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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XX-Time for Rebuilding

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Old
12-03-2012, 10:43 PM
  #801
Jeff from Maine
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Originally Posted by Hazi View Post
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...rting-pitcher/

Ouch!! So either they know they can't get more than 1 pitcher in Free Agency, are going to trade a position player(s) for pitching, or they are going to trade a starting pitcher. Maybe Lester will be traded?

If Lester is traded I wouldn't do it for Myers. It better be some MLB ready prospects, an OF, or a 1st baseman. I'm iffy on Myers because I have to ask myself why he is being shopped if KC won't even come close to the Playoffs for some time? Since Myers is controlled for 6 years, why doesn't KC rebuild with him?

C'mon guys what's with all the Jerry Sands hate ? I say that price was less to pay rather than giving a starting pitcher (Lester) for Myers, a player you guys are comparing with Sands. We got him in a package for a utility man (Punto), a chicken eating beer drinking out of shape pitcher (Beckett), and a power hitter that lost all his power that year (Gonzalez). Although I can't guarantee he'll be the answer for us in the OF or at 1st base, I can guarantee we'll see "The Sandman" make his debut this season
KC is NOT far from the playoffs. A guy like Lester or Shields put them right in the middle of the wild card chase. KC is a team that is on the rise and will be knocking on the door before you know it.

And it takes giving up some very good assets to get one.

Pretty easy to see.

Later

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Old
12-03-2012, 10:54 PM
  #802
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Get a stud OF then focus on the rotation. Do it Cherington!

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12-03-2012, 11:01 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by Gator Mike View Post
The Sox were also dead last in all of baseball in runs scored after the Punto trade. They've got to work on the rotation AND the offense. They're equally important.
You're looking at a very small sample size there (36 games). Neither Ortiz nor Middlebrooks played in those final 36 games and I'm pretty sure Pedroia and Ellsbury were hurt even though they were playing through it. Of course you're not going to score many runs when you have guys like Ross, Salty, and Loney hitting 3rd/4th.

I also disagree about the pitching and offense being equally important.

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12-04-2012, 02:09 AM
  #804
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I don't even care if the player they sign is an "impact outfielder". Hamilton, Swisher, Victorino, Ross, Kalish, Nava, etc. Doesn't matter to me.

The main focus should be pitching, pitching, and more pitching. The team was fifth in runs and sixth in OPS and still lost 93 games. I'm much more concerned about the starting rotation than I am about who will be batting sixth after Ellsbury, Pedroia, Ortiz, Middlebrooks, and Napoli.
I agree 100 percent. We need to revamp the pitching rotations if we want to be a baseball powerhouse again. As long as our bats stay relatively healthy, it's a top 10 offense and one that's good enough to make the playoffs without adding a big bat IMO ( and I am all for adding Hamilton ). But our pitching is in the bottom 5 rung of the league. If that doesn't change, I don't expect our position in the standings to change in 2013 from what it was in 2012. Pitching needs to be the number 1 focus for the Red Sox.

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12-04-2012, 02:23 AM
  #805
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Great satire.

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12-04-2012, 07:29 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
Really really.

I would do ONE with a combination of a pitcher and a lower prospect. By not both of them.
For Felix Hernandez or RA Dickey? If it's for Felix Hernandez then I am sorry but you are crazy. I understand getting attached to prospects as Red Sox fans are famous for, but you do that deal for King every day of the week.

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12-04-2012, 08:03 AM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Jeff from Maine View Post
KC is NOT far from the playoffs. A guy like Lester or Shields put them right in the middle of the wild card chase. KC is a team that is on the rise and will be knocking on the door before you know it.

And it takes giving up some very good assets to get one.

Pretty easy to see.

Later
The Royals won 72 games.

In a ****** division.

They had a -70 run differential.

The idea that they are just one pitcher away for next season doesn't seem "easy to see."

Adios.

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:00 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
it's not like first is a particularly demanding position. mark reynolds picked it up and he was about as bad as defensive player as you could find at third.
It's not and people have made the transition but it's far from a sure thing that Napoli is going to slot over there and be good, like some here are taking it as a given. The fact that he's barely logged any time over there during his career makes it an adjustment for him, even if the position isn't all that demanding. How well he adjusts is yet to be determined.

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12-04-2012, 09:40 AM
  #809
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I don't understand the importance of preserving the 2nd round pick on qualifying offer players. The first round pick is protected and I'm just taking a shot in the dark but any player the sox draft in or after the 2nd round has similar impact potential as guys taken in the 10th. 2011 they drafted William Jerez in the second. 2010, Brandon workman. 2009 William wilson. 2008 Derik gibson. 2007 Jeffrey Morris.

Outside of workman I say, who?

Losing a seconfaro under as far as I'm concerned is meaningless if they can sign a regular at any position

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12-04-2012, 09:49 AM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Montecristo View Post
I don't understand the importance of preserving the 2nd round pick on qualifying offer players. The first round pick is protected and I'm just taking a shot in the dark but any player the sox draft in or after the 2nd round has similar impact potential as guys taken in the 10th. 2011 they drafted William Jerez in the second. 2010, Brandon workman. 2009 William wilson. 2008 Derik gibson. 2007 Jeffrey Morris.

Outside of workman I say, who?

