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Old
12-02-2012, 10:52 PM
  #51
The Zetterberg Era
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
Yes, Edler or Hamhuis are not that far off from them in terms of value. Especially Zetterberg.
That is completely wrong, but whatever, I suggest you actually watch Zetterberg and look up his stats. Let alone the fact he is the next captain and a lifetime Wing. Quincey for Sedin was a bit harsh. But Zetterberg has significantly more value than either of those two players sorry.

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Old
12-02-2012, 11:00 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
Yes, Edler or Hamhuis are not that far off from them in terms of value. Especially Zetterberg.
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Wrong. As I have said, Zetterberg IS untouchable. Unless your throwing out a franchise corner stone in return(Weber for example) and/or a massive over-payment, Z is going nowhere. He has had health issues, but his leadership(he IS the next Captain for Detroit btw), as well as being the clear MVP for the team when practically everyone went down with injury. Talent-wise sure, but there is nothing realistic that anyone can/will offer for Z.

Edler(assuming he is signed)+ will net you Datsyuk + White/Quincey. Datsyuk is probably the better player overall than Zetterberg, but it is uncertain if he intends to stay in NA after his contract is up. You have to give to get. A top six with the Sedins, Datsyuk and Kesler would be freakin' amazing.


Last edited by Wolverine Wings: 12-02-2012 at 11:02 PM. Reason: need to mention this...
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Old
12-02-2012, 11:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
Edler(assuming he is signed)+ will net you Datsyuk + White/Quincey.
Hell yes.

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Old
12-02-2012, 11:27 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Hell yes.
Let's hear the plus. Kesler is right out, but there are some other pieces you'd be more then welcome too.

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Old
12-02-2012, 11:31 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by 2MGoBlue2 View Post
:

Wrong. As I have said, Zetterberg IS untouchable. Unless your throwing out a franchise corner stone in return(Weber for example) and/or a massive over-payment, Z is going nowhere. He has had health issues, but his leadership(he IS the next Captain for Detroit btw), as well as being the clear MVP for the team when practically everyone went down with injury. Talent-wise sure, but there is nothing realistic that anyone can/will offer for Z.

Edler(assuming he is signed)+ will net you Datsyuk + White/Quincey. Datsyuk is probably the better player overall than Zetterberg, but it is uncertain if he intends to stay in NA after his contract is up. You have to give to get. A top six with the Sedins, Datsyuk and Kesler would be freakin' amazing.
I am more open to shipping Datsyuk than most because like you I believe this contract is it for him in North America. At most we are looking at 3 and 1/2 years but his family never came over and it is just too uncertain to assume he is staying. With that said we can still probably do better, although Datsyuk does have a NTC which will impact things. If they are to trade Datsyuk they will want better +'s than what Vancouver will probably be able to give on top of the nice young player. Guess it depends on what they could swing in for Luongo.

Most in Detroit will get upset about the mere thought of doing it, I don't think they can afford not to. If Datsyuk hasn't signed an extension before the season next year or wants to wait, I think they have to swallow hard and move him.

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Old
12-02-2012, 11:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Let's hear the plus. Kesler is right out, but there are some other pieces you'd be more then welcome too.
Everyone will get upset when we start to do this, Detroit fans go crazy whenever this idea is floated and half don't want to see it is really 50/50 (probably worse in terms of him staying in NA) that he walks and goes back to Russia in 2014. The reason Kesler is out is you're basically buying one year of Datsyuk. If Detroit cannot get him to stay than he isn't likely to stay in North America. While that hurts the value he still can command Edler +. Right now there isn't a whole lot in your farm system that is an attractive plus. I really think it would require something from the Luongo package that is yet unknown.

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Old
12-02-2012, 11:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Everyone will get upset when we start to do this, Detroit fans go crazy whenever this idea is floated and half don't want to see it is really 50/50 (probably worse in terms of him staying in NA) that he walks and goes back to Russia in 2014. The reason Kesler is out is you're basically buying one year of Datsyuk. If Detroit cannot get him to stay than he isn't likely to stay in North America. While that hurts the value he still can command Edler +. Right now there isn't a whole lot in your farm system that is an attractive plus. I really think it would require something from the Luongo package that is yet unknown.
Edler+ is fine, but I've listed a younger player on a similar trajectory to Datsyuk, signed for several more years at a sweet heart cap hit as not going the other way, I don't think that's terrible to say or do. I don't think the NA argument is a legitimate reason to discount Datsyuk's value, but Edler (presumed to be resigned, or at the least pre-negotiated by Holland) and Kesler for Datsyuk and White/Quincey doesn't do it for me. If Zetterberg can be absolutely untouchable, I think saying Kesler, in this precise instance (and certainly not on the whole) being out of the question is justified.

