While Datsyuk is awesome, why people say Datsyuk is top 3 forward and exclude Zetterberg even from top 20 lists when he is just as good defensively and offensively while being a more of a direct force driving wings than shadowy setup man like Datsyuk.
Zetterberg is a great player and a star but nowhere near Datsyuk nor is he 'driving' the Wings. It's Datsyuk and Datsyuk alone. Or did their home winning streak continue right after Datsyuk went down with an injury because the 'driving force' Zetterberg carried them?
Zetterberg is a great player and a star but nowhere near Datsyuk nor is he 'driving' the Wings. It's Datsyuk and Datsyuk alone. Or did their home winning streak continue right after Datsyuk went down with an injury because the 'driving force' Zetterberg carried them?
They probably had the home winning streak because they had Datsyuk AND Zetterberg. That is pretty stupid correlation to point. and if i remember correctly Lidström went down at the same time as Datsyuk. And in playoffs Zetterberg again was the one stepping up.
They probably had the home winning streak because they had Datsyuk AND Zetterberg. That is pretty stupid correlation to point. and if i remember correctly Lidström went down at the same time as Datsyuk. And in playoffs Zetterberg again was the one stepping up.
In the last two years, Detroit has lost more games when Datsyuk hasn't played vs Zetterberg hasn't played. If you know any Red Wing fan, ask them if the offense goes to **** when Datsyuk is out or Zetterberg, I guarantee they pick Datsyuk. Wings are a totally different team when Dats is out, they struggle to even gain the zone at times because they don't have Datsyuk to carry his way into the zone.
In the last two years, Detroit has lost more games when Datsyuk hasn't played vs Zetterberg hasn't played. If you know any Red Wing fan, ask them if the offense goes to **** when Datsyuk is out or Zetterberg, I guarantee they pick Datsyuk. Wings are a totally different team when Dats is out, they struggle to even gain the zone at times because they don't have Datsyuk to carry his way into the zone.
Wings dont have great offensive depth at forward, so obviously losing your best offensive player who carries his line its going to affect the offence immensely, but if i remember correctly Zetterberg (and Filppula) were playing great after Datsyuk went down, so cant really blame them for not doing their part or gaining the zone which you obviously were implying.
And last two years Zetterberg has missed 2 games, so making conclusions by those 2 games leads hardly to a great conclusion.
Wings dont have great offensive depth at forward, so obviously losing your best offensive player who carries his line its going to affect the offence immensely, but if i remember correctly Zetterberg (and Filppula) were playing great after Datsyuk went down, so cant really blame them for not doing their part or gaining the zone which you obviously were implying.
And last two years Zetterberg has missed 2 games, so making conclusions by those 2 games leads hardly to a great conclusion.
Zetterberg and Flip did good when Datsyuk wasn't injured. When he was, they didn't produce that much which is why Detroit didn't win that many games the 2nd half of the last 2 seasons. As a Red Wing fan that watches most of the games, Zetterberg and Flip were not effective entering the zone. That is a fact.
You said Datsyuk never scored 30 goals, which was completely wrong.
Ovechkin is a faster and more explosive skater, but I'd say that Datsyuk is actually a better skater. He's not as fast as Ovechkin, but he has far more mobility and better technical ability in my opinion. His skating ability is part of the reason he is so easily able to fake out players all the time. It's not just the stickhandling. Datsyuk blows Ovechkin away defensively by the way, not just "by a hair." That's absolutely ridiculous. Datsyuk is a better playmaker, better 2-way player, better stickhandler, a smarter player, and always gives 100% effort. You'll never see Datsyuk gliding around the blueline with one hand on his stick in the defensive end or passively skate back into the zone on a backcheck. Datsyuk is the best player in the NHL without the puck, and again, he outscored Ovechkin last season in 8 less games. Datsyuk has been clearly better than Ovechkin for at least 2 years now
Noone in their right mind, as a Wings fan, would trade Datsyuk for Ovechkin and that god-awful contract.
I said Datsyuk has never scored more than 30 goals in a season, and i was off by 2 goals.
They are completely different players, Datsyuk is a playmaker while Ovechkin is a pure goal-scorer. Even in his worse season, Ovy scored twice as many goal as Datsyuk that season. I know Datsyuk possesses more intangibles and is more of a finesse player, but personally, i think ovechkin is more valuable and is more capable of changing the outcome of a game.
I said Datsyuk has never scored more than 30 goals in a season, and i was off by 2 goals.
They are completely different players, Datsyuk is a playmaker while Ovechkin is a pure goal-scorer. Even in his worse season, Ovy scored twice as many goal as Datsyuk that season. I know Datsyuk possesses more intangibles and is more of a finesse player, but personally, i think ovechkin is more valuable and is more capable of changing the outcome of a game.
Well you have the right to your own opinion but Ovy is pretty useless unless he is scoring goals. His own coach didn't even trust him in the playoffs and practically benched him for large periods of time. I prefer the player that can be trusted in any situation
I'd put Kovalchuk around the same level as James Neal, just with a much less physical game but is a more consistent scorer.
James Neal? The same player who was receiving passes from the Art Ross winner?
Kovalchuk is quite easily a top 10-5 player in the NHL.
Neal had one great year and all of sudden he's good enough to be in the same discussion as Kovalchuk?
Kovalchuk is most definitely a better skater, more physical, a better two-way player, a better goal scorer, a better shooter, a better stickhandler and better playmaker than Neal and it's not even close.
I don't ever recall Datsyuk being a star for Russia internationally or even playing as well as Kovalchuk in the RSL/ KHL. If you are to say that Neal is as good as Kovalchuk then this means that Neal is better than Datsyuk.
