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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Owner-Player meeting only, no Bettman or Fehr (UPD: 12/4 in NYC)

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Old
12-03-2012, 07:25 PM
  #501
CerebralGenesis
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I'd say that Miller isn't driving the boat. Jacobs most assuredly has been at the helm throughout.
Hell, I'd say that Crosby and Toews are more at the front of the line than Miller.

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12-03-2012, 07:32 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
It wouldn't shock me if it's because the mediators said things the owners didn't like in the short time they were together. This lockout is about nothing but players being out for blood and owners wanting more control, it isn't a neccessity economically. It's the same reason Dolan's not in the room, they know he's a loose cannon and is likely to side with the PA.
Why not invite Hamrlik or Alzner to the room for the PA then? Because players demanding that their share never decrease from year to year or guaranteed raises not benefit them? I'll agree that this is petty as hell though.

I still don't buy that the owners would forgo all of their massive profits for an increase that wouldn't cover the losses to get there. Since they make so much money by cooking the books right?

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12-03-2012, 07:39 PM
  #503
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Heard this on the Bobcat this afternoon...

What the players/nhl need to do in order to get fans is some sort of prevision in the next CBA if there is work stoppage after next CBA expires that ticket prices have an automatic 25-33% rollback.

Thought is both parties get burned essentially and will look for ways to avoid work stoppages, versus using that as the first "go to option" as it currently is.

It will never happen, but it's interesting thought.

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12-03-2012, 08:05 PM
  #504
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I think Mark Chipman will make a huge difference at this meeting. He's one of the few owners that loves hockey more then the money

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12-03-2012, 08:18 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Heard this on the Bobcat this afternoon...

What the players/nhl need to do in order to get fans is some sort of prevision in the next CBA if there is work stoppage after next CBA expires that ticket prices have an automatic 25-33% rollback.

Thought is both parties get burned essentially and will look for ways to avoid work stoppages, versus using that as the first "go to option" as it currently is.

It will never happen, but it's interesting thought.
It would be much better to have automatic binding arbitration if a deal is not in place. That way the revenue wouldn't be killed but you would avoid work stoppage.

Someone like Fehr would love the ticket rollback idea. He would just say no no no and make the owners cave when the deadline comes.

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12-03-2012, 08:22 PM
  #506
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I think Mark Chipman will make a huge difference at this meeting. He's one of the few owners that loves hockey more then the money
That's half the reason we get into these problems.

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12-03-2012, 08:23 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Howie View Post
Heard this on the Bobcat this afternoon...

What the players/nhl need to do in order to get fans is some sort of prevision in the next CBA if there is work stoppage after next CBA expires that ticket prices have an automatic 25-33% rollback.

Thought is both parties get burned essentially and will look for ways to avoid work stoppages, versus using that as the first "go to option" as it currently is.

It will never happen, but it's interesting thought.
They won't need a provision for fans to not show up at the rate they are going. Don't worry about that.

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12-03-2012, 08:30 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
They won't need a provision for fans to not show up at the rate they are going. Don't worry about that.
Indeed, my interest is waning...

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12-03-2012, 08:48 PM
  #509
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I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or confrontational, but I believe this question, or something similar, will be asked. That's how the players feel and who better to ask it?
It's possible a question like that may be asked... but that still doesn't make it any more of a legitimate question that's not based on emotions.

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Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
Then the owners will respond by saying that for the first year, we aren't asking you to take a paycut or rollback but rather defer part of that years salary until the following year with the rest of deferred to two years later. That is where the 211 million make whole part comes in as after that revenues should grow enough that the salaries can be normalized to 50%.

That 211 million is equal to exactly the same amount as the 7% difference in HRR for the first year or two.
Year 1 of the NHLs plan is ~54.5%, while year 2 is 51.7% (year 2 is with 5% growth). See my signature for a excel sheet with the effects the 2 offers have on the cap and the split.

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12-03-2012, 09:27 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
It's possible a question like that may be asked... but that still doesn't make it any more of a legitimate question that's not based on emotions.



Year 1 of the NHLs plan is ~54.5%, while year 2 is 51.7% (year 2 is with 5% growth). See my signature for a excel sheet with the effects the 2 offers have on the cap and the split.
Assuming the math is good, nice work. I never noticed the PA's cap separation under their proposal. That can't be good, as a percentage, considering the escalating floor is one of the causes of the problem.

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12-03-2012, 09:49 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic or confrontational, but I believe this question, or something similar, will be asked. That's how the players feel and who better to ask it?
Dude, your question is essentially "why are we being asked to have reduced salaries at all." Not how much, or what's fair, or how does that jive with some numbers or other. And then you're backing up why that's a pertinent and relevant question by noting how 87 is an important number to Sidney Crosby because it's his super special birthday. Therefore, why should we have any reduction in salary. If that's the tone of these negotiations, good night.

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12-03-2012, 10:00 PM
  #512
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http://www.ocregister.com/sports/own...eague-nhl.html

NYT Klein's article looks at the six owners participating in the talks

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12-03-2012, 10:30 PM
  #513
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Reading stories that a whole lot of players are heading to NYC for NHLPA (internal) meeting, but no specific players have been confirmed to attend meeting.

