18 pages of fighting and the compromise between both sides is so readily available.
Can't both sides just agree that Burke's judgment will be approaching when the CBA is agreed to. He will have enormous cap space, a year of development from prospects and soon to be NHL players, a deep draft to pick from, and a great free agent pool.
If he screws it up and the team still misses the playoffs, then how can you defend him? If he does well, fits together a solid roster and makes the playoffs, then how can you criticize him?
Either all will be forgotten, or all will be remembered. This is based on what exactly he does after this new CBA.
Let it be...for now.
I agree... if things fall into place they might be able to get Luongo and attract a top tier UFA.
FORWARDS
Joffrey Lupul ($5.500m) / Unrestriced FA / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.500m) / Clarke MacArthur ($3.250m)
Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Jay McClement ($1.500m) / Matt Frattin ($0.925m) Unrestriced FA / David Steckel ($1.100m) / Mike Brown ($0.737m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Carl Gunnarsson ($3.000m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m) / Jake Gardiner ($1.117m)
Mike Komisarek ($4.500m) / Cody Franson (1.95m)
Holzner ($.575m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.300m)
James Reimer ($1.800m)
yes, warped logic. you're all over the place because you've backed yourself into a corner with this foolish argument of yours.
on one hand, you say burke is not responsible for the on-ice results. on the other hand, you're arguing vehemently that burke's resume points to him being the best man for the job. so, what's on his resume? he has won a stanley cup as a gm, but using your logic, he can't accept any responsibility for that because he wasn't coaching or playing.
seems to me you believe he's responsible for the good results, but not responsible for the bad results. that's not how things work on this planet.
If you think the Stanley Cup is the only thing on Burke's resume then you need to do some research.
If you think the Stanley Cup is the only thing on Burke's resume then you need to do some research.
Winning the Cup is his ultimate achievement in hockey.
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Woodlief
using his big frame to create space and his skating ability to find open lanes to drive the net. He stands 6-3 and is a natural goal scorer with plenty of confidence.
He's a scout's dream in the way he prepares himself and plays an unselfish game, making smart decisions with the puck. With his bloodlines, he certainly understands what it will take to make it at the next level.
If you think the Stanley Cup is the only thing on Burke's resume then you need to do some research.
avoiding the points that show your argument to be illogical.
what do you give him credit for? you've said he cannot take any responsibility for any on-ice success his teams have had, so what does he get credit for? what are the positives on his resume?
avoiding the points that show your argument to be illogical.
what do you give him credit for? you've said he cannot take any responsibility for any on-ice success his teams have had, so what does he get credit for? what are the positives on his resume?
The list of trades he has pulled off is a long one you sure you have the comprehension to keep up? We lost you a few times last night.
He also has experience.
I'm trying to go slow for you. Feel free to google him.
Winning the Cup is his ultimate achievement in hockey.
Ok so now your saying he has achieved a cup which implies your saying he gets the credit for the roster yet the leafs have finished bottom of the barrel or closed to it every year he has been GM yet its ultimtely the players fault and Burke bears little to no responsibility? Sorry but you cannot have it both ways either he is responsible for the roster and deserves credit for success and criticism for the failures OR its ultimately the players who deserve credit and faliure but not the GM, make up your mind and pick a side here.
Edit: Sorry Ulf I didnt mean to reply to your quote I was trying to respond to charlielemieux, sorry for my error.
If you think the Stanley Cup is the only thing on Burke's resume then you need to do some research
Ok so now your saying he has achieved a cup which implies your saying he gets the credit for the roster yet the leafs have finished bottom of the barrel or closed to it every year he has been GM yet its ultimtely the players fault and Burke bears little to no responsibility? Sorry but you cannot have it both ways either he is responsible for the roster and deserves credit for success and criticism for the failures OR its ultimately the players who deserve credit and faliure but not the GM, make up your mind and pick a side here.
The list of trades he has pulled off is a long one you sure you have the comprehension to keep up? We lost you a few times last night.
He also has experience.
I'm trying to go slow for you. Feel free to google him.
Your post is ridiculous. Who cares about his trades if the end result is junk. Do you even know what the purpose of a hockey trade is (as opposed to a salary trade).....to improve your hockey team. As simple as that. That hasn't happened with Burke and the Leafs. The roster has been completely gutted and rebuilt through mostly trades and free agent signings.So what?
If you think the Stanley Cup is the only thing on Burke's resume then you need to do some research
Ok so now your saying he has achieved a cup which implies your saying he gets the credit for the roster yet the leafs have finished bottom of the barrel or closed to it every year he has been GM yet its ultimtely the players fault and Burke bears little to no responsibility? Sorry but you cannot have it both ways either he is responsible for the roster and deserves credit for success and criticism for the failures OR its ultimately the players who deserve credit and faliure but not the GM, make up your mind and pick a side here.
