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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIII: "The 11th Hour" Edition

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:33 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Even McKenzie is being [intentionally] vague. It's starting to make me somewhat optimistic.
Cant get on board with that.

I just think he doesnt want to throw Burton under the bus

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12-04-2012, 11:36 AM
  #227
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Cant get on board with that.
I just think he doesnt want to throw Burton under the bus
It's a longshot, but I'm surprised by the lack of quick dismissal for this report.

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12-04-2012, 11:39 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Even McKenzie is being [intentionally] vague. It's starting to make me somewhat optimistic.
How was he vague? He stated specifically that he hadn't heard anything.

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12-04-2012, 11:53 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Even McKenzie is being [intentionally] vague. It's starting to make me somewhat optimistic.
i didn't read it that way at all...he is trying to be politically correct toward a fellow reporter and shot down the rumor without throwing the guy under the bus for making stuff up.

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12-04-2012, 11:57 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
It's a longshot, but I'm surprised by the lack of quick dismissal for this report.
there WAS a quick dismissal. within minutes of it coming out on twitter, there were quotes from daly saying it was total bs.

and on the flipside, after this whole lockout and covering all the pointless bs meetings, if there was even an ounce of truth to this don't you think the big reporters would be all over it? those guys called their sources and found nothing.

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12-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #231
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Man, I miss watching the game and the team. It's like a part of me is gone.

#puckthepuckinglockout

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12-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #232
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This afternoon, the players will meet a group of owners.
The 18 players present in New York today are: Craig Adams, David Backes, Michael Cammalleri, Sidney Crosby, B.J. Crombeen, Mathieu Darche, Shane Doan, Ron Hainsey, Shawn Horcoff, Jamal Mayers, Manny Malhotra, Andy McDonald, Ryan Miller, George Parros, Brad Richards, Martin St. Louis, Jonathan Toews and Kevin Westgarth.
No Europeans?

Strange
Good Brad is there though
George Parros needs to show them his best stuff...

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12-04-2012, 12:50 PM
  #233
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Parros is a really smart guy...went to princeton, i think i read he wrote his thesis on labor disputes or something. good guy to have in the room.

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12-04-2012, 01:08 PM
  #234
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I don't think you can negotiate an agreement on anything with 26 to 30 people in a room. You have way to many people in the room. I'm on the Players side in this mess but it's wrong to show up with that many people. You won't accomplish anything. The time for showing unity in these meetings has is over.

I'll say this though. I've posted on these boards for almost 10 years and I've never ever claimed to be some insider. I do however have a friend that knows Steve Burton very well. I asked my friend this morning how confident he is in Burton's report and he told me that Burton is 1000% confident and my friend went a step further. He said that a meeting took place yesterday in Boston and part of the PR spin with a future agreement is to make it look like significant progress towards a deal is struck in the meeting today between the players and owners. It saves face for the league and the players. The reasoning being people like to see compromise and both sides see today's meeting as something that puts a positive spin on the lockout. Two sides coming together for the good of the league. Sounds plausible but is it fantasy? I don't know...It probably is..

I obviously have no details but I trust my friend. Now, could my friend be wrong or could Burton be led on? Absolutely. Again, I've never claimed to be an insider, I've never posted something as an insider...I'm not...So take it with a grain of salt...I'm skeptical that it's all true but I'm hopeful. I'm taking it with a few grains of salt!

Now I'll go back to my posting sabbatical...Happy Holidays to everyone!

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12-04-2012, 01:18 PM
  #235
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Really interesting stuff SOS.

Guess the reaction from today's meeting could provide a hint.

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12-04-2012, 01:22 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I don't think you can negotiate an agreement on anything with 26 to 30 people in a room. You have way to many people in the room. I'm on the Players side in this mess but it's wrong to show up with that many people. You won't accomplish anything. The time for showing unity in these meetings has is over.
I think the players said they specifically did not want this to be a bargaining session, but more of a discussion about where each side is coming from

As for the rest of what you said...well, that'd be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.

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12-04-2012, 01:26 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I don't think you can negotiate an agreement on anything with 26 to 30 people in a room. You have way to many people in the room. I'm on the Players side in this mess but it's wrong to show up with that many people. You won't accomplish anything. The time for showing unity in these meetings has is over.

I'll say this though. I've posted on these boards for almost 10 years and I've never ever claimed to be some insider. I do however have a friend that knows Steve Burton very well. I asked my friend this morning how confident he is in Burton's report and he told me that Burton is 1000% confident and my friend went a step further. He said that a meeting took place yesterday in Boston and part of the PR spin with a future agreement is to make it look like significant progress towards a deal is struck in the meeting today between the players and owners. It saves face for the league and the players. The reasoning being people like to see compromise and both sides see today's meeting as something that puts a positive spin on the lockout. Two sides coming together for the good of the league. Sounds plausible but is it fantasy? I don't know...It probably is..

I obviously have no details but I trust my friend. Now, could my friend be wrong or could Burton be led on? Absolutely. Again, I've never claimed to be an insider, I've never posted something as an insider...I'm not...So take it with a grain of salt...I'm skeptical that it's all true but I'm hopeful. I'm taking it with a few grains of salt!

Now I'll go back to my posting sabbatical...Happy Holidays to everyone!
For someone who's well respected on the board and someone who hasn't posted in over a year to come back to reveal the information that was passed on to him is encouraging to say the least.

Even if it doesn't turn out to be true, thanks for coming forward with what you think may be true SoS. Much appreciated. Come back more often.

