Elias was top ten in points last season? I didn't even know that lol
but I'm gonna have to say Salvador, I thought he was our best Dman last season and our best player in the playoffs. I think if most people on here made a list ranking the top 30 shutdown dmen they wouldn't have Salvador on there
He was ranked 16th on the "best defensemen defensively" poll and 20th on the "HF top 50 defensemen" poll, ahead of guys like Kronwall and Hamhuis.
Comparing Johnson to teammate Jan Hejda, who takes all of the tough defensive assignments and outscored him considerably at even strength, the statement is clear that Johnson's placement on those lists is not correct.
Is Hejda a top-20 defenseman? Or former teammate Kyle Quincey, who was considered the Avs' no.1 ahead of Johnson until he was traded for Steve Downie?
Johnson is overrated, not underrated. If you want more proof, look at the fact that a majority of people on this board think he's worth Gustav Nyquist, Brendan Smith, AND a 3rd rounder.
That's really not true. Those were the only three that played at an elite level all of last season. When they're not injured or in critical playoff performances, Miller and Luongo are definitely both elite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223
There's 3 elite, Lundqvist, Quick, and Rinne.
See, you can definitely make the case for all 5 of them, but Rinne makes a lot more mistakes than I'd like out of an "elite goalie", Quick hasn't done it that long, and Miller and Luongo can choke from time to time. That only leaves Lundqvist as TRULY elite imo. Either way, Lehtonen has no business being called "Elite" when he's not even top 5 in the league
He was ranked 16th on the "best defensemen defensively" poll and 20th on the "HF top 50 defensemen" poll, ahead of guys like Kronwall and Hamhuis.
Comparing Johnson to teammate Jan Hejda, who takes all of the tough defensive assignments and outscored him considerably at even strength, the statement is clear that Johnson's placement on those lists is not correct.
Is Hejda a top-20 defenseman? Or former teammate Kyle Quincey, who was considered the Avs' no.1 ahead of Johnson until he was traded for Steve Downie?
Johnson is overrated, not underrated. If you want more proof, look at the fact that a majority of people on this board think he's worth Gustav Nyquist, Brendan Smith, AND a 3rd rounder.
There's no way I would ever trade EJ for those guys unless I was about to go into full out rebuild. People wayyyy overrated prospects and picks on HF versus already established players.
There's no way I would ever trade EJ for those guys unless I was about to go into full out rebuild. People wayyyy overrated prospects and picks on HF versus already established players.
It's not a matter of whether you'd trade him, it's a matter of value. He simply isn't worth that. You know it, I know it.
He was ranked 16th on the "best defensemen defensively" poll and 20th on the "HF top 50 defensemen" poll, ahead of guys like Kronwall and Hamhuis.
Comparing Johnson to teammate Jan Hejda, who takes all of the tough defensive assignments and outscored him considerably at even strength, the statement is clear that Johnson's placement on those lists is not correct.
Is Hejda a top-20 defenseman? Or former teammate Kyle Quincey, who was considered the Avs' no.1 ahead of Johnson until he was traded for Steve Downie?
Johnson is overrated, not underrated. If you want more proof, look at the fact that a majority of people on this board think he's worth Gustav Nyquist, Brendan Smith, AND a 3rd rounder.
bolded basically shows you have no idea what you're talking about
Jim Slater. Very good 4th line centre. Perhaps Andrew Ladd as well - great shot, and good on the tip drill, in addition to not shying away from the rough stuff.
Played more than Johnson in all situations. Hejda and O'Byrne played more on the PK. Quincey played the most at ES, on PP, and overall.
Quincey was the #1 defenseman. Like it or dislike it, it was a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero
It's not a matter of whether you'd trade him, it's a matter of value. He simply isn't worth that. You know it, I know it.
Look, please don't talk about players like you know them better then the actual fan of that team. And yes, it is whether you'd trade him or not, value and whether you'd trade a player go hand in hand. You should know better.
Played more than Johnson in all situations. Hejda and O'Byrne played more on the PK. Quincey played the most at ES, on PP, and overall.
Quincey was the #1 defenseman. Like it or dislike it, it was a fact.
minutes mean nothing in Sacco's system considering he plays everybody basically equally
Hejda and O'Byrne were the main defensive pairing, and the PK guys, EJ is more of a two way player, the go to guy in key situations (he and O'Brien were usually 2nd unit PK on Sacco started relying on Hejda and O'Byrne for the pk), and Quincey was just...there, and was pretty much nothing special...anybody who watched the avs last year would have a better argument for O'Brien as a #1 defender than Quincey
Crap, Quincey was a healthy scratch for a few games in December (he was quite vocal whining about it), I'm sure every team benches their '#1 defender'
I must have a different definition of what an underrated player is because I don't believe for one second that Kane, Kessel, Keith, Burrows, Heatly, Eriksson, Sharp, Phaneuf, Hall, Letang, Subban, Stastny, etc, etc, etc.
All of those players have been praised by the media and the fans.
Matt Moulson used to be the most underrated player in the league, but people have noticed now, he is not as underrated as he was.
Dennis Seidenberg would have been a great choice in 2010, but people know who he is and what he does now. I am a Bruins fan and I don't mind admitting that Seidenberg has been getting some recognition since the Bruins won the Stanley Cup.
The real underrated guy on the Bruins is Chris Kelly and I was one of the ones to underrate him up until last year. Chris Kelly has quietly put up the kind of stats we are seeing 2nd line centers put up while playing on the 3rd line and playing on the PK yet I am not sure that anyone besides fans in Boston and Ottawa even know who he is.
The real underrated guy on the Bruins is Chris Kelly and I was one of the ones to underrate him up until last year. Chris Kelly has quietly put up the kind of stats we are seeing 2nd line centers put up while playing on the 3rd line and playing on the PK yet I am not sure that anyone besides fans in Boston and Ottawa even know who he is.
Droves of Sens fans told Bruins fans this when they didn't understand the trade. Some probably even said it would take time for you to warm up to his consistent and quiet but effective play on a nightly basis. Regularly the highest e/s point scorer on the Sens and always said to be one of the dressing room favourites.
He's one of those mistake free players that won't hurt you in any situation.
Mike Green. Wait until there's an NHL season and he doesn't get benched for joining the rush and scoring a goal, by that donkey of a coach Dale Hunter.
Look, please don't talk about players like you know them better then the actual fan of that team. And yes, it is whether you'd trade him or not, value and whether you'd trade a player go hand in hand. You should know better.
So you're saying Johnson is worth more than Nyquist+Smith+3rd. I'm saying he is worth considerably less than that.
Obviously our viewpoints are skewed based on our teams' points of view (Johnson is important to the Avs, while Nyquist and Smith are important to the Wings) but I think it's far more likely that the Avs say yes to that trade than the Wings do. My reasoning? Any advantage Johnson has over Smith is more than negated by the inclusion of Nyquist+3rd. Smith is arguably better offensively at this point already, and is a year younger. Johnson has the experience and probably the better defensive game, but that's not enough to warrant Nyquist+3rd. Removing Nyquist entirely, leaving the trade as Johnson for Smith+3rd, that might be fair value.
Which is why people saying that Johnson is worth more than that package makes him overrated.
Matt Read. It's understandable because of the Flyer's depth, but this guy is one of the most versatile forwards in the NHL. He can play every forward position, kills penalties, plays on the power play, and is a one of the better defensive forwards on the team. He honestly reminds me a lot of Patrick Sharp. He may never hit those numbers, but they have a similar skill set.
