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Seguin vs Hall: Individual attributes

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Old
12-03-2012, 05:15 PM
  #76
MessierII
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
I assume you're talking about the 21 points Seguin got in the first month and a half of the season

he got 67 on the season so that's 31.3% of his points


....Hall got 18 of his 53 points in the first month and a half of the season,33.9% of his points
Except Hall didn't play a full season sooooooo that numbers completely skewed.

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Old
12-03-2012, 05:31 PM
  #77
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Before the streaks
Hall: 8 games- 3 goals and 8 points
Seguin: 6 games- 1 goal and 5 points
During the streaks
Hall: 9 games- 0 goals and 3 points
Seguin: 9 games- 10 goals and 15 points
After the streaks
Hall: Final 43 games- 24 goals and 42 points
Seguin: Next 43 games- 9 goals and 27 points

Seguin: Final 66 games- 18 goals and 47 points

Pretty clear that Hall has been the better player at every point of their careers outside of 1 stretch. He isn't playing in front of a Vezna winner and a Norris winner and he doesn't have a Selke nominee on his line.

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12-03-2012, 05:32 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
I assume you're talking about the 21 points Seguin got in the first month and a half of the season

he got 67 on the season so that's 31.3% of his points


....Hall got 18 of his 53 points in the first month and a half of the season,33.9% of his points
Not a good argument considering Hall played a shorter season. Even as a Seguin supporter, I will not deny that Hall was more consistent on the whole last year.

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Old
12-03-2012, 05:36 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Before the streaks
Hall: 8 games- 3 goals and 8 points
Seguin: 6 games- 1 goal and 5 points
During the streaks
Hall: 9 games- 0 goals and 3 points
Seguin: 9 games- 10 goals and 15 points
After the streaks
Hall: Final 43 games- 24 goals and 42 points
Seguin: Next 43 games- 9 goals and 27 points

Seguin: Final 66 games- 18 goals and 47 points

Pretty clear that Hall has been the better player at every point of their careers outside of 1 stretch. He isn't playing in front of a Vezna winner and a Norris winner and he doesn't have a Selke nominee on his line.
I don't see why injuries are seen as a good thing around here.

Sure, Hall had the higher PPG, but do you take someone who gets 53 points a season or 67, and doesn't get hurt in the entire length of the season, let alone missing 21 games?

Hall got 53 points, Seguin got 67 and didn't have a single injury.

What if Hall goes on a horrendous streak in the 21 games he misses? What's the excuse then? You can't tell. All that happened was that he missed more games and thus, got less points.

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12-03-2012, 06:56 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Before the streaks
Hall: 8 games- 3 goals and 8 points
Seguin: 6 games- 1 goal and 5 points
During the streaks
Hall: 9 games- 0 goals and 3 points
Seguin: 9 games- 10 goals and 15 points
After the streaks
Hall: Final 43 games- 24 goals and 42 points
Seguin: Next 43 games- 9 goals and 27 points

Seguin: Final 66 games- 18 goals and 47 points

Pretty clear that Hall has been the better player at every point of their careers outside of 1 stretch. He isn't playing in front of a Vezna winner and a Norris winner and he doesn't have a Selke nominee on his line.
I really don't get why Oiler fans always bring up that Seguin was hot to the start last season and try to overexaggerate it with statements like he scored half his point in a month and a half and then ultimately try to eliminate the best stretch of his season from his production. Every player has hot and cold streaks throughout the course of a year. You can always find some angle, Hall gets more of his points on the power play but I won't try to take that away from him as what matters is the overall production, so Seguin had 67 points and not a point less.

I also don't think that Tim Thomas and Zdeno Chara should be held against Seguin, people I think are acknowledging he has help in this area to blow Taylor Hall out of the water in +/-. Another point worth consideration is Hall gets more icetime and more sugar time than Seguin because he is on a less deep team.

Also how about the ultimate individual stat: shootouts. Here Seguin has always been better than Hall and earned the Bruins several extra points with game winners. I really like Taylor Hall by the way but a case can be made for either.

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12-03-2012, 07:30 PM
  #81
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Seguin and Hall are both top notch players but in the end I think Hall's durability will be the reason Seguin has the better overall career. Let's hope I'm wrong because I love Hall's personality and play style.

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12-03-2012, 07:31 PM
  #82
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What surprises me most about results from this poll is how people are saying it's even close in terms of shooting. For me it's Seguin and not even close. Better accuracy, equal velocity, better release, better sample size - it's all there from him.

IMO Hall is probably the better scorer though. His combination of offensive instincts, grit, and I guess, "intangibles", allows him to score more dirty goals.

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12-03-2012, 07:55 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
I really don't get why Oiler fans always bring up that Seguin was hot to the start last season and try to overexaggerate it with statements like he scored half his point in a month and a half and then ultimately try to eliminate the best stretch of his season from his production. Every player has hot and cold streaks throughout the course of a year. You can always find some angle, Hall gets more of his points on the power play but I won't try to take that away from him as what matters is the overall production, so Seguin had 67 points and not a point less.

