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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Mirtle: NHLPA’s hard-liners hint at decertification after latest offer rejected

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11-28-2012, 11:40 AM
  #576
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Originally Posted by leeaf83 View Post
THIS ^

and to the person who responded to you, where is it saying that teams have to fold? Look at the positive impact last year from turning 1 bottom tier financial team (Atlanta) to a top tier financial team. It's a minor crime that it took until 2011 for Winnipeg to return, imagine had they let Phoenix go there 3 years earlier?
Winnipeg was already a failed market. Quebec? The same. Todays hot market is only tomorrows (or yesterdays) failure.

Do you want a league where teams are moved around all the time to viable markets/owners?

NA probably has only 15 - 20 markets capable of consistently supporting NHL franchises at 57% of revenue.

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11-28-2012, 11:56 AM
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Winnipeg was already a failed market. Quebec? The same. Todays hot market is only tomorrows (or yesterdays) failure.

Do you want a league where teams are moved around all the time to viable markets/owners?

NA probably has only 15 - 20 markets capable of consistently supporting NHL franchises at 57% of revenue.
there's a difference between a hot/cold and a live/dead market;

Phoenix is a dead market, they could win the cup and they'd still lose money, there's nothing to gain staying there. The NHL clearly picked plenty of poor markets for their business and that is not the players fault.

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11-28-2012, 12:16 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by leeaf83 View Post
there's a difference between a hot/cold and a live/dead market;

Phoenix is a dead market, they could win the cup and they'd still lose money, there's nothing to gain staying there. The NHL clearly picked plenty of poor markets for their business and that is not the players fault.
Markets at that time were mostly picked on who would pay for a team.

I agree the best plan by far would be to contract ten teams, but its not gonna happen, so the league has to set up a structure knowing it will always have to have teams on life support in markets akin to Phoenix.

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11-28-2012, 12:20 PM
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Winnipeg was already a failed market. Quebec? The same. Todays hot market is only tomorrows (or yesterdays) failure.

Do you want a league where teams are moved around all the time to viable markets/owners?

NA probably has only 15 - 20 markets capable of consistently supporting NHL franchises at 57% of revenue.
Quebec moved before they had an opportunity to recover from the $$ problems they were having towards the late 80's. The three years prior to them leaving saw an increase in ticket sales. All they had to do was wait an additional year before they could have hoisted the stanley cup and the financial wind-fall that Colorado benefitted from could have saved hockey in Quebec.

Now, after seeing the response that the Jets received filling the season ticket quota in less than 4 hours (keep in mind this was a 3 year commitment) I see no reason that Quebec (with a government funded building) cannot sustain a current franchise/expansion franchise.

A rebirth of the Nordiques would be as big or bigger than the rebirth of the Winnipeg Jets.

And while not optimal I agree, I would rather have a league that has teams moving and making money over a league where they are staying in one place so long that the franchise value plummets to crap and they bleed losses for a decade forcing the leagues govenring body to pump $$ in them to keep them afloat.

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11-28-2012, 12:27 PM
  #580
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lkorac10 10:17am via TweetDeck Blues' Andy McDonald (a scale of 1-10) on seriousness of NHL players going forward with decertification: "Probably a 9." #stlblues




Don't like those "odds"

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11-28-2012, 12:57 PM
  #581
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Then the next time it's the Jets or Oilers or Flames who are in revenue trouble, they should get moved too, eh?

Be careful with the self-righteous indignation toward the poorer teams. It may be your team in the crosshairs one day.
Phoenix has been losing money forever. In fact, have they ever made money? There is a difference between showing patience with a market with a large loyal fan base that is going through an economic cold spell or a few less than great seasons, and recognizing when a market just doesn't support the product.

Gary's idea that the Canadians that fly out to Phoenix and Florida for the winter would start supporting those teams vs their home teams was just a bad one.

