hindsight.

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Old
05-16-2006, 07:25 AM
  #1
Roger's Pancreas*
 
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The Blues in hindsight.

I just now realized that the St. Louis Blues had at one time or another Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens, and Chris Pronger. If Stevens would have stayed in St. Louis, would the Blues top three defenseman be the most dominant group in history?

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05-16-2006, 09:13 AM
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arrbez
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well, they would have been up there with the Canadiens "Big Three" of the 70's.

Although I'm not sure any of them were as good as Robinson was.

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05-16-2006, 09:34 AM
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reckoning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth
I just now realized that the St. Louis Blues had at one time or another Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens, and Chris Pronger. If Stevens would have stayed in St. Louis, would the Blues top three defenseman be the most dominant group in history?
Yeah, they could`ve been. Then again if they still had Stevens then they may not have felt the need to go out and acquire Pronger.

Another question is how New Jersey`s fortunes may have changed if they were awarded fair compensation instead of the league giving them Stevens in an effort to punish St. Louis.

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05-16-2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth
I just now realized that the St. Louis Blues had at one time or another Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens, and Chris Pronger. If Stevens would have stayed in St. Louis, would the Blues top three defenseman be the most dominant group in history?
If the league didn't have that stupid compensation rule and the Blues were allowed to keep Stevens after the Shanahan trade, there's no telling what would have happened. Personally, I think they would have been poised to win a Cup.

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05-16-2006, 11:18 AM
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The Devils asked for Stevens, the Blues offered Joseph (who hadn't cracked the NHL full-time yet) and Brind'Amour who was still *very* early in his career, no more than 2 seasons played). I think the arbitrator later commented that had the Blues offered a little more, he wouldn't have awarded Stevens.

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05-16-2006, 02:08 PM
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David Puddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
Yeah, they could`ve been. Then again if they still had Stevens then they may not have felt the need to go out and acquire Pronger.

Another question is how New Jersey`s fortunes may have changed if they were awarded fair compensation instead of the league giving them Stevens in an effort to punish St. Louis.
Scott Stevens isn't fair compensation for Brendan Shanahan?

Lou Lamoriello asked for Scott Stevens when St. Louis signed Shanahan from the Devils as a free-agent. In addition to Rod Brind'Amour and Curtis Joseph, some draft picks were also offered.

Interestingly, it was Shanahan who was sent to Hartford for Chris Pronger, and the Devils got a nice settlement when St. Louis tampered with Stevens when he was still under contract with the Devils. The Blues helped the Devils get Zach Parise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyp
If the league didn't have that stupid compensation rule and the Blues were allowed to keep Stevens after the Shanahan trade, there's no telling what would have happened. Personally, I think they would have been poised to win a Cup.
Yeah, except Shanahan was 21 years old at the time. If they had the rules of the previous CBA or this CBA, the Blues wouldn't have been able to sign the then young winger.


Last edited by David Puddy: 05-16-2006 at 02:13 PM.
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Old
05-16-2006, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez
well, they would have been up there with the Canadiens "Big Three" of the 70's.

Although I'm not sure any of them were as good as Robinson was.
True, but I think that they were all better than Guy Lapointe.

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05-16-2006, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyp
If the league didn't have that stupid compensation rule and the Blues were allowed to keep Stevens after the Shanahan trade, there's no telling what would have happened. Personally, I think they would have been poised to win a Cup.
And we're still waiting

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05-16-2006, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Puddy
Scott Stevens isn't fair compensation for Brendan Shanahan?
In hindsight? Yes. In 1992? Not even close. The arbitrator later admitted it himself, but said that he didn't think the Blues' offer was fair and so he was left with no other choice but to give the Devils Shanahan. I think it was said that had the Blues offered Jeff Brown, the Devils would have gotten Brown but I'd have to track down notes that I have buried in the closet to confirm this; I do recall that a Blues player not named Hull, Oates or Stevens was specifically mentioned in the "if they has offered him, I would have awarded him" comment

The tampering thing ... I'm not pissed at the Devils for reporting it like most Blues fans are (actually, they got help from someone with the Blues on it) - I'm pissed at Jack Quinn and Ron Caron for doing it.