Edler+Kassian or Edler+Booth+1st for that package would be closer in my eyes. Hell, if you want Schneider to be flipped (I hear there is a little demand somewhere out there), Edler+Schneider for Datsyuk+(as in less then White) as a win now trade for us would suit me just fine.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:26 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
Let's hear the plus. Kesler is right out, but there are some other pieces you'd be more then welcome too.
Datsyuk is one of the players you shorten the "untouchable" list down.

Whether it's Edler + any prospect or Edler + multiple picks I would do it.

No team can come even close to Datsyuk - Sedin - Kesler down the middle with Scheider/Luongo backstopping it.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:32 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by kthsn View Post
Datsyuk is one of the players you shorten the "untouchable" list down.

Whether it's Edler + any prospect or Edler + multiple picks I would do it.

No team can come even close to Datsyuk - Sedin - Kesler down the middle with Scheider/Luongo backstopping it.
My only "untouchable", and in this case strictly with the proposed base of "Edler+ for Datsyuk" already in place, consists of one name. Datsyuk is what, a top 5 forward in the league? I'm not even saying Kesler is untouchable, but Edler+Kesler for Datsyuk is an overpayment for the Canucks, and we are better off keeping Kesler and trying to resign Edler rather then give both up. I never even used the word "untouchable". Kesler for Datsyuk? Sure, Kesler+ for Datsyuk? Probably. Edler+Kesler, and with an agreement to resign in place or as a sign and trade no less, I can't condone though.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:42 AM
  #60
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Surprised the love Zetterberg is getting on here, considering the "what have you done for me lately" mentality this place is notorious for. His stats last year were relatively bad and he had a terrible playoffs, I remember watching him cough up the puck in his own zone for a short handed goal.

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Old
12-03-2012, 01:49 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Surprised the love Zetterberg is getting on here, considering the "what have you done for me lately" mentality this place is notorious for. His stats last year were relatively bad and he had a terrible playoffs, I remember watching him cough up the puck in his own zone for a short handed goal.
He had a horrible first month and half outside of that he was one of the best forwards in the league. His october was especially bad. The entire Wings team played pretty bad in the playoffs, really Zetterberg was one of the better guys unfortunately. His history in the playoffs is also a big reason people aren't all that worried. He is also the future captain and really was the first line center most of last year especially from about December on his line was the best line.

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Old
12-03-2012, 10:05 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
He had a horrible first month and half outside of that he was one of the best forwards in the league. His october was especially bad. The entire Wings team played pretty bad in the playoffs, really Zetterberg was one of the better guys unfortunately. His history in the playoffs is also a big reason people aren't all that worried. He is also the future captain and really was the first line center most of last year especially from about December on his line was the best line.
I can see keeping Zetterberg around as a leader in the room now that Lidstrom's gone, do you think there's any reasonable chance Datsyuk is moved to help re-tool the franchise in such a deep draft year? I'm not saying for Edler or in any relation to this proposal, more just in general for futures.

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:22 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I can see keeping Zetterberg around as a leader in the room now that Lidstrom's gone, do you think there's any reasonable chance Datsyuk is moved to help re-tool the franchise in such a deep draft year? I'm not saying for Edler or in any relation to this proposal, more just in general for futures.
Unless there's a season and we suck and we ask Dats if he agrees to go somewhere else and he says yes, then yes, in that case it's possible.

Otherwise no.

No one is going to trade MacKinnon or Jones for one year of Datsyuk.

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:30 PM
  #64
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No thank you. Edler even if unsigned is much more valuable than that package, the only way Edler is moved is in a package for Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:47 PM
  #65
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It's tricky because Detroits untouchables are because they are elite players (much like you couldn't pry the Sedins from Van).

Edler would be an awesome piece for Detroit to acquire...

But Detroit really doesn't have many expendable pieces with huge value.
As good as Helm is, a deal really can't be centered around him.

Maybe if it was Kronwall + Helm for Edler... But that really doesn't solve any problems for Detroit

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Old
12-03-2012, 04:55 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Unless there's a season and we suck and we ask Dats if he agrees to go somewhere else and he says yes, then yes, in that case it's possible.

Otherwise no.

No one is going to trade MacKinnon or Jones for one year of Datsyuk.

