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Jonathan Bernier and Joe Pavelski to Toronto

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:27 AM
  #26
OLUSAF
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Lupul + is something I think both teams could consider

Lupul + MacArthur

For

Pavelski

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Old
12-04-2012, 05:00 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
That second proposal may be the worst thing I have ever seen on this board.
you must be new here

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:45 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
berniers upside is much larger than Reimer. reimer isnt even gaurenteed to be a legit starter, i see him more of a tweener or a good backup. Like a Raycroft type.
While i agree with your assesment tha "Reimer isn't guranteed to be a starter"....but how exactly is Bernier guranteed to be one?

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Old
12-04-2012, 07:22 AM
  #29
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Toronto laughs at the very notion of the first one. I'm not saying we won't trade for Bernier, but trading the much more experienced Reimer for Bernier makes no sense. Throwing a 1st on top of that is ludicrous.

As for the Sharks, I just don't see the Leafs willing to pay a substantial enough premium to get one of their centres, unless the Sharks actively decide they want to get rid of one.

The problem with a guy like Pavelski, is that you're not going to get him right now for MacArthur, Kadri, and a 3rd round pick. He's going to cost you a Kulemin, Lupul, or some other asset of substantial importance. If you do the deal for Pavelski, you've created another hole in your lineup, but haven't really filled one in the process. Pavelski's a good centre, no doubt, but he's not a #1... so even if you trade for him, you're still going to be looking for an upgrade in the middle, and as well as having to replace whoever you trade for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
berniers upside is much larger than Reimer. reimer isnt even gaurenteed to be a legit starter, i see him more of a tweener or a good backup. Like a Raycroft type.
How do you figure that a) Bernier's upside is much larger than Reimer's, and b) Reimer isn't guaranteed to be a legitimate starter while Bernier is? considering that one of them is a #1 goalie at this point in time, and the other isn't.

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Old
12-04-2012, 07:26 AM
  #30
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first offer i'd say yes. second offer i'd say herp derp

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:05 AM
  #31
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Sharks laugh at that

1st one is better though

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:25 AM
  #32
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Adding a first to Reimer may be an overpayment, but those suggesting Reimer is as good as Bernier are off base.

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:27 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
To TO: Bernier
To LA: Reimer + 1st

Kings downgrade in goal but get a 1st back. Leafs get a starter with high upside.

To TO: Pavelski
To SJ: Lombardi + Kulemim + 2nd

Leafs get a borderline #1 centre (cause Connolly is never healthy) but still a big upgrade on Bozak, Connolly, JVR, Kadri. Sharks upgrade their bottom 6 and 3rd line depth with Kulemin and Lombardi can step into Pavelskis spot.
I'm quite new to hockey and could you please be so kind as to explain how this Bernier fellow is a "starter with high upside" and how the Kings "would be downgrading" in goal with the other fellow named Reimer

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:28 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Give me one good reason aside from draft pedigree that would suggest a 1st needs to be added?

Could it have anything to do with Berniers worse career save % in less games on one of the best defensive teams in the league, or Reimers better career save % in more games on one of the worst defensive teams in the league?
You must be kidding right? Bernier has a career. .910 vs Reimer at a career .911. And remember LA might have been the top defensive team last season but that was not so before. Look also a career SO as Reimer has all of 1 more even thought he has played considerably more games. Bernier is just a better goalie and the Leafs would be a better team with him in nets.

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:34 AM
  #35
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would that be subjective or objective

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:29 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
To TO: Bernier
To LA: Reimer + 1st

Kings downgrade in goal but get a 1st back. Leafs get a starter with high upside.

To TO: Pavelski
To SJ: Lombardi + Kulemim + 2nd

Leafs get a borderline #1 centre (cause Connolly is never healthy) but still a big upgrade on Bozak, Connolly, JVR, Kadri. Sharks upgrade their bottom 6 and 3rd line depth with Kulemin and Lombardi can step into Pavelskis spot.
What the hell?

HUGE overpay on the first trade.