Losing a seconfaro under as far as I'm concerned is meaningless if they can sign a regular at any position
The Orioles used the Red Sox second rounder they received as compensation for the Sox signing Dick Drago to draft Cal Ripken

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12-04-2012, 10:05 AM
  #811
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Originally Posted by DKH View Post
The Orioles used the Red Sox second rounder they received as compensation for the Sox signing Dick Drago to draft Cal Ripken
I don't know if Draft patterns follow the same path now that they did 34 years ago

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12-04-2012, 10:28 AM
  #812
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And you can find at least one stud in literally any round of any draft in any sport, so again, not particularly relevant.

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12-04-2012, 11:18 AM
  #813
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The Orioles used the Red Sox second rounder they received as compensation for the Sox signing Dick Drago to draft Cal Ripken
Dan, You are showing your age with that statement.

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12-04-2012, 11:27 AM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
And you can find at least one stud in literally any round of any draft in any sport, so again, not particularly relevant.
I don't think Dan was saying they would find a Ripken with said pick, only that dismissing any draft choice so arbitrarily was short sighted. And you know what? He's right. It's easy to say it's just a second round pick, but all that does is devalue your own asset.

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12-04-2012, 11:46 AM
  #815
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
I don't think Dan was saying they would find a Ripken with said pick, only that dismissing any draft choice so arbitrarily was short sighted. And you know what? He's right. It's easy to say it's just a second round pick, but all that does is devalue your own asset.

Im just playing the percentages. If nick swisher is available to sign for a 2nd round pick and Ben cherington wants swisher, he shouldn't shy away from signing swisher on the very off chance the second round selection turns into a superior player. The MLB draft is a crapshoot anyway and id wager that the most likely scenario for a 2nd rounder is a career that doesn't amount to what any FA with a qualifying offer has had and will have in the future. I'm not saying its without risk, on the off chance you land an all star with the 2nd rounder, but the risk is so minimal I would not even weigh the decision out if I'm bringing in a ML player who can help you win immediately.

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12-04-2012, 12:07 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Montecristo View Post
Im just playing the percentages. If nick swisher is available to sign for a 2nd round pick and Ben cherington wants swisher, he shouldn't shy away from signing swisher on the very off chance the second round selection turns into a superior player. The MLB draft is a crapshoot anyway and id wager that the most likely scenario for a 2nd rounder is a career that doesn't amount to what any FA with a qualifying offer has had and will have in the future. I'm not saying its without risk, on the off chance you land an all star with the 2nd rounder, but the risk is so minimal I would not even weigh the decision out if I'm bringing in a ML player who can help you win immediately.
And I don't think he would. Further, I don't think anyone in this thread thinks he would.

It's just that if the Sox are assigning a value to each player in terms of what they're worth in dollars, clearly a factor should be whether said player requires a draft pick. It's likely the effect of losing a pick is minimal, but who knows how minimal and surely that varies based on team, positional need, PR benefit, etc. I wouldn't say it's of no import, as you seem to suggest though.

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12-04-2012, 12:10 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by Montecristo View Post
Im just playing the percentages. If nick swisher is available to sign for a 2nd round pick and Ben cherington wants swisher, he shouldn't shy away from signing swisher on the very off chance the second round selection turns into a superior player. The MLB draft is a crapshoot anyway and id wager that the most likely scenario for a 2nd rounder is a career that doesn't amount to what any FA with a qualifying offer has had and will have in the future. I'm not saying its without risk, on the off chance you land an all star with the 2nd rounder, but the risk is so minimal I would not even weigh the decision out if I'm bringing in a ML player who can help you win immediately.
I'd rather have the draft pick. If it were Hamilton that's one thing. Swisher isn't worth it in my opinion. Especially when victorino can play rf and requires no draft pick. Or even cody ross.

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12-04-2012, 12:55 PM
  #819
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pinching pennies has a lot to do with the new cba.

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:50 PM
  #820
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For Felix Hernandez or RA Dickey? If it's for Felix Hernandez then I am sorry but you are crazy. I understand getting attached to prospects as Red Sox fans are famous for, but you do that deal for King every day of the week.
realistically they'd want Bogaerts, JBJ, Barnes, Doubront, and probably another top prospect. And that's all we have. I'm not giving up all my prospects for one player. Even if it IS the King.

I'd part with JBJ, but I'd keep Barnes and Bogaerts. Unless you're getting someone else.

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:59 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
realistically they'd want Bogaerts, JBJ, Barnes, Doubront, and probably another top prospect. And that's all we have. I'm not giving up all my prospects for one player. Even if it IS the King.

I'd part with JBJ, but I'd keep Barnes and Bogaerts. Unless you're getting someone else.
I believe you said you wouldn't trade Bogaerts and JBJ for Hernandez though...thats the part I thought was nuts.

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
The Royals won 72 games.

In a ****** division.

They had a -70 run differential.

The idea that they are just one pitcher away for next season doesn't seem "easy to see."

Adios.
Shall we change your name to EverettMiguel ? HAHAHA

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:01 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by kman22 View Post
I'd rather have the draft pick. If it were Hamilton that's one thing. Swisher isn't worth it in my opinion. Especially when victorino can play rf and requires no draft pick. Or even cody ross.
Swisher is terrible. He would be the JD Drew you expected when you got JD Drew and not the legend. He is the epitome of anti-clutch.

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:22 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
Dan, You are showing your age with that statement.
I know- but i'm still probably the most immature person here (Glorydaze will vouch)

The guy I love is Brandon McCarthy, and not because he is on my APBA team- got real good stuff and I'm not talking about his girlfriend

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12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
  #825
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Victorino appears to be down to 3 teams, the indians, red sox and a 3rd team. not a true mystery team, I just don't know it

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