Even if they did have a partial season I would expect them to spend most of the summer trying to convince him to stay. How his contract works is he now has a partial NTC, so while moving him like that might be mean he doesn't fully control that. I know the Wings haven't operated like that but we will have to see how this team functions and looks. This is a business if they aren't good enough to win it all than I think this is a tough choice that has to be made. I still think he is going to be pretty expensive even as a one year rental and not sure the Canucks really have the goods to make it happen. Edler+ is a nice offer if he is under contract but a season has to happen there or the Wings get a wide open run at him in free agency and like I said above I am not all that into the pluses. Edler, Booth, and the 1st is realistic but I never been a big Booth fan wonder what the Wings opinion on him is. We know some of their targets, Booth has never been a big one.

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Old
12-03-2012, 06:10 PM
  #67
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I really doubt Pavs gets traded because we'd have to be pretty bad next year AND he'd have to approve of it. Pavs is my favorite player ever. I can't even imagine him on the Nucks and, if it happened, the Nucks would be a temporary favorite team. Even thinking about it scares me

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12-03-2012, 10:59 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Surprised the love Zetterberg is getting on here, considering the "what have you done for me lately" mentality this place is notorious for. His stats last year were relatively bad and he had a terrible playoffs, I remember watching him cough up the puck in his own zone for a short handed goal.
lol what? Did you watch any of Z last year? He was the 2nd highest scoring player in the entire league in the 2nd half of the season after a somewhat slow start by his standards, while remaining just as good defensively as ever. Even with his slow start he was still top 25 in league scoring, playing on the 2nd line for detroit.

He was terrible in the playoffs? He was by FAR the Wings best player. Do you just make things up hoping that no one will call you out on how completely wrong you are?

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Old
12-03-2012, 11:20 PM
  #69
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I really doubt Pavs gets traded because we'd have to be pretty bad next year AND he'd have to approve of it. Pavs is my favorite player ever. I can't even imagine him on the Nucks and, if it happened, the Nucks would be a temporary favorite team. Even thinking about it scares me
Pavel's NTC is partial, so he really only has so much control. I didn't say it was something I hope happens, but it is possible.

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Old
12-03-2012, 11:37 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
It's tricky because Detroits untouchables are because they are elite players (much like you couldn't pry the Sedins from Van).

Edler would be an awesome piece for Detroit to acquire...

But Detroit really doesn't have many expendable pieces with huge value.
As good as Helm is, a deal really can't be centered around him.

Maybe if it was Kronwall + Helm for Edler... But that really doesn't solve any problems for Detroit
So you want us to give you a defender just as good as Edler (older, mind you) AND Helm... For a guy who will be UFA in a year?


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Old
12-03-2012, 11:47 PM
  #71
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So you want us to give you a defender just as good as Edler (older, mind you) AND Helm... For a guy who will be UFA in a year?

Alternatively, we can give them Datsyuk.

Because a year of Edler is apparently worth that.

Edler+Kesler+1st would be the minimum for Datsyuk. The idea that Kesler's untouchable, so Datsyuk should be acquirable for something like Edler+Kassian, that's bunk. Good first-pairing defenseman with defensive issues vs. elite two-way center. One of these teams needs to add. A lot.

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Old
12-03-2012, 11:48 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Alternatively, we can give them Datsyuk.

Because a year of Edler is apparently worth that.

Edler+Kesler+1st would be the minimum for Datsyuk. The idea that Kesler's untouchable, so Datsyuk should be acquirable for something like Edler+Kassian, that's bunk. Good first-pairing defenseman with defensive issues vs. elite two-way center. One of these teams needs to add. A lot.
If that's what you're looking for, Datsyuk will not be traded.

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Old
12-03-2012, 11:52 PM
  #73
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If that's what you're looking for, Datsyuk will not be traded.
Not that they're shopping the guy, but seconded.

Helm and Filppula? If contract talks go poorly, let's go back to that.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:23 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
So you want us to give you a defender just as good as Edler (older, mind you) AND Helm... For a guy who will be UFA in a year?

Kronwall is good... But I think most would agree Edler is better (and again younger).

And like I said, the trade doesnt make sense. Detroit has few expendable assets that hold good value.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:34 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Alternatively, we can give them Datsyuk.

Because a year of Edler is apparently worth that.

Edler+Kesler+1st would be the minimum for Datsyuk. The idea that Kesler's untouchable, so Datsyuk should be acquirable for something like Edler+Kassian, that's bunk. Good first-pairing defenseman with defensive issues vs. elite two-way center. One of these teams needs to add. A lot.
Canucks lose thier best d-man and thier 3rd best forward plus a first round pick for a 34 year old with one year left on his deal, Datsyuk might be the best player in this deal ,but hes not an Edler better than Kesler, the canucks aint doing that. Defense gets worse and we still have holes (2nd line RW,3rd line C).

Hell Im not even trading Kesler for a year and half of Datsyuk.

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