BIG underpay on the second one.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:29 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
To TO: Bernier
To LA: Reimer + 1st

Kings downgrade in goal but get a 1st back. Leafs get a starter with high upside.

To TO: Pavelski
To SJ: Lombardi + Kulemim + 2nd

Leafs get a borderline #1 centre (cause Connolly is never healthy) but still a big upgrade on Bozak, Connolly, JVR, Kadri. Sharks upgrade their bottom 6 and 3rd line depth with Kulemin and Lombardi can step into Pavelskis spot.
As an Oiler fan I like Bernier ,but talk about over payment or what . Reimer could be just as good and the first in a deep draft .
Reimer was rushed into the leafs net . He should have been given more time in the AHL . Then he should have only been a back up for a few seasons . How many young goalies play great then drop off because of being rushed ? Case and point CBJ and Mason .

The SJ trade would be laughed at . At this point Lombardi is a cap dump

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:29 AM
  #38
The Podium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Adding a first to Reimer may be an overpayment, but those suggesting Reimer is as good as Bernier are off base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
You must be kidding right? Bernier has a career. .910 vs Reimer at a career .911. And remember LA might have been the top defensive team last season but that was not so before. Look also a career SO as Reimer has all of 1 more even thought he has played considerably more games. Bernier is just a better goalie and the Leafs would be a better team with him in nets.
Again, not saying Reimer is better, but no one has yet to give me a definitive reason why Bernier is better? They are roughly 5 months apart in age while Reimer is more experienced with the best season to date between the both of them. To be honest i would not even trade Reimer straight up for Bernier because it is a lateral move at best, the fact that people believe a 1st must be added when Bernier has not only not lived up to his draft pedigree, but he hasnt even proved to be better than Reimer, is ridiculous. Even if LA wasnt the best team in the world a few years ago, that doesnt negate the fact that Toronto has been worse the past 2 seasons.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:32 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Sharks say a big hell no to the second one.

Two scrap players and a 2nd for Pavelski, laughable.
The fact that you think Kulemin is scraps is laughable

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:35 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLUSAF View Post
Lupul + is something I think both teams could consider

Lupul + MacArthur

For

Pavelski
Lupul had 6 more points in like 15 less games last year. It was his first year healthy yet we have to add to him to get Pavelski. Lmao nope

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:39 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Toronto laughs at the very notion of the first one. I'm not saying we won't trade for Bernier, but trading the much more experienced Reimer for Bernier makes no sense. Throwing a 1st on top of that is ludicrous.

As for the Sharks, I just don't see the Leafs willing to pay a substantial enough premium to get one of their centres, unless the Sharks actively decide they want to get rid of one.

The problem with a guy like Pavelski, is that you're not going to get him right now for MacArthur, Kadri, and a 3rd round pick. He's going to cost you a Kulemin, Lupul, or some other asset of substantial importance. If you do the deal for Pavelski, you've created another hole in your lineup, but haven't really filled one in the process. Pavelski's a good centre, no doubt, but he's not a #1... so even if you trade for him, you're still going to be looking for an upgrade in the middle, and as well as having to replace whoever you trade for him.



How do you figure that a) Bernier's upside is much larger than Reimer's, and b) Reimer isn't guaranteed to be a legitimate starter while Bernier is? considering that one of them is a #1 goalie at this point in time, and the other isn't.
I hope the Oilers hire you . You can make guarantees on young developing players . Can you tell my Oilers managers which players are guaranteed not to get injured . With our luck we could use a guarantee ...oh how long is the guarantee good for . I am looking for a 5 year 200 g 200 a 82 games a season . Can you do it ?

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:41 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Toronto laughs at the very notion of the first one. I'm not saying we won't trade for Bernier, but trading the much more experienced Reimer for Bernier makes no sense. Throwing a 1st on top of that is ludicrous.

As for the Sharks, I just don't see the Leafs willing to pay a substantial enough premium to get one of their centres, unless the Sharks actively decide they want to get rid of one.