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12-03-2012, 11:17 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Assuming the math is good, nice work. I never noticed the PA's cap separation under their proposal. That can't be good, as a percentage, considering the escalating floor is one of the causes of the problem.
Thanks. I'm fairly confident on the math. At least on the first set of offers and the latest ones. The median one I recognize that there's a flaw in the sense that I can't predict growth, and that it's whole principal is that it would be different on a year to year basis.

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12-03-2012, 11:20 PM
  #515
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Jeremy Jacobs .....lol

Shut it down boys.

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12-04-2012, 01:26 AM
  #516
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What the players cannot admit is that they are mainly dumb or concussed. I said it!

What they could have done is ambushed the owners with smart players like Wellwood or some of the Ivy leaguers. Then the owners present would have to defend thier position in rational terms, something that hasn't been tried, yet.

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12-04-2012, 03:29 AM
  #517
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What the players cannot admit is that they are mainly dumb or concussed. I said it!
How many of the players sent haven't suffered a brain injury or 3?

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12-04-2012, 09:03 AM
  #518
LadyStanley
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drosennhl 6:42am via Twitter for iPhone Today's owners-players meeting is scheduled for 2 pm in NYC. Sidney Crosby confirmed to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that he will be there.




SunGarrioch 6:43am via Web
Jeff Vinik has been in the league two years. Mark Chipman has been in the league one year. Both are in the room today. Why? #NHL




Buccigross 6:13am via Twitter for iPhone
“@JGSportsTalk: @Buccigross do you think an agreement is reached today?”---No. At this point we're still weeks away. A lot CAN be gained



THNRyanKennedy 6:06am via Web
Who ya got for players at the negotiating table today? I say Crosby, Toews, Backes, Westgarth, Montador and Ryan Miller. #imisstheofficepool

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12-04-2012, 09:09 AM
  #519
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
SunGarrioch 6:43am via Web
Jeff Vinik has been in the league two years. Mark Chipman has been in the league one year. Both are in the room today. Why? #NHL
The cynic in my says they're there to make them feel like they belong. The presence of Jacobs makes me fear he'll be the only one talking, and that Vinik and Chipman have already been warned to stay on point and be seen, not heard. If I'm wrong, they're the owners that'll point out that an ever-escalating salary floor is what's making their continued existence risky and would like to see what the players would like in exchange for reduced salaries.

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12-04-2012, 09:19 AM
  #520
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The cynic in my says they're there to make them feel like they belong. The presence of Jacobs makes me fear he'll be the only one talking, and that Vinik and Chipman have already been warned to stay on point and be seen, not heard. If I'm wrong, they're the owners that'll point out that an ever-escalating salary floor is what's making their continued existence risky and would like to see what the players would like in exchange for reduced salaries.
I've taken that into consideration as well and regardless of how things turn out, I hope that this won't be the case.

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12-04-2012, 09:24 AM
  #521
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6:43am via Web
Jeff Vinik has been in the league two years. Mark Chipman has been in the league one year. Both are in the room today. Why? #NHL
Well, there is a slight chance that because Mark Chipman's silent partner happens to be the richest Canadian on the planet, might have something to do with being invited.

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12-04-2012, 09:26 AM
  #522
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Originally Posted by BnGBear1970 View Post
The cynic in my says they're there to make them feel like they belong. The presence of Jacobs makes me fear he'll be the only one talking, and that Vinik and Chipman have already been warned to stay on point and be seen, not heard. If I'm wrong, they're the owners that'll point out that an ever-escalating salary floor is what's making their continued existence risky and would like to see what the players would like in exchange for reduced salaries.
I doubt anything can be done to keep them quiet once the meeting starts if they have something they really want to say. If Jacobs tries to hush them the players would tell him to let them talk or they walk because the meeting isn't being used for it's intended purpose if some of the owners present are silenced.

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12-04-2012, 09:47 AM
  #523
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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...t_the_message/

Grange previews today's meeting

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12-04-2012, 09:48 AM
  #524
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Well, there is a slight chance that because Mark Chipman's silent partner happens to be the richest Canadian on the planet, might have something to do with being invited.
he's the richest owner in the league, so maybe that. or maybe the two new guys because they would have an insight into the business end of things that other longer term owners wouldn't have. as in, what makes a hockey team viable as something to purchase? what determines the value of a hockey team to investors?

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12-04-2012, 09:56 AM
  #525
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or maybe the two new guys because they would have an insight into the business end of things that other longer term owners wouldn't have. as in, what makes a hockey team viable as something to purchase? what determines the value of a hockey team to investors?
Interesting thought. They may also be able to sit there, and directly ask the players what they have done to earn the kind of venom that the players direct at them? These guys weren't around for the last CBA. They didn't cut their salaries 24%. They're brand-new at this and trying to make their businesses work and genuinely don't understand why the players are being so militant toward them. This is a business negotiation, not a union-busting salary-burning exercise like the players are trying to portray it.

That might provoke a nice awkward silence from the players. Somebody has got to be able to break through this cone of owner-hatred the players have surrounded themselves with. Chipman's probably as good a bet as anyone. If he can't do it, if the players can't let go of this hate, there'll be no deal anyway and the league is probably headed for Armageddon.

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