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20 Greatest Red Wings (#2)

View Poll Results: Who is the #2 Red Wing of All-Time?
Steve Yzerman 56 71.79%
Sergei Fedorov 4 5.13%
Ted Lindsay 1 1.28%
Sid Abel 0 0%
Alex Delvecchio 0 0%
Norm Ullman 0 0%
Brendan Shanahan 0 0%
Syd Howe 0 0%
Pavel Datsyuk 1 1.28%
Henrik Zetterberg 0 0%
Larry Aurie 0 0%
Marty Barry 1 1.28%
Nicklas Lidstrom 14 17.95%
Red Kelly 0 0%
Ebbie Goodfellow 0 0%
Jack Stewart 0 0%
Vladimir Konstantinov 0 0%
Paul Coffey 0 0%
Terry Sawchuk 0 0%
Chris Osgood 1 1.28%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-03-2012, 02:47 PM
  #26
TS Quint
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Originally Posted by Zorin View Post
For D-men it's a coinflip between Lidström and Bourque for their time. Depends on what style you like more. Harvey lived in a completely different era. So did Orr. The latter redefined the game of a d-man, so I give him the edge.

Regarding the best Redwing: I think it is no competition for 1st really. Howe defined the powerforward, he dominated the game for decades, he played for Detroit what seems to be multiple milenii and gives Gretzky competition for the best player of all time with Lemieux and Orr being runner up.
After that we have Yzerman who turned the dead things into a very good - in latter stages the dominant franchise of it's time. He played here for a very long time and carried the team on his back almost a decade. Something Nick never had to do. When he came into the league he had Stevie, he was accompanied by the likes of Feds, Vladdy, Kozzie and other great players. The team featured Ciccarelli or Primeau, Sheppard or - in replacement - Larionov.

So I think in terms of greatness in the eyes of fans Stevie has the edge over Nick. But its close. And honestly, Stevie is no slouch. It is no shame to be a tad behind him - especially in terms of being loved by wings fans.
That does not mean you are not loved - and even less that you are not a great player! Look who is BEHIND him. Is there no love for Vladdy, Feds, Shanny, Sawchuk, Lindsay, Kelly or Delvecchio?! Yes there is. Heaps of! But there is MORE for Gordie, Stevie Y and St. Nick. So I think it is a pretty good list so far. And everybody who makes the top-10 (or even the Top 20 or 30 for that matter) ALL TIME in a franchise as storied as the Redwings is (or was) a darn good player and a pretty much loved and pretty well respected player.
You do not say that Lemieux, Orr, Yzerman or Lidström are jerks, because you call Gretzky and Howe the best players to ever play the game....
Lemieux had more PPG than Gretzky the first time he retired. For that Lemieux is in the running with Gretzky for best of all time making Howe 3rd.

i don't think playing on a bad team should get you anything more than sympathy. I would credit Bowman more than anyone for turning around the Wings. He brought in a winning culture and changed the way Yzerman played for the bennifit of the team. Yzerman followed Bowmans lead. And even when all of those guys you listed left. Lidstrom was as good if not better. How does listing all those guys only help Lidstrom and not Yzerman. If anything I think Lidstrom helped them out just as much.

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12-03-2012, 03:00 PM
  #27
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The way I think of it (I don't expect to change anyone's mind but I'll throw it out there) nobody noticed Lidstrom for the first 9 years of his career. In my opinion it was complete BS Pronger won the Norris in 2000 for having the best +/- when Lidstrom had 11 more points. I'm a big believer that points aren't everything but we all know that Lidtsrom didn't compromise his defense to put up those numbers. 97/98 Rob Blake are you kidding me? He was a minus player. Lidstrom was penalized for playing for playing mistake free hockey where he never had to look spectacular because he didn't make the mistakes that you would have to look spectacular to fix. It took 10 years and Yzerman's retirement for people to notice that. He was also penalized for playing on a good team and being Swedish.

What other player can say they dominated for 20 years? Outside of Howe no one can say they dominated for that kind of time line.

Harvey= in Norris Trophies but in a 6 team league and an overall smaller pool of players to choose from that just doesn't carry the same weight.

Ray Borque not even close. Great yes as good or dominant as Lidstrom? Nope. Only 5 Norris Trophies nuff said

Yes I love Yzerman (how can you not) but when you have easily the 2nd best Dman of all time to compete with. I don't think Yzerman was 2nd best at anything in the league nevermind all time. He was great at a lot of things was his strength. If I thought that Lidstrom and Yzerman we tied I might use leadership as a tie breaker and Yzerman might win. But its not like Yzerman blows Lidstrom away in the leadership category. Lidstrom was largely looked upon as one of the best leaders in the league. He was just not as open with the media.