Dude you're having a harder time following along than Frankie. Have a good night.
Your post is ridiculous. Who cares about his trades if the end result is junk. Do you even know what the purpose of a hockey trade is (as opposed to a salary trade).....to improve your hockey team. As simple as that. That hasn't happened with Burke and the Leafs. The roster has been completely gutted and rebuilt through mostly trades and free agent signings.So what?
Try to follow along. We're talking about Burke's resume. Not his just his 4 years in Toronto.
It's like we need a ticker going across the bottom to keep everyone up to speed.
anyone can make trades. if he's not responsible for the on-ice post-trade results, how do you judge whether or not they're good trades?
LMAO really? Not everyone can make trades. Big trades are hard to do.
Twisting my words again. I would think you were a lawyer or politician if you didn't get lost so much.
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its plain to see. you want to give him credit for the positives, but no blame for the negatives. sadly, life doesn't work that way.
Here we go Again. Jesus. did you not read where I said about 10 times the Kessel deal ultimately turned out bad for Burke? And you wonder why I question whether you can follow along?
You and others just can't grasp that at the time of the trade Burke only traded picks. He didn't trade Seguin, Hamliton and Knight. He couldn't. He didn't have them in his franchise.
You guys can't seperate the two.
Ya I support Burke, but I don't agree with everything he does. I don't blindly hate him either like some around here do.
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and we could do without the childish personal shots, but obviously they're an indication you know you're wrong, and have nowhere else to turn.
Well keep up then. Sheesh it's not like we're talking rocket science here. It just isn't black and white like you want it to be.
LMAO really? Not everyone can make trades. Big trades are hard to do.
Twisting my words again. I would think you were a lawyer or politician if you didn't get lost so much.
Here we go Again. Jesus. did you not read where I said about 10 times the Kessel deal ultimately turned out bad for Burke? And you wonder why I question whether you can follow along?
You and others just can't grasp that at the time of the trade Burke only traded picks. He didn't trade Seguin, Hamliton and Knight. He couldn't. He didn't have them in his franchise.
You guys can't seperate the two.
Ya I support Burke, but I don't agree with everything he does. I don't blindly hate him either like some around here do.
Well keep up then. Sheesh it's not like we're talking rocket science here. It just isn't black and white like you want it to be.
You ask people to follow along.....my question is can you follow your own thought process?
I have been here since this started and I have no idea of your take on Burke's responsibility for the teams results. You seems to separate the good and the bad and credit Burke for the good and blame others for the bad. Then on to a 10 year time line and now his resume. All without much in the way of committing to a defend-able position, other then Burke is the best GM in the league or at the very least better then Holland.
You ask people to follow along.....my question is can you follow your own thought process?
I have been here since this started and I have no idea of your take on Burke's responsibility for the teams results. You seems to separate the good and the bad and credit Burke for the good and blame others for the bad. Then on to a 10 year time line and now his resume. All without much in the way of committing to a defend-able position, other then Burke is the best GM in the league or at the very least better then Holland.
Your comprehension is not my problem.
Why do I need to commit to defensable position? Is the world only black and white? Right and Wrong?
I have no problem stating where I stand on any issue involving Burke.
I have no problem stating where I stand on any issue involving Burke
Thats fine that you support Burke, no issues there. The issue I have is you having beef with people for choosing not to support him as GM, people have just as much right to dislike the man as much as you have the right to support him.
Thats fine that you support Burke, no issues there. The issue I have is you having beef with people for choosing not to support him as GM, people have just as much right to dislike the man as much as you have the right to support him.
Do you also have an issue with those who hate Burke and have a beef with anyone who supports him?
Why do I need to commit to defensable position? Is the world only black and white? Right and Wrong?
I have no problem stating where I stand on any issue involving Burke.
Look at what you wrote:
Why do I need to commit to a defensible position.......then your next thought is I have no problem stating where I stand on any issue involving Burke.
This is what I'm talking about......you stated I do not need to take a position then stated I can defend my position......take a position and defend it then!
Why do I need to commit to a defensible position.......then your next thought is I have no problem stating where I stand on any issue involving Burke.
This is what I'm talking about......you stated I do not need to take a position then stated I can defend my position......take a position and defend it then!
What position?
Support Burke? I do, but I don't do it blindly.
And I don't hate him blindly.
Why do you feel it necessary to have me pigeonholed?
You guys refuse to look atthe bigger picture and just love taking one little thing, blowing out of proportion and then saying that that is what I believe. You guys have been so wrong and so off base so many times in this thread it is a joke.