Kovalchuk is the second best Russian player in the NHL.
James Neal? The same player who was receiving passes from the Art Ross winner?
Kovalchuk is quite easily a top 10-5 player in the NHL.
Neal had one great year and all of sudden he's good enough to be in the same discussion as Kovalchuk?
Kovalchuk is most definitely a better skater, more physical, a better two-way player, a better goal scorer, a better shooter, a better stickhandler and better playmaker than Neal and it's not even close.
I don't ever recall Datsyuk being a star for Russia internationally or even playing as well as Kovalchuk in the RSL/ KHL. If you are to say that Neal is as good as Kovalchuk then this means that Neal is better than Datsyuk.
Kovalchuk is the second best Russian player in the NHL.
More physical and a better scorer? Neal had more hits and three less points. This isn't even homerism, I'm a Rangers fan. Kovalchuk was also receiving passes from a 95-point player in Parise. Neal is at the same level goal-scoring wise as Datsyuk and worse in the playmaking and two-way departments, but I wouldn't say Kovalchuk is better than Datsyuk.
More physical and a better scorer? Neal had more hits and three less points. This isn't even homerism, I'm a Rangers fan. Kovalchuk was also receiving passes from a 95-point player in Parise. Neal is at the same level goal-scoring wise as Datsyuk and worse in the playmaking and two-way departments, but I wouldn't say Kovalchuk is better than Datsyuk.
What season did Parise get 95 Pts?
One great season for Neal doesn't mean he's an equal or better goal scorer than Kovalchuk.
Kovalchuk has 9 straight 30+ goals season, he's nearing Jagr's and Gartner's records.
And I wasn't comparing career performance, I was comparing current performance.
I find it funny you act as if Parise is a good playmaker. There is a reason why he won't be used as a center. His vision and passing aren't all that good.
More physical and a better scorer? Neal had more hits and three less points. This isn't even homerism, I'm a Rangers fan. Kovalchuk was also receiving passes from a 95-point player in Parise. Neal is at the same level goal-scoring wise as Datsyuk and worse in the playmaking and two-way departments, but I wouldn't say Kovalchuk is better than Datsyuk.
This is full of fallacies.
Parise scored 69 points last year. Elias had 78. Parise was maybe one a 95 point player but he had a fulll year last year and didn't even score 70.
James Neal had a 55 and 39 point season. He is getting passes from Evgeni Freaking Malkin. Kovalchuk was getting them from Henrique for a majority of the year until Zajac became healthy.
Kovy's on a level above Neal, and I do like Neal. He's a talented guy, but playing with Malkin for one season doesn't suddenly put him over a guy who scores ~40 goals year in and year out.
I do expect Neal to be a consistent 30+ goal guy though.
I'd put Kovalchuk around the same level as James Neal, just with a much less physical game but is a more consistent scorer.
Yeah, James Neal practically padded Malkins stats. I remember in the playoffs he was throwing around dangerous hits against the flyers just to protect him.
That takes Malkin out of this discussion. Then we take out Ovechkin because he sucks and then Datysuk is left. Who Kovalchuk is BETTER than in shooting, leadership and basically almost everything else. Dats is only better than him at being a fancy pants with the puck and maybe passing.
Kovalchuk also did well for himself with Henrique, and Alex Ponikarovsky on a line during the playoffs. Not together the whole playoffs, but when Deboer was limiting his minutes he put them together.
More physical and a better scorer? Neal had more hits and three less points. This isn't even homerism, I'm a Rangers fan. Kovalchuk was also receiving passes from a 95-point player in Parise. Neal is at the same level goal-scoring wise as Datsyuk and worse in the playmaking and two-way departments, but I wouldn't say Kovalchuk is better than Datsyuk.
Dude, Neal has had ONE beast season and is nowhere NEAR as talented as Kovalchuk. I mean, seriously. I really, really like Neal. Also, since when is Parise a 95 point player? Again, doing something one time doesn't make you that player. Is Cheechoo a 50 goal scorer? And since when is Parise some kind of elite playmaker? He plays like Cally. Kovalchuk is a dominant offensive force who has been so consistently since entering the league and makes things happen completely on his own, no need for any kind of playmaker. He is approaching the NHL record books. Neal never had a season anything like last year until he became Malkin's linemate. This is a really bad, and seemingly uneducated argument. I'm a fellow Rangers fan so I don't mean to make any kind of insult here, but how long have you been following the game? I'm pumped about Kreider too, but your username is a rookie, you feel Neal is better than Kovalchuk after one season, and your arguments all seem to be based on very, very recent history. Kovalchuk's career, however, clearly indicates he is a vastly superior player. Very easily top 10 in the league, in my opinion, which is shared by many.
Yeah, James Neal practically padded Malkins stats. I remember in the playoffs he was throwing around dangerous hits against the flyers just to protect him.
That takes Malkin out of this discussion. Then we take out Ovechkin because he sucks and then Datysuk is left. Who Kovalchuk is BETTER than in shooting, leadership and basically almost everything else. Dats is only better than him at being a fancy pants with the puck and maybe passing.
I mean, Datsyuk has won the Selke as the BEST defensive forward in the entire NHL how many times? He leads the NHL in steals how regularly? Don't even bother. Why am I trying to ask rational questions to someone whose interest is BLATANTLY not in having a rational debate but in getting a rise out of people by posting things that they know are explicitly incorrect?
It's not amusing, and I'm surprised it's still going, frankly.
Last edited by spiny norman: 12-05-2012 at 02:27 AM.
Reason: not needed
