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Luongo: the continuing saga ...

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12-03-2012, 09:04 PM
  #76
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
After hearing Bozak's evaluation from T.O. fans I am actually shocked that he would be a centerpiece to a Luo trade. Admittedly, i knew little about him other than " i thought" he was a top 6 center with some decent offensive upside, but now with the consensus being he's probably no better than a #3C with average defensive abilities really concerns me. If this is actually the case why wouldnt VAN just stick with giving Schroeder a shot at the 3C position, i know he is working hard at his two-way game in Chicago and has been improving steadily. Although, Schroeder hasn't proven himself at the top level, as opposed to Bozak, but if this trade does in fact go through as speculated does it effectively say that VAN doesn't have faith in him going forward? It also seems to me that this wouldn't be a "win now" transaction but more of a future project, which also doesn't make sense not give Schroeder a shot first. I think i'm just of the opinion that if im acquiring a 3C i rather him be a shutdown guy, than a project with defensive liabilities that "may or may not" be a future Top 6 center. I may be way off base but this really changes my opinion of the value in these recent trade proposals.
I agree. I really don't understand why Bozak is part of these rumours. If we're not getting an ideal third line centre(i.e. awesome defensively with physical play and some offensive upside) we may as well try out Schroeder in the 3C spot. Toronto should keep Bozak, because he does work on their 1st line, and if we should target a player that better suits our needs like Kulemin instead.(or Lupul)

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12-03-2012, 09:41 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I agree. I really don't understand why Bozak is part of these rumours. If we're not getting an ideal third line centre(i.e. awesome defensively with physical play and some offensive upside) we may as well try out Schroeder in the 3C spot. Toronto should keep Bozak, because he does work on their 1st line, and if we should target a player that better suits our needs like Kulemin instead.(or Lupul)
In any trade proposal now i have defintetly been swayed to the inclusion of Kulemin / Lupul arguement. Although i believe its not very logical of T.O. to trade Lupul , its that type of value that i would prefer. That being said, the more that this saga goes on the more i realize how horrible a trading partner T.O. is. I would hope that MG would hold on to Luo until he recieves a more adequate return from them or anyone else.

FYI if any one feels the need to respond by saying that if we keep him he will be a distraction or we will not be able to manage are capspace in a unknown future,please save it for someone else, thanks. IMO i believe these "supposed concerns" to be non factors and are only used by "Anti-Canucks fans" to try and lessen his value.


Last edited by DanCloutiers5hole: 12-03-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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12-03-2012, 10:14 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by gvkmedia View Post
Just jumping in here...

If the Leafs can get Luongo for any 3 of the 4 mentioned here - Leafs win. (nevermind 2 of them)

Bozak, Kulemin, Kadri, Colbourne... really, if I'm a leaf fan - any of these guys are fair game. Leafs need Lu more than any or all of the above.
I'd do Luongo and Raymond for Kulemin, Bozak and Kadri. No interest in Colborne though, I wouldn't be surprised if he never amounts to anything.

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Old
12-03-2012, 10:21 PM
  #79
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Yeah Nucks should either watch Colborne right now or get a better view from Leafs fans, he is under performing hard.

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12-03-2012, 10:23 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
After hearing Bozak's evaluation from T.O. fans I am actually shocked that he would be a centerpiece to a Luo trade. Admittedly, i knew little about him other than " i thought" he was a top 6 center with some decent offensive upside, but now with the consensus being he's probably no better than a #3C with average defensive abilities really concerns me. If this is actually the case why wouldnt VAN just stick with giving Schroeder a shot at the 3C position, i know he is working hard at his two-way game in Chicago and has been improving steadily. Although, Schroeder hasn't proven himself at the top level, as opposed to Bozak, but if this trade does in fact go through as speculated does it effectively say that VAN doesn't have faith in him going forward? It also seems to me that this wouldn't be a "win now" transaction but more of a future project, which also doesn't make sense not give Schroeder a shot first. I think i'm just of the opinion that if im acquiring a 3C i rather him be a shutdown guy, than a project with defensive liabilities that "may or may not" be a future Top 6 center. I may be way off base but this really changes my opinion of the value in these recent trade proposals.
It would be a win now transaction if you're comparing Bozak with Schroeder. Some Leaf fans are extra harsh on him for being a big weak link on the top line, but it all depends on how Gillis sees Bozak. Besides, if the rumour is true, the centrepiece would be Kadri and not Bozak IMO.

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12-03-2012, 10:26 PM
  #81
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I will miss Bozak if this deal is true. Hes average defensively at best (however really good at faceoffs) and hes a borderline3rd/2nd liner. His true strength with the Leafs and the reason I'd like to keep him around is that he can keep up and play with Kessel, which not many Cs have been able to do.