If you can't see the world is not Black and white then that is your problem. I refuse to be pigeonholed into something just because you can't wrap your head around an argument that has been made.
Support Burke? I do, but I don't do it blindly.
And I don't hate him blindly.
Why do you feel it necessary to have me pigeonholed?
You guys refuse to look atthe bigger picture and just love taking one little thing, blowing out of proportion and then saying that that is what I believe. You guys have been so wrong and so off base so many times in this thread it is a joke.
If you can't see the world is not Black and white then that is your problem. I refuse to be pigeonholed into something just because you can't wrap your head around an argument that has been made.
I feel that you do support Burke blindly even if you refuse to admit it.....
You think that Burke is not responsible for the on ice product and their performance.....He is. That is his job, to sign, draft and trade for players to play, this makes him responsible for their performances.
Yet you want to give him credit for the good trades and the bad ones are the players fault.....that is blind support.
I see all the good trades/signings that he has made as well as the bad ones.
My biggest beef with him is his big mouth and holier then thou attitude. He stated that he was going to do certain things within a set time frame and he has failed to do so....he claims that his focus has not change since his hiring.....that is pure BS. He went about to prove just how smart he thought he was and made many poor decisions. Then when it did not work out he changes his mind set....
Again it is very hard to follow what you post, look
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Support Burke? I do, but I don't do it blindly.
And I don't hate him blindly.
Ok I get that you support Burke and you do not feel you do so blindly ( I disagree) Then you state you do not hate him blindly?
I feel that you do support Burke blindly even if you refuse to admit it.....
Then you have not been reading what I say.
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You think that Burke is not responsible for the on ice product and their performance.....He is. That is his job, to sign, draft and trade for players to play, this makes him responsible for their performances.
Here you go. Twisting things. I said tons of times he has some responsibility. Just not very much. His job is to acquire the best players and coaches he can. After that teh coaches have to coach and the players have to play.
What is so hard about that to understand?
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Yet you want to give him credit for the good trades and the bad ones are the players fault.....that is blind support.
Again, you are twisting what I say. Damn near fabricating things out of mid air.
For the 50th time, the Kessel trade turned out bad. He lost the deal.
BUt you guys want to paint it like he traded Kessel for Seguin, and that is false. He didn't trade Knight, Hamilton and Seguin. He traded picks.
Again, I don't see how this is hard to unsderstand?
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I see all the good trades/signings that he has made as well as the bad ones.
Don't know if I've ever seen yo post a kind word about Burke on these boards.
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My biggest beef with him is his big mouth and holier then thou attitude. He stated that he was going to do certain things within a set time frame and he has failed to do so....he claims that his focus has not change since his hiring.....that is pure BS. He went about to prove just how smart he thought he was and made many poor decisions. Then when it did not work out he changes his mind set....
So a leader that can adapt and change with the times is a bad thing?
I hated his 6 adn 6 philosophy. He has since come around.
So he beaks off to the media? So what? You going to say you never written a cheque with your mouth that you couldn't cash?
Not liking a guy attitude is no reason to fire him and hire someone less competent.
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Again it is very hard to follow what you post, look
Ok I get that you support Burke and you do not feel you do so blindly ( I disagree) Then you state you do not hate him blindly?
You lost me with that....
Did I really need to put "I don't hate him blindly either LIKE OTHERS DO AROUND HERE."?
AS the saying goes... "There are those who can extrapolate from incomplete data..."
Here you go. Twisting things. I said tons of times he has some responsibility. Just not very much. His job is to acquire the best players and coaches he can. After that teh coaches have to coach and the players have to play.
What is so hard about that to understand?
Again, you are twisting what I say. Damn near fabricating things out of mid air.
For the 50th time, the Kessel trade turned out bad. He lost the deal.
BUt you guys want to paint it like he traded Kessel for Seguin, and that is false. He didn't trade Knight, Hamilton and Seguin. He traded picks.
Again, I don't see how this is hard to unsderstand?
Don't know if I've ever seen yo post a kind word about Burke on these boards.
So a leader that can adapt and change with the times is a bad thing?
I hated his 6 adn 6 philosophy. He has since come around.
So he beaks off to the media? So what? You going to say you never written a cheque with your mouth that you couldn't cash?
Not liking a guy attitude is no reason to fire him and hire someone less competent.
Did I really need to put "I don't hate him blindly either LIKE OTHERS DO AROUND HERE."?
AS the saying goes... "There are those who can extrapolate from incomplete data..."
I'm only going to address the one part of this post as I know what you have written about the rest.
If you support Burke, why would you hate him at all?
You were referring to your self and not others in that statement. A supporter of anything does not hate the thing/person they support.
