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12-03-2012, 11:08 PM
  #476
charliolemieux
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I'm only going to address the one part of this post as I know what you have written about the rest.

If you support Burke, why would you hate him at all?

You were referring to your self and not others in that statement. A supporter of anything does not hate the thing/person they support.
I'll have to remember to clarify more.

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12-03-2012, 11:42 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Here you go. Twisting things. I said tons of times he has some responsibility. Just not very much. His job is to acquire the best players and coaches he can. After that teh coaches have to coach and the players have to play.
so when Burke's teams do well(Anahiem) Burke deserved alot of the credit but when things are bad Burke has little respondsibility?

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12-03-2012, 11:52 PM
  #478
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We should really have a sticky'd thread where instead of having to regurgitate the same FACTS over and over again - one can simply point and refer to said Sticky'd thread everytime a Burke supporter comes up with one of their tired, non-sensical arguments.

It would certainly make these threads easier to sift through

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12-04-2012, 03:49 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
We should really have a sticky'd thread where instead of having to regurgitate the same FACTS over and over again - one can simply point and refer to said Sticky'd thread everytime a Burke supporter comes up with one of their tired, non-sensical arguments.

It would certainly make these threads easier to sift through
In that case, two Sticky'd threads would make more sense. For obvious reasons.

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12-04-2012, 07:22 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
LMAO really? Not everyone can make trades. Big trades are hard to do.
again, anyone can make trades, or "big" trades if you prefer. how do you judge whether a trade is good or bad? if the on-ice results don't matter, how do you judge?

Quote:
Here we go Again. Jesus. did you not read where I said about 10 times the Kessel deal ultimately turned out bad for Burke? And you wonder why I question whether you can follow along?
but how did it turn out bad? burke isn't responsible for anything kessel, seguin, hamilton, knight, etc. do on the ice. that's your logic. so how can a trade possibly turn out bad for the gm?

Quote:
You and others just can't grasp that at the time of the trade Burke only traded picks. He didn't trade Seguin, Hamliton and Knight. He couldn't. He didn't have them in his franchise.

You guys can't seperate the two.
everyone understands and grasps the fact that burke traded draft picks for kessel. the issue is whether or not that is relevant to burke's responsibility and accountabilty when it comes to this trade (and all other trades and results).

amazingly, you believe it severely reduces burke's responsibility. you believe it lets burke off the hook for this bad deal. that's what people are having a hard time understanding. everyone understands your words, just cannot understand where you are coming from, or how you can justify such ridiculous logic. and clearly, you cannot justify it.

draft picks are nothing. they're not players, they're totally intangible. they're nothing. you're saying burke got kessel for nothing. that's what people cannot understand.

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12-04-2012, 08:09 AM
  #481
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Will you guys go your whole lifetimes talking about the Kessel trade. Get over it, already.

At worst, the outcome of the trade is debatable. There isn't a single trade Burke has clearly lost (where the majority agrees): Rask-Raycroft, Toskala, etc. Burke's trade record is the least of our worries.

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12-04-2012, 09:03 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Will you guys go your whole lifetimes talking about the Kessel trade. Get over it, already.

At worst, the outcome of the trade is debatable. There isn't a single trade Burke has clearly lost (where the majority agrees): Rask-Raycroft, Toskala, etc. Burke's trade record is the least of our worries.
If you don't want to talk about that trade, I'd suggest you stay out of threads that look back on his tenure here this far. Trying to control what others are talking about is pointless.

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12-04-2012, 09:45 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
If you don't want to talk about that trade, I'd suggest you stay out of threads that look back on his tenure here this far. Trying to control what others are talking about is pointless.
Some variety would be nice. It's getting way too predictable.

How did Burke do?

The Kessel trade, blah blah blah. If his only trade that he didn't outright win (or lose) is the biggest bone his detractors have to pick with him, he's done just fine.

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12-04-2012, 09:54 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
In that case, two Sticky'd threads would make more sense. For obvious reasons.
yep. there should also be one specifically for the anti-Kessel trade people.