I don't see why it is the players responsibility to make sure these markets with small fan bases are economically viable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
lkorac10 10:17am via TweetDeck Blues' Andy McDonald (a scale of 1-10) on seriousness of NHL players going forward with decertification: "Probably a 9." #stlblues




Don't like those "odds"
The season is likely a pipedream anyways. May as well see if the nuclear option can get things rolling. Owners are more scared of decertification than the players are.

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11-28-2012, 01:00 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
lkorac10 10:17am via TweetDeck Blues' Andy McDonald (a scale of 1-10) on seriousness of NHL players going forward with decertification: "Probably a 9." #stlblues

Don't like those "odds"
Someone should tell Andy that the "negotiating in good faith" line works better if you pretend mediation has a chance of succeeding.

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11-28-2012, 01:04 PM
  #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Winnipeg was already a failed market. Quebec? The same. Todays hot market is only tomorrows (or yesterdays) failure.

Do you want a league where teams are moved around all the time to viable markets/owners?

NA probably has only 15 - 20 markets capable of consistently supporting NHL franchises at 57% of revenue.
I would say this is a good ballpark estimate. I wonder if Fehr has presented this as reality to the players. That is a lot of jobs to lose.

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11-28-2012, 01:05 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
lkorac10 10:17am via TweetDeck Blues' Andy McDonald (a scale of 1-10) on seriousness of NHL players going forward with decertification: "Probably a 9." #stlblues




Don't like those "odds"
And yet many of the players who have spoken about it said that while it's a possibility, they haven't been informed enough at this point to make a decision. Either his sources are from the likes of guys like Ryan Miller or the talk is probably a scare tactic at this point. As Freudian says -at least pretend mediation has a chance to help the situation - afterall, it was the PA that requested the mediator.

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11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I would say this is a good ballpark estimate. I wonder if Fehr has presented this as reality to the players. That is a lot of jobs to lose.
I doubt it, there is the assumption, of course driven in part by reality, that there are always taxpayers willing to pay for new arenas and owners willing to shell out outrageous sums for teams in indifferent markets .......

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11-28-2012, 01:28 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
The players aren't forcing the NHL to keep the team in Phoenix. Perhaps if the NHL would agree to move money pit teams to more viable markets the NHL wouldn't have to lock out its players every time the CBA ends. Why should the players have to pay so the NHL/Bettman can continue being intransigent by trying to make the failed Southern expansion work?
The problem is that there are not 30 markets that can support the current structure. There may not even be 20. Where are they going to move this team that it will not eventually fail anyway? Or are the players on with 50% less jobs?

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11-28-2012, 01:31 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
Winnipeg was already a failed market. Quebec? The same. Todays hot market is only tomorrows (or yesterdays) failure.

Do you want a league where teams are moved around all the time to viable markets/owners?

NA probably has only 15 - 20 markets capable of consistently supporting NHL franchises at 57% of revenue.
I would say even less. 57% is of total league HRR correct? What percentage of Detroits total revenue is 70m? What about Edmonton? Winnipeg? San Jose? Chicago?

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11-28-2012, 01:33 PM
  #588
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Mod reminder: this thread is for discussion of a possible decertification by the NHLPA and the ramifications. There are other threads for more generic CBA debates like relocation and markets. Let's stay on topic please.

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12-03-2012, 11:18 AM
  #589
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ESPN_NHL 8:30am via ESPN News NHL - Decertification would be a desperate move by the NHLPA es.pn/SGL9pT

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12-04-2012, 09:21 AM
  #590
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http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...n=jessespector

Jesse Spector: Decertification is a gamble that could take years

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12-04-2012, 09:32 AM
  #591
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I think it's obvious that decertification is a gamble, but it depends on how far the players are willing to go with it. If they decertify and the league doesn't take the bait and a deal doesn't get done soon after (similar to the NBA's situation), then the players have two options:

1. The panic now begins to rise and the PA recertifies, locks themselves in a room with the league to hammer out the best deal they can get and accepts it
2. The players are forced to see this through for as long as it takes without any comfort in knowing that their gamble will pay off

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