I also don't think that Tim Thomas and Zdeno Chara should be held against Seguin, people I think are acknowledging he has help in this area to blow Taylor Hall out of the water in +/-. Another point worth consideration is Hall gets more icetime and more sugar time than Seguin because he is on a less deep team.

Also how about the ultimate individual stat: shootouts. Here Seguin has always been better than Hall and earned the Bruins several extra points with game winners. I really like Taylor Hall by the way but a case can be made for either.
I was with you the whole time til that. Come on man. Sure it's nice for a team if you have a guy that is money in the shootout, but it's the last thing I'd use to judge between quality of players.

I'd say it's still too early to say either is head and shoulders above the other. Hall is a lot more than just the points he puts up though, and watching the Oilers or the Barons this season shows that. The guy is an ugly hockey player at times, but he gets the job done.

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12-03-2012, 10:20 PM
  #84
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Seguin honestly isn't the smooth calculating player he's perceived to be by many. He's still very raw as on offensive player. Most of his current game is built around the ability to skate and shoot at an elite level. Top notch vision and passing as well, but that doesn't necessarily make him a premier playmaker. Also raw from a defensive standpoint.

In terms of shooting, that's where I think Seguin has a definite edge. Hall may be the better goal scorer, but Seguin's shooting arsenal is clearly better IMO. Release, velocity, accuracy. It's all there. He even has a heavy slap shot and a nasty backhand to go with it. Surprised so many chose Hall in that category.

Overall, I still say it's a wash.

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12-04-2012, 12:01 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BadBruins View Post
Seguin honestly isn't the smooth calculating player he's perceived to be by many. He's still very raw as on offensive player. Most of his current game is built around the ability to skate and shoot at an elite level. Top notch vision and passing as well, but that doesn't necessarily make him a premier playmaker. Also raw from a defensive standpoint.

In terms of shooting, that's where I think Seguin has a definite edge. Hall may be the better goal scorer, but Seguin's shooting arsenal is clearly better IMO. Release, velocity, accuracy. It's all there. He even has a heavy slap shot and a nasty backhand to go with it. Surprised so many chose Hall in that category.

Overall, I still say it's a wash.
Agreed, both are still raw, Hall has better goal scoring instincts, but man Seguins shot is incredible. His wristers defintely ahead of Hall's who in his own right has a great one.

Hall for sure is has a more explosive step but Seguin at top speed, might be faster from what I've seen.

Hall's better right now IMO, but Seguin could top out higher..he's even more raw then Hall is at this point.

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12-04-2012, 09:45 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Hall for sure is has a more explosive step but Seguin at top speed, might be faster from what I've seen.
Absolutely not and I can comfortably say its not even close.

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12-04-2012, 10:02 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gritzky98 View Post
Skating: Hall
Shooting: Seguin is the better shooter, but I think Hall is the better goal scorer
Passing: Seguin
Defense: Neither
Leadership: Hall AINEC
Offensive Instincts: Hall
Physicality: Hall
Durability: Seguin
Grit: Hall AINEC

Overall Offense: Slight edge to Hall
Overall Defense: Slight edge to Seguin

Better Player Now: Even
Better Player Later: Who knows
Agree except for Offensive instincts, which should be even at worst.

I'm also not sold on Seguin not having any leadership skills. Probably not up to par with Hall, but Seguin has been the youngest player on a Cup Contending team with two of the greatest leaders in the entire NHL (Bergeron and Chara), who likely wont be going anywhere soon. Its not like hes had the opportunity and miserably failed with it ya know?

I'm anxious to see Tylers progression. Dougie will be the young rook and Tyler is easily our best offensive weapon. Curious to see if he becomes more vocal/takes the next step. Big new contract on the horizon, first time hes going into the season as the "big offensive guy" on the Bruins. Should be interesting to see what transpires with him.

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12-04-2012, 10:06 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Absolutely not and I can comfortably say its not even close.
Adam McQuaid and Hall aren't even close.

Tyler Seguin and Hall are close, no matter who you think is faster.

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12-04-2012, 10:08 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Adam McQuaid and Hall aren't even close.

Tyler Seguin and Hall are close, no matter who you think is faster.
Hall is in the conversation for fastest skater in the national hockey league. Seguin is well above average but not amongst the elite.

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12-04-2012, 10:11 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Hall is in the conversation for fastest skater in the national hockey league. Seguin is well above average but not amongst the elite.
Then you haven't seen Seguin skate. Hes a burner and routinely blows by defenders. Saying "its not close" is just wrong, sorry.

I do think Hall has higher top end speed tho.

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12-04-2012, 10:17 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Then you haven't seen Seguin skate. Hes a burner and routinely blows by defenders. Saying "its not close" is just wrong, sorry.