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Old
12-04-2012, 01:28 PM
  #238
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Please be over soon. I can't read anymore about the PA ruining hockey while the same guys defend management for signing players under the old rules when they are proposing more restrictive rules. No more please.

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12-04-2012, 01:32 PM
  #239
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Please be over soon. I can't read anymore about the PA ruining hockey while the same guys defend management for signing players under the old rules when they are proposing more restrictive rules. No more please.
Who has said the PA is ruining hockey?

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12-04-2012, 01:55 PM
  #240
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I think it's fair to say that both sides are ruining hockey. Not exclusively one or the other. They're equally to blame.

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12-04-2012, 02:03 PM
  #241
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Finally doing research, I noticed that the lockout was unanimously voted for by the BOG. Why did the Rangers vote for one?
1992 NHLPA strike and 1994 MLB strike

The option to play a year without a CBA was never viable because of those 2 events ,, Every team was supportive of lockout because you cant play without a CBA especially when Fehr or NHLPA is involved

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12-04-2012, 02:19 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
1992 NHLPA strike and 1994 MLB strike

The option to play a year without a CBA was never viable because of those 2 events ,, Every team was supportive of lockout because you cant play without a CBA especially when Fehr or NHLPA is involved
But wouldn't there still be a lockout if the Rangers were the only team to vote against it?

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12-04-2012, 02:29 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
1992 NHLPA strike and 1994 MLB strike

The option to play a year without a CBA was never viable because of those 2 events ,, Every team was supportive of lockout because you cant play without a CBA especially when Fehr or NHLPA is involved
If both sides agreed to play another year on the current CBA while negotiating (which is what the NHLPA offered to do), then the NHLPA wouldn't have been able to strike (it's forbidden by the CBA)

It's not an issue of striking, it's more that there really wouldn't be any incentive for the NHLPA to hurry up and get a deal done, they'd just ride out another year making some big money and we'd be in the same spot next summer. Well, maybe there'd be more negotiating during the season, but it really would remove a lot of the owners leverage and they didn't want another year of the same CBA.

e: So while it was good press for the NHLPA to say "hey we offered to play and the NHL refused, they're the ones taking away hockey!" I really don't blame the owners for actually locking the players out. I blame them for lots of things but that particular move isn't one of them.

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:30 PM
  #244
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But wouldn't there still be a lockout if the Rangers were the only team to vote against it?
Yes

But the idea that they didn't vote for it is absurd ,, Even Snider who badly wants to play was in favor of it

NHL couldn't continue with the CBA they had and the NHLPA refusal to talk made it a easy vote

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12-04-2012, 02:31 PM
  #245
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If both sides agreed to play another year on the current CBA while negotiating (which is what the NHLPA offered to do), then the NHLPA wouldn't have been able to strike (it's forbidden by the CBA)

It's not an issue of striking, it's more that there really wouldn't be any incentive for the NHLPA to hurry up and get a deal done, they'd just ride out another year making some big money and we'd be in the same spot next summer. Well, maybe there'd be more negotiating during the season, but it really would remove a lot of the owners leverage and they didn't want another year of the same CBA.
CBA was not viable for another year

To many teams losing $$$ and with projected cap of 70M and a floor rising as well it was the NHL's right via the CBA to end it

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12-04-2012, 02:34 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
CBA was not viable for another year

To many teams losing $$$ and with projected cap of 70M and a floor rising as well it was the NHL's right via the CBA to end it
Yes, from the NHL's point of view I agree. I'm just saying those were the real reasons behind the lockout, not that they needed to worry about the NHLPA striking

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12-04-2012, 02:56 PM
  #247
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Yes, from the NHL's point of view I agree. I'm just saying those were the real reasons behind the lockout, not that they needed to worry about the NHLPA striking
Yes ,, But you have to vote for lockout at that meeting because there was no viable other choice was my point

It was lockout or gamble that NHLPA walks off at some point in season and screws the owners

NHLPA still has yet to actually sit down and negotiate off NHL offer ,, Imagine how bad they would be acting if there was a season underway

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12-04-2012, 02:58 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Yes ,, But you have to vote for lockout at that meeting because there was no viable other choice was my point

It was lockout or gamble that NHLPA walks off at some point in season and screws the owners

NHLPA still has yet to actually sit down and negotiate off NHL offer ,, Imagine how bad they would be acting if there was a season underway
and the owners have made any concessions?

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:05 PM
  #249
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Pretty soon the arguments are going to be re-hashed verbatim from Lockout Thread Part IV.

Hockey please come back.

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12-04-2012, 03:14 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Yes ,, But you have to vote for lockout at that meeting because there was no viable other choice was my point

It was lockout or gamble that NHLPA walks off at some point in season and screws the owners

NHLPA still has yet to actually sit down and negotiate off NHL offer ,, Imagine how bad they would be acting if there was a season underway
I think we're on the same page and essentially saying the same things, except you seem to be saying that the NHL could have played without a CBA in place and I think that was never on the table to begin with (I'm pretty sure but not 100% that the NHLPA offered to extend the current CBA one year, not just go out and play hockey and not worry about that part. In the scenario of extending the CBA, then the players would not have been able to strike because the CBA prohibits the players striking)

I do have to laugh about the whole argument pertaining to the NHLPA not bargaining off of the NHLs proposal, because the proposals the NHLPA put forth are just as valid as a starting point for negotiations, but everyone jumps on the leagues side since their proposal is closer to what we're familiar with and the league was very vocal about saying "it's our way or no way at all" so people threw up their hands and said "welp it better be based off the leagues proposal then!"

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