I'll miss Kadri to. It will suck to have spent so much time developing him only to see him break out. Hes on the verge right now. Hes going to be an NHLer before long.

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12-03-2012, 10:32 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I'd do Luongo and Raymond for Kulemin, Bozak and Kadri. No interest in Colborne though, I wouldn't be surprised if he never amounts to anything.
I couldn't agree more about Colborne. I have never understood why some VAN fans feel compelled to include him in every trade proposal. I could be wrong but from what i have seen and heard he has done nothing to prove that he'll be a serviceable NHL'er. I think far too many people read into Gillis' suggestion that he wants to make the team bigger and get disillusioned by Colborne's size.

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12-03-2012, 10:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DanCloutiers5hole View Post
I couldn't agree more about Colborne. I have never understood why some VAN fans feel compelled to include him in every trade proposal. I could be wrong but from what i have seen and heard he has done nothing to prove that he'll be a serviceable NHL'er. I think far too many people read into Gillis' suggestion that he wants to make the team bigger and get disillusioned by Colborne's size.
To be fair, Joe was developing nicely last year when he had a serious injury. Dude almost lost a finger.

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12-03-2012, 10:44 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
It would be a win now transaction if you're comparing Bozak with Schroeder. Some Leaf fans are extra harsh on him for being a big weak link on the top line, but it all depends on how Gillis sees Bozak. Besides, if the rumour is true, the centrepiece would be Kadri and not Bozak IMO.
My interpretation of the win now comment was entirely based on the comments i read from other T.O. fans, i don't have enough knowledge of him yet to personally make that assumption on my own so i will take your word on it.... I completey agree with you though that it does very well depend on what Gillis sees more than what any of us do, and to be honest that kinda concerns me cause he's a very hard person to read.

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12-03-2012, 10:55 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
To be fair, Joe was developing nicely last year when he had a serious injury. Dude almost lost a finger.
I can only call it like i see it , and yes i was aware of his injury. My intentions were never to knock him down, so sorry if it seemed as much. My intent was more focused on how some people evaluate him solely on physical attributes as opposed to his actual performance.

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12-04-2012, 05:09 AM
  #86
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Yeah Nucks should either watch Colborne right now or get a better view from Leafs fans, he is under performing hard.
My honest assesment....he won't make it. Tons of size...no desire to use it.

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12-04-2012, 05:33 AM
  #87
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1040 am

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Did anyone ever find the link to the Pierre McGuire thing? I want to know how the Bozak + Kadri thing came up in conversation. Was it like "Bozak + Kadri done deal" kind of thing, or "I'd expect players like Kadri or Bozak to be of interest", or what?
It was on a Vancouver radio station with Darren Millard.

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12-04-2012, 05:37 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I will miss Bozak if this deal is true. Hes average defensively at best (however really good at faceoffs) and hes a borderline3rd/2nd liner. His true strength with the Leafs and the reason I'd like to keep him around is that he can keep up and play with Kessel, which not many Cs have been able to do.

I'll miss Kadri to. It will suck to have spent so much time developing him only to see him break out. Hes on the verge right now. Hes going to be an NHLer before long.
Finally a number one goalis and we only lose Bozak from the roster. Done deal although I will miss Bozak as our #3C for years to come.

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12-04-2012, 05:52 AM
  #89
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If Bozak+Kadri is really the return...wow

If that happens, GMs don't view Luongo's contract very good and it seems not many team were interested.. Vancouver doesn't achieve much in that deal, Kadri is a good prospect for their prospect pool though and Bozak can play 3C behind Sedin and Kesler but this trade won't improve Vancouver. Maybe the best they get from this offer is the capspace, so they could maybe acquire 2nd line RW from other trade, maybe using their picks or something to bring in a proven good top6 winger, salary won't be a problem after Luongo has cleared some space.

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12-04-2012, 05:57 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
I will miss Bozak if this deal is true. Hes average defensively at best (however really good at faceoffs) and hes a borderline3rd/2nd liner. His true strength with the Leafs and the reason I'd like to keep him around is that he can keep up and play with Kessel, which not many Cs have been able to do.

I'll miss Kadri to. It will suck to have spent so much time developing him only to see him break out. Hes on the verge right now. Hes going to be an NHLer before long.
he wouldn't have any room to breakout behind the sedins, kesler, booth,burrows, where would the ice time come from?

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12-04-2012, 05:58 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
It was on a Vancouver radio station with Darren Millard.
how long ago did he say it?