The problem with a guy like Pavelski, is that you're not going to get him right now for MacArthur, Kadri, and a 3rd round pick. He's going to cost you a Kulemin, Lupul, or some other asset of substantial importance. If you do the deal for Pavelski, you've created another hole in your lineup, but haven't really filled one in the process. Pavelski's a good centre, no doubt, but he's not a #1... so even if you trade for him, you're still going to be looking for an upgrade in the middle, and as well as having to replace whoever you trade for him.



How do you figure that a) Bernier's upside is much larger than Reimer's, and b) Reimer isn't guaranteed to be a legitimate starter while Bernier is? considering that one of them is a #1 goalie at this point in time, and the other isn't.
Doesnt Pavelski play W now anyway? Hes not even a C anymore.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:44 AM
  #43
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The fact that you think Kulemin is scraps is laughable
He sure looked like it last year. We'll see going forward.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:06 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Doesnt Pavelski play W now anyway? Hes not even a C anymore.
He plays C and was #2 in faceoff percentage to Toews last year.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:11 AM
  #45
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If the Leafs trade their first in this draft for Bernier, I will burn every piece of Leafs paraphernalia I own.


Sharks laugh at the second proposal.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:12 AM
  #46
The Podium
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He plays C and was #2 in faceoff percentage to Toews last year.
I thought he was playing on Thorntons wing?

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:14 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Again, not saying Reimer is better, but no one has yet to give me a definitive reason why Bernier is better? They are roughly 5 months apart in age while Reimer is more experienced with the best season to date between the both of them. To be honest i would not even trade Reimer straight up for Bernier because it is a lateral move at best, the fact that people believe a 1st must be added when Bernier has not only not lived up to his draft pedigree, but he hasnt even proved to be better than Reimer, is ridiculous. Even if LA wasnt the best team in the world a few years ago, that doesnt negate the fact that Toronto has been worse the past 2 seasons.
I really don't think the difference between getting consistent starts regardless of play and getting the odd start every few weeks should be understated. Bernier traditionally has been a starter who plays a lot of games, and he's not only been dealing with the adjustment of jumping to the NHL level (like Reimer), but he's also trying to learn how to be a consistent player despite not getting the chance to really get his feet wet. That adjustment process can be a lot longer when you rarely play. Given the circumstances, Bernier's play when he has been called upon has been very good.

Some people hold Bernier's lesser total of games compared to Reimer against him, but really, we're talking about a young goalie roadblocked by arguably the best goalie in the NHL, versus a goalie who has being handed the reins due to a lack of talent in the position.

It's no coincidence that Bernier's best stretch of games in his career to date came during a time when Quick was injured and he was allowed to start several games consecutively.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:15 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
I thought he was playing on Thorntons wing?
Still played a lot of center last year. Either way, he wont forget how to play center just because he played on Thornton's wing.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:37 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
Adding a first to Reimer may be an overpayment, but those suggesting Reimer is as good as Bernier are off base.
No it's not, and you've seen why that isn't true on the cool board

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:41 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Sypher04 View Post
I really don't think the difference between getting consistent starts regardless of play and getting the odd start every few weeks should be understated. Bernier traditionally has been a starter who plays a lot of games, and he's not only been dealing with the adjustment of jumping to the NHL level (like Reimer), but he's also trying to learn how to be a consistent player despite not getting the chance to really get his feet wet. That adjustment process can be a lot longer when you rarely play. Given the circumstances, Bernier's play when he has been called upon has been very good.

Some people hold Bernier's lesser total of games compared to Reimer against him, but really, we're talking about a young goalie roadblocked by arguably the best goalie in the NHL, versus a goalie who has being handed the reins due to a lack of talent in the position.

It's no coincidence that Bernier's best stretch of games in his career to date came during a time when Quick was injured and he was allowed to start several games consecutively.
They have very, very similar stats in both the AHL and junior as well... it has nothing to do with him not getting regular starts with LA. If you flipped the goalies nobody would care about Reimer and Bernier would be labelled a bust

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