.
As good as Lidstrom was, I rarely saw him dominate games.

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12-03-2012, 03:06 PM
  #28
TS Quint
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As good as Lidstrom was, I rarely saw him dominate games.
he played 28min/game every game as one of the best offensive and defensive Dmen in the league year after year. Not sure what you consider dominating.

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12-03-2012, 03:21 PM
  #29
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I hate when Harvey gets brought up as better than a defender that dominated the position in an era when the game has never been more competitive and international.

Orr I can understand, sort of, but the Harvey love must have been passed down from your pops or granddad.
No the Harvey love stems from watching the man play. So what does Lidström better than Harvey? And dont make the 6 team argument.

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12-03-2012, 03:26 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
The way I think of it (I don't expect to change anyone's mind but I'll throw it out there) nobody noticed Lidstrom for the first 9 years of his career. In my opinion it was complete BS Pronger won the Norris in 2000 for having the best +/- when Lidstrom had 11 more points. I'm a big believer that points aren't everything but we all know that Lidtsrom didn't compromise his defense to put up those numbers. 97/98 Rob Blake are you kidding me? He was a minus player. Lidstrom was penalized for playing for playing mistake free hockey where he never had to look spectacular because he didn't make the mistakes that you would have to look spectacular to fix. It took 10 years and Yzerman's retirement for people to notice that. He was also penalized for playing on a good team and being Swedish.

What other player can say they dominated for 20 years? Outside of Howe no one can say they dominated for that kind of time line.

Harvey= in Norris Trophies but in a 6 team league and an overall smaller pool of players to choose from that just doesn't carry the same weight.

Ray Borque not even close. Great yes as good or dominant as Lidstrom? Nope. Only 5 Norris Trophies nuff said

Yes I love Yzerman (how can you not) but when you have easily the 2nd best Dman of all time to compete with. I don't think Yzerman was 2nd best at anything in the league nevermind all time. He was great at a lot of things was his strength. If I thought that Lidstrom and Yzerman we tied I might use leadership as a tie breaker and Yzerman might win. But its not like Yzerman blows Lidstrom away in the leadership category. Lidstrom was largely looked upon as one of the best leaders in the league. He was just not as open with the media.

.
Bourque only 5 norrises? Man, you are the anti-rhiessan.

Bourque has 13 1st ASTs and another 6 2nd ASTs. While I do agree that Lidström was unnoticed, he wasn't at that level that he wouldve won a norris in his first years. '96 would be the first time he might have been given some nods.

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12-03-2012, 03:34 PM
  #31
TS Quint
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No the Harvey love stems from watching the man play. So what does Lidström better than Harvey? And dont make the 6 team argument.
Why can't the 6 team argument be made?

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12-03-2012, 03:40 PM
  #32
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Bourque only 5 norrises? Man, you are the anti-rhiessan.

Bourque has 13 1st ASTs and another 6 2nd ASTs. While I do agree that Lidström was unnoticed, he wasn't at that level that he wouldve won a norris in his first years. '96 would be the first time he might have been given some nods.
Can't tell if you are arguing with me or agreeing with me.......

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12-03-2012, 10:38 PM
  #33
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As good as Lidstrom was, I rarely saw him dominate games.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:41 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Lidstrom can't even get propper respect from Wings fans. What does this guy have to do? He's only the 2nd best Dman to play the game, I can make a couple of arguements to make him the best to play the game and he's not the second best Wing? I love Stevie but come on guys.
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not voting for who is the best hockey player, I'm voting for who was the best Red Wing. I love Stevie that's why I picked him in the first and second polling. I am also very fond of Nick Lidstrom but just a bit less.

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12-04-2012, 12:11 PM
  #35
TS Quint
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Originally Posted by Vyacheslav View Post
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not voting for who is the best hockey player, I'm voting for who was the best Red Wing. I love Stevie that's why I picked him in the first and second polling. I am also very fond of Nick Lidstrom but just a bit less.
That's a different agle than I was coming from but fair.

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:25 PM
  #36
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Stevie Y's reputation went beyond Detroit. He wasn't just a great centre, he was one of the all-time great captains - and I say this as a Habs fan. Every team coveted Lidstrom as an amazing D, but he didn't have the same aura as Yzerman.

By the way, if you're comparing all-time defensemen, I have to give some props to Larry Robinson.

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