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12-04-2012, 06:03 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by BigMacJokinen View Post
If Bozak+Kadri is really the return...wow

If that happens, GMs don't view Luongo's contract very good and it seems not many team were interested.. Vancouver doesn't achieve much in that deal, Kadri is a good prospect for their prospect pool though and Bozak can play 3C behind Sedin and Kesler but this trade won't improve Vancouver. Maybe the best they get from this offer is the capspace, so they could maybe acquire 2nd line RW from other trade, maybe using their picks or something to bring in a proven good top6 winger, salary won't be a problem after Luongo has cleared some space.
if that is the return this place will explode it will be bigger then the we got phaneuf and giguere

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12-04-2012, 07:03 AM
  #93
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he wouldn't have any room to breakout behind the sedins, kesler, booth,burrows, where would the ice time come from?
Booth's got talent, but his offensive creativity leaves a lot to be desired. Especially since he plays a lot alongside Kesler. Kadri's upside offensively is probably behind only the Twins, if you look at the players individually.

He won't be there this year, or probably even next. But if he does get his all around game to an acceptable level he can be a hell of a player, given the right supporting cast.

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12-04-2012, 07:08 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BigMacJokinen View Post
If Bozak+Kadri is really the return...wow

If that happens, GMs don't view Luongo's contract very good and it seems not many team were interested.. Vancouver doesn't achieve much in that deal, Kadri is a good prospect for their prospect pool though and Bozak can play 3C behind Sedin and Kesler but this trade won't improve Vancouver. Maybe the best they get from this offer is the capspace, so they could maybe acquire 2nd line RW from other trade, maybe using their picks or something to bring in a proven good top6 winger, salary won't be a problem after Luongo has cleared some space.
Any deal that involves Luongo (or any player with a big contract) is going to have significant value placed on cap space. The 2013-2014 cap is going to be nowhere near $70m, which means there's going to be a lot of players without contracts and very little money to be spent.

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12-04-2012, 08:27 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MapleReef View Post
It was on a Vancouver radio station with Darren Millard.
This is where the rumor breaks down for me, Millard does not host a Vancouver sports radio show, and Hockey Central is not on either the team 1040, or 1410, as both are Bell/TSN broadcasters.

I think the entire thing was started from a SamJAM post, that Millard commented on, I don't know if Millard added anything, but I would read less and less into this. here is the tweet.

He's playing catch up“@samjam99: According to @darenmillard as well as Pierre McGuire on TEAM 1040, it will be Kadri and Bozak for Luongo…” Millard never says anything about the pieces involved.

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12-04-2012, 08:36 AM
  #96
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This is where the rumor breaks down for me, Millard does not host a Vancouver sports radio show, and Hockey Central is not on either the team 1040, or 1410, as both are Bell/TSN broadcasters.

I think the entire thing was started from a SamJAM post, that Millard commented on, I don't know if Millard added anything, but I would read less and less into this. here is the tweet.

He's playing catch up“@samjam99: According to @darenmillard as well as Pierre McGuire on TEAM 1040, it will be Kadri and Bozak for Luongo…” Millard never says anything about the pieces involved.
not true Daren Millard
I have heard bozak and kadri and I think luongo is a leaf post lockout thats my he posted in response to a fan nov 29

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12-04-2012, 08:37 AM
  #97
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I think people who are concerned with his defensive game are concerned because he isnt a Dave Bolland/2010 Manny Malhotra level defensive 3C.

I see his defensive game a Mason Raymond level, where its above average and he can do it... But in no way is he an "elite defensive player"
This is an accurate assessment. The reason some Leafs fans trash Bozak is because he's been playing out of position for 2 years. He should not be anywhere near the #1 center position on a good team, and he's not likely offensive enough to hold down a 2nd line spot for any extended period of time. What he is, is a solid two-way forward, who is capable of contributing on a sheltered scoring line and winning more than his fair share of draws.

If there is one particular reason why this deal doesn't ring true to me, it probably starts with the fact that neither Bozak or Kadri are signed beyond this lockout year.

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12-04-2012, 08:39 AM
  #98
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Its a bogus rumour. Burke and Gillis arent exactly best friends. Gillis wont be commiting to anything if he's pottentially getting another offseason to figure out what he really wants to do. Secondly its tampering to negotiate during a lockout.

Just a bunch of bored people with nothing to talk about.

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12-04-2012, 09:12 AM
  #99
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With the expected cost of Luongo being Bozak + 2nd, I could live with Bozak + Kadri.
Canucks probably add a 3rd, something like that.

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12-04-2012, 09:17 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
Its a bogus rumour. Burke and Gillis arent exactly best friends. Gillis wont be commiting to anything if he's pottentially getting another offseason to figure out what he really wants to do. Secondly its tampering to negotiate during a lockout.

Just a bunch of bored people with nothing to talk about.
GM's can talk...they just can't confirm a deal. I also think the GM's know/believe the lockout will end soon.

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