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12-04-2012, 10:07 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
yep. there should also be one specifically for the anti-Kessel trade people.
The good thing is, it'd be a pretty short.

________________________________

Kessel trade
Stop-gap UFAs

________________________________

End of thread.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:55 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Try to follow along. We're talking about Burke's resume. Not his just his 4 years in Toronto.

It's like we need a ticker going across the bottom to keep everyone up to speed.
Why do I give a flying "you know what" about his resume? And whats so special about it anyway? That big Cup victory? Burke is a sham. Over rated loud mouth who cannot for the life of him make this team good. Its killing him. It really is because his ego is getting batted around like a baseball at the homerun derby on All Star day. Guys like you simply keep the fire going. Feeding his ego and his legendary personna. Except its all just smoke and mirrors. Look closely at his career and you will see a lot of nothing.

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12-04-2012, 11:27 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
yep. there should also be one specifically for the anti-Kessel trade people.

Maybe a sub-forum all for bashing Burke. DO and DaveT83 could moderate.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:30 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Will you guys go your whole lifetimes talking about the Kessel trade. Get over it, already.

At worst, the outcome of the trade is debatable. There isn't a single trade Burke has clearly lost (where the majority agrees): Rask-Raycroft, Toskala, etc. Burke's trade record is the least of our worries.
The Kessel trade was made because of Burke's Ego......he set out to prove just how stupid he felt that the previous GM's were. He failed miserably. He made many moves at that time to retool the Leafs most of which were very poor.

He clearly lost the Kessel trade.....real bad in my opinion.

He stated at his original press conference that Wilson was his coach and that they shared the same beliefs......then when he fires him ( at last) he shares that they did not see eye to on what type of teams they wanted but he wanted to provide the coach with the players that would allow the coach to play the style that he wanted?

He geared the team to suit his coach to play a style that he claims that he does not agree with.....he needs to go!

A GM should be the captain of the ship....not work in the engine room.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:31 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by MajorityRules View Post
Maybe a sub-forum all for bashing Burke. DO and DaveT83 could moderate.
I believe you have the role as moderator covered.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:45 AM
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
The good thing is, it'd be a pretty short.

________________________________

Kessel trade
Stop-gap UFAs

________________________________

End of thread.
So using your logic all players not drafted by a team or traded for are only stop gap UFA....

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12-04-2012, 11:52 AM
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
The Kessel trade was made because of Burke's Ego......he set out to prove just how stupid he felt that the previous GM's were. He failed miserably. He made many moves at that time to retool the Leafs most of which were very poor.

He clearly lost the Kessel trade.....real bad in my opinion.

He stated at his original press conference that Wilson was his coach and that they shared the same beliefs......then when he fires him ( at last) he shares that they did not see eye to on what type of teams they wanted but he wanted to provide the coach with the players that would allow the coach to play the style that he wanted?

He geared the team to suit his coach to play a style that he claims that he does not agree with.....he needs to go!

A GM should be the captain of the ship....not work in the engine room.
Did you even watch the Wilson firing press conference? He clearly stated that if there *was* a difference, it was that he liked a little more grit in his teams than Wilson. That is one difference, not a complete philosophical difference in approach.

Secondly, the GM of any team listens to the needs of the coach. That's how business works, managers listen to employees. This isn't a dictatorship. My boss often asks employees what they need to be better, or how can we be more productive/efficient.

As a manager, your job is to put the pieces on the table to make your team successful. Part of that is asset management and risk management (which the Kessel deal was probably the worst judgement made by Burke.) If you are not providing the pieces to your employees they need to succeed, you are not being an effective manager.

But likely all you know about is how to manage the water and sticks for your junior high school ball hockey team.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:00 PM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
So using your logic all players not drafted by a team or traded for are only stop gap UFA....
He's not even being serious, he's taking pot shots at you

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:42 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
so when Burke's teams do well(Anahiem) Burke deserved alot of the credit but when things are bad Burke has little respondsibility?
LMAO See what I mean.

I never said that. Infact if you look back on my comments about Burkes Win in Anahiem I said he deserves less credit than he gets.

But don't let the truth stop you from making up BS.