I do think Hall has higher top end speed tho.
I've watched Seguin play since junior he's very fast. Hall is abnormally fast. It's not close. Hall could very well be the fastest skater in the NHL.

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12-04-2012, 10:22 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
I've watched Seguin play since junior he's very fast. Hall is abnormally fast. It's not close. Hall could very well be the fastest skater in the NHL.
It is close, and Hall is absolutely not the fastest player in the NHL. Hagelin/Gaborik say hello, and thats just off the top of my head.

Judging by you putting Hall as your 1st line LW in the "make a team with your favorite players" thread, forgive me if I don't take your opinion very seriously.

I do think Hall is faster, but saying its not even close is quite simply, wrong.

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12-04-2012, 10:42 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
It is close, and Hall is absolutely not the fastest player in the NHL. Hagelin/Gaborik say hello, and thats just off the top of my head.

Judging by you putting Hall as your 1st line LW in the "make a team with your favorite players" thread, forgive me if I don't take your opinion very seriously.

I do think Hall is faster, but saying its not even close is quite simply, wrong.
I'm an Oilers fan. Obviously he's one of my favorite players. Anyways I'm not mental here's some other folks that agree.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...he-nhl/page/24

Hall is top 3 fastest skaters in the NHL. That's not debatable. Seguin is fast but this isn't close.

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12-04-2012, 11:50 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
I'm an Oilers fan. Obviously he's one of my favorite players. Anyways I'm not mental here's some other folks that agree.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...he-nhl/page/24

Hall is top 3 fastest skaters in the NHL. That's not debatable. Seguin is fast but this isn't close.
Out of curiosity, how do you claim something is "not debatable" and then link to a bleacher report article?

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12-04-2012, 12:37 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
I'm an Oilers fan. Obviously he's one of my favorite players. Anyways I'm not mental here's some other folks that agree.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...he-nhl/page/24

Hall is top 3 fastest skaters in the NHL. That's not debatable. Seguin is fast but this isn't close.
All I got to say is bleacherreport, hahahahahaha

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12-04-2012, 12:39 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Blues88 View Post
Out of curiosity, how do you claim something is "not debatable" and then link to a bleacher report article?
Because I can't link the mouth of Ray Ferraro. Better than finding no links with Seguin in there.

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12-04-2012, 01:10 PM
  #97
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Straying form the template I think it boils down to this:

Tyler Seguin has a great shot, great hands, and is a decent playmaker.

Taylor Hall has a great shot, decent hands, and is a puck possession monster.

If I had to choose between the two I'd take Hall. Only because I feel there is a lot of value in a player who slopes the ice towards the opposition zone.

That said, both players are fantastic and the Oilers and the Bruins are lucky to have them.

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12-04-2012, 02:16 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Agree except for Offensive instincts, which should be even at worst.

I'm also not sold on Seguin not having any leadership skills. Probably not up to par with Hall, but Seguin has been the youngest player on a Cup Contending team with two of the greatest leaders in the entire NHL (Bergeron and Chara), who likely wont be going anywhere soon. Its not like hes had the opportunity and miserably failed with it ya know?

I'm anxious to see Tylers progression. Dougie will be the young rook and Tyler is easily our best offensive weapon. Curious to see if he becomes more vocal/takes the next step. Big new contract on the horizon, first time hes going into the season as the "big offensive guy" on the Bruins. Should be interesting to see what transpires with him.
Yea i had a tough time choosing offensive instincts, went with Hall since he plays on a team thats not as defensively defined as the Bruins, Could be either tho.
When it comes to leadership, Halls definitely the go to guy going forward on the Oilers. Seguin could be a good leader too but with guys like Chara and Bergeron on that team I doubt hell ever have the leadership opportunities Hall will have unless Seguin gets traded, which will probably not happen anytime soon.

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12-04-2012, 02:18 PM
  #99
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[B]Skating:Hall(Not Close)
Shooting:Hall(both good shooters,Hall by a Hair)
Passing:Seguin(By a very slight edge)
Defense:Draw(There Both Solid)
Leadership:Hall(Not Close IMO)
Offensive Instincts:Seguin(Its close but right now Tyler by a Hair)
Physicality:Hall
Durability:Seguin
Grit:Hall(Not Close)

Overall Offense:Draw
Overall Defense:Seguin

Better Player Now:Hall
Better Player Later:Hall(Only time will tell tho)

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12-04-2012, 02:34 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clode View Post
its these kinds of threads where the opinions of oilers fans and bruins fans are invalid because obviously every oilers fan is going to say hall is better and every bruins fan is going to say seguin is better
I'm a Bruins fan and season ticket holder two rows from the ice (thanks dad) behind net, and I mean behind net and I'd take Hall. however, Seguin is getting short changed here....Hall should be 40 a year lock, what concerns me is he gives he impression he is going to get dinged or more, more than Seguin who seems to have divine guidance looking over him.

Hall for me but Seguin is pretty damn good

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