Edward J. Houston - the arbitrator who made the infamous ruling.

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05-16-2006, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesfan1981
True, but I think that they were all better than Guy Lapointe.
I dont think the Lapointe you saw with the Blues was the 70's Lapointe who played on Team Canada. He was arguably the best headmanner of the puck in the league and the 3rd best dman after Orr and Park. Crushing hitter and fearless shotblocker. Great skater.

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05-17-2006, 07:21 PM
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I think you guys are missing the fact that Pronger and Stevens couldn't have been on the same team together.

Pronger came to St. Louis in a trade for Shanahan straight up, and Shanahan was acquired through free agency, which awarded Scott Stevens to New Jersey as compensation.

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05-20-2006, 05:54 AM
  #12
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this was covered already--I think

Stevens to NJD for Shanahan and then Shanahen was taded for Pronger

so the blues could not have had all three at once

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05-22-2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark
this was covered already--I think

Stevens to NJD for Shanahan and then Shanahen was taded for Pronger

so the blues could not have had all three at once
It was mentioned above that the arbitrator had a choice of awarding compensation. It was possible for the Blues to hold onto Stevens and sign Shanahan but something would have had to give (goaltending most likely).

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05-22-2006, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
In hindsight? Yes. In 1992? Not even close. The arbitrator later admitted it himself, but said that he didn't think the Blues' offer was fair and so he was left with no other choice but to give the Devils Shanahan. I think it was said that had the Blues offered Jeff Brown, the Devils would have gotten Brown but I'd have to track down notes that I have buried in the closet to confirm this; I do recall that a Blues player not named Hull, Oates or Stevens was specifically mentioned in the "if they has offered him, I would have awarded him" comment

The tampering thing ... I'm not pissed at the Devils for reporting it like most Blues fans are (actually, they got help from someone with the Blues on it) - I'm pissed at Jack Quinn and Ron Caron for doing it.

Edward J. Houston - the arbitrator who made the infamous ruling.
The Devils made out on the whole compensation thing. They also landed Randy McKay from the Wings when they signed Troy Crowder. What a horrible signing for Detroit.

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Old
05-22-2006, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning
Yeah, they could`ve been. Then again if they still had Stevens then they may not have felt the need to go out and acquire Pronger.

Another question is how New Jersey`s fortunes may have changed if they were awarded fair compensation instead of the league giving them Stevens in an effort to punish St. Louis.
Totally agree~

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Old
05-22-2006, 04:26 PM
  #16
Stephen
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How about this question:

Would the Blues have won a cup if they had kept Scott Stevens and had gone into the playoffs with a Stevens/MacInnis pair as opposed to a Pronger/MacInnis pair in the late 90s or in the early 2000s?

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Old
05-23-2006, 08:33 AM
  #17
12# Peter Bondra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen
How about this question:

Would the Blues have won a cup if they had kept Scott Stevens and had gone into the playoffs with a Stevens/MacInnis pair as opposed to a Pronger/MacInnis pair in the late 90s or in the early 2000s?
I dont think the problem was in Pronger, rather in the G duo's they had.

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Old
05-23-2006, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra
I dont think the problem was in Pronger, rather in the G duo's they had.
Definitley the problem. One series Turek would look like the reincarnate of Grant Fuhr.. the next he couldnt' stop a beach ball.

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05-23-2006, 01:20 PM
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12# Peter Bondra
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Originally Posted by Ovechkin8
Definitley the problem. One series Turek would look like the reincarnate of Grant Fuhr.. the next he couldnt' stop a beach ball.
Or Fred Brathwaite. Or Curtis Joseph. Or Chris Osgood.

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Old
05-28-2006, 01:05 AM
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It's definitely the goaltending. Not Pronger. The Blues were never going to win a Cup when they went into the playoffs with a too-young Cujo, too-old Fuhr or shaky Turek when the opposition has guys like Mike Vernon, Ed Belfour and Patrick Roy.

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