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12-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Why do I give a flying "you know what" about his resume? And whats so special about it anyway? That big Cup victory? Burke is a sham. Over rated loud mouth who cannot for the life of him make this team good. Its killing him. It really is because his ego is getting batted around like a baseball at the homerun derby on All Star day. Guys like you simply keep the fire going. Feeding his ego and his legendary personna. Except its all just smoke and mirrors. Look closely at his career and you will see a lot of nothing.
The resume was the topic we were discussing when you quoted me.

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12-04-2012, 12:50 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Why do I give a flying "you know what" about his resume? And whats so special about it anyway? That big Cup victory? Burke is a sham. Over rated loud mouth who cannot for the life of him make this team good. Its killing him. It really is because his ego is getting batted around like a baseball at the homerun derby on All Star day. Guys like you simply keep the fire going. Feeding his ego and his legendary personna. Except its all just smoke and mirrors. Look closely at his career and you will see a lot of nothing.
Irony... this is it.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:50 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
again, anyone can make trades, or "big" trades if you prefer. how do you judge whether a trade is good or bad? if the on-ice results don't matter, how do you judge?
If big trades were easy they would happen all the time.

Twisting my words again. I never said on ice results don't matter.

Quote:
but how did it turn out bad? burke isn't responsible for anything kessel, seguin, hamilton, knight, etc. do on the ice. that's your logic. so how can a trade possibly turn out bad for the gm?
That's not my logic.
The players have to play. so if they play well and the team does good then the trade was good. Why you continue to try and twist things into a hyperbole? It is getting old fast.

Quote:
everyone understands and grasps the fact that burke traded draft picks for kessel. the issue is whether or not that is relevant to burke's responsibility and accountabilty when it comes to this trade (and all other trades and results).
It's Burke's job to acquire the best players and coaches he can. YOU can take that for whatever you want.

Quote:
amazingly, you believe it severely reduces burke's responsibility. you believe it lets burke off the hook for this bad deal. that's what people are having a hard time understanding. everyone understands your words, just cannot understand where you are coming from, or how you can justify such ridiculous logic. and clearly, you cannot justify it.
YOUr lack of understanding is not my problem.
I never said I "let him off the hook". I just don't think that deal is a reason to hang him.

I GOT PAST IT. I don't look at it filled with hate that we lost Seguin like some around here do.


Quote:
draft picks are nothing. they're not players, they're totally intangible. they're nothing. you're saying burke got kessel for nothing. that's what people cannot understand
.[/QUOTE]

Atleast you got part of it right.

Picks are not the same as trading players. Good for you.

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12-04-2012, 12:54 PM
  #497
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
. He made many moves at that time to retool the Leafs most of which were very poor.
Other than the Kessel trade (which I do not agree with you on) can you list the poor trades Burke has made for the leafs?

Please, take your time.

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12-04-2012, 01:00 PM
  #498
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Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
I believe you have the role as moderator covered.
HUh???

Quote:
Originally Posted by diceman934 View Post
So using your logic all players not drafted by a team or traded for are only stop gap UFA....
You would think after missing the mark a hundred times you would stop jumping to conclusions.

Just another example of making up BS and twisting what people say.

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12-04-2012, 01:02 PM
  #499
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Other than the Kessel trade (which I do not agree with you on) can you list the poor trades Burke has made for the leafs?

Please, take your time.
Does trading Pavel Kubina Leafs leading point producing dman 82 games 14 goals 26 assists 40 points for Garnett Exelby and Colin Stuart, in order to free cap space to sign Mike Komisarek count?

Its moves like this one that help explain why the team crashed to 29th overall, which ended up resulting in surrendering the #2 overall pick to Boston.

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12-04-2012, 01:12 PM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Does trading Pavel Kubina Leafs leading point producing dman 82 games 14 goals 26 assists 40 points for Garnett Exelby and Colin Stuart, in order to free cap space to sign Mike Komisarek count?

Its moves like this one that help explain why the team crashed to 29th overall, which ended up resulting in surrendering the #2 overall pick to Boston.
Is that all you got?

What other moves went with that one to explain the crash to 29th?

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