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2012-13 CIS Men's Hockey Top 10

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:43 PM
  #51
northvanman
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My two cents: how does UQTR get a first place vote when the team three slots below them in the rankings just took 3 of 4 points from them? IMO, the "correct" order of the ranked OUA teams right now is Windsor, Western, Lakehead, UQTR

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11-13-2012, 07:17 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gleanerguy View Post
My two cents: How does UNB get a number one vote from a pollster when they're not even number one in their conference?
You could swap positions with STU and Dave would still vote #1.

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11-13-2012, 07:48 PM
  #53
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How does Alberta get 10 first place votes to Sask's 2 when Saskatchewan has a better record (winning percentage-wise) and beat Alberta in both meetings so far this season??

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11-13-2012, 08:12 PM
  #54
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He's got a point.

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Old
11-13-2012, 08:22 PM
  #55
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I don't have a vote, but I believe it fluctuates due to recent trends: Alberta has won six in a row; Saskatchewan split against Regina. I don't see how UNB warrants a number one in the country vote when they beat a team everyone has been bashing as just about the worst in the country (they're supposed to, and they've done it for six years now) and gets a one goal win on the road on a third period goal. That -- and the fact that the women's hockey rankings aren't available yet this week because the co-ordinator in Alberta couldn't be reached to submit them -- strain the credibility of these lists. Now, I get that they don't mean anything -- they're talking points -- but still...

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11-13-2012, 11:53 PM
  #56
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Why fret?

As usual, the OFFICIAL HOLLYWOOD TOP 35 is perfect!

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Old
11-14-2012, 03:55 PM
  #57
Archie Jones
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gleanerguy, I'd like to point out that STU had lost their 2 previous games 3-2 to Acadia and 2-0 to Dal before UNB dominated them completely in a 6-1 game that the STU goalie played was fantastic. The next night STU lost 3-2 to Moncton.

That 1 goal win on the road was against UPEI who had beaten Moncton on the road the previous night by the score of 6-3.

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11-14-2012, 05:48 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUS Fan View Post
You could swap positions with STU and Dave would still vote #1.
Hey now, don't pin that on me. I didn't vote UNB #1 this week.

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:13 PM
  #59
gleanerguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie Jones View Post
gleanerguy, I'd like to point out that STU had lost their 2 previous games 3-2 to Acadia and 2-0 to Dal before UNB dominated them completely in a 6-1 game that the STU goalie played was fantastic. The next night STU lost 3-2 to Moncton.

That 1 goal win on the road was against UPEI who had beaten Moncton on the road the previous night by the score of 6-3.

Duly noted. However, they trailed Acadia 3-0 before scoring two late. Nor was the Moncton game as close as the score would suggest. I don't think any team that is not even first in its conference deserves a vote to be first in the country, whether it be the Atlantic, Western or Ontario conferences..

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Old
11-15-2012, 08:04 AM
  #60
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If Thayer Doyle doesn't screw UNB over in their game vs. SMU, the V-Reds are tied for first place with Acadia. It is not just the final score that dictates how voters vote (well some of them anyways).

In that game against Acadia, UNB gave up three 1st period power play goals to Acadia. Even strength the play might have favoured UNB a bit, but conservatively it was even. Axemen had 8 power plays. UNB had three in the game. Special teams were the obvious difference in the game.

But yes, there are consequences for taking too many penalties, deserved or not, and UNB is proving that this season.

This weekend's UNB-Acadia game should obviously give us a good comparison on these two teams, and will affect the AUS standings and CIS rankings.

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Old
11-15-2012, 12:59 PM
  #61
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Why Alberta is ranked ahead of Saskatchewan?

Alberta outplayed Saskatchewan in both games in Saskatoon...but lost....since then the Bears have out-scored their opponents 39-9 over the last 6 games.
The pollsters recognize that one program is playing on a level that another is not.

By the middle of January it will be blatantly apparent that the Golden Bears and the V-Reds are the top 2 teams in the Country....and for the first time in the last few seasons, Alberta is worthy of being in that discussion with UNB.

Stauffer

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Old
11-15-2012, 01:13 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
If Thayer Doyle doesn't screw UNB over in their game vs. SMU, the V-Reds are tied for first place with Acadia. It is not just the final score that dictates how voters vote (well some of them anyways).

In that game against Acadia, UNB gave up three 1st period power play goals to Acadia. Even strength the play might have favoured UNB a bit, but conservatively it was even. Axemen had 8 power plays. UNB had three in the game. Special teams were the obvious difference in the game.

But yes, there are consequences for taking too many penalties, deserved or not, and UNB is proving that this season.

This weekend's UNB-Acadia game should obviously give us a good comparison on these two teams, and will affect the AUS standings and CIS rankings.
Another case of "Yeah,but..."

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:02 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gleanerguy View Post
Another case of "Yeah,but..."
So if you were a Top 10 voter the only stats that would matter is game scores and standings?

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Old
11-15-2012, 03:16 PM
  #64
gleanerguy
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They're the most concrete and consistent measures for 17 delegates to consider. I'm sure a Saskatchewan based voter, for instance, could point to a turning point or two in their series against Regina -- a hit post, a penalty, a non-call...whatever. There are points in every game where a game turns. You recognize them from a UNB perspective because you follow the team day to day...but for a national voting panel, yes, the most accurate measuring sticks are recent scores, calibre of opponents, and standings.
Not telling you how to vote, don't care that much to be truthful, because, as I've said before, they're just discussion points. I guess it works because we're discussing it here. But I would like to hear the reasoning behind a team which is second in its conference getting a vote as best in the country. I'll have what he's having, bartender...

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:02 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Stauffer View Post
Why Alberta is ranked ahead of Saskatchewan?

Alberta outplayed Saskatchewan in both games in Saskatoon...but lost....since then the Bears have out-scored their opponents 39-9 over the last 6 games.
The pollsters recognize that one program is playing on a level that another is not.

By the middle of January it will be blatantly apparent that the Golden Bears and the V-Reds are the top 2 teams in the Country....and for the first time in the last few seasons, Alberta is worthy of being in that discussion with UNB.

Stauffer
robert UNB is ranked behind Acadia, what about them?? sometimes i am concerned that you might not be the hockey procrastinator i thought you were! there is still three weeks left in the first half, your average bears have pummeled Leth and Mount royal the later 4 times....okay only three. But you have a surprisingly good team in regina next, then UBC and i cant wait to see your guys versus the Sirant's guys in the last week of first half. you are obviously a little excited robert but like others have said record versus top opponents and total wins and losses should be a factor in your vote! 6 games left against some good teams, a whole month off and then a bye for your guys, playoffs are in february, not today. please respect our league it is a good one!!

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:18 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Stauffer View Post
Why Alberta is ranked ahead of Saskatchewan?

Alberta outplayed Saskatchewan in both games in Saskatoon...but lost....since then the Bears have out-scored their opponents 39-9 over the last 6 games.
The pollsters recognize that one program is playing on a level that another is not.

By the middle of January it will be blatantly apparent that the Golden Bears and the V-Reds are the top 2 teams in the Country....and for the first time in the last few seasons, Alberta is worthy of being in that discussion with UNB.

Stauffer
Bob:
While Alberta outplayed Saskatchewan in the first game of their series and probably deserved a better fate, I can not say the Golden Bears outplayed the Dogs in the second game. In fact, they were being outplayed until a string of penalties by the Huskies and back-to-back 5-on-3 power plays for the Bears midway through the second period. Most of their shot advantage was generated in those aforementioned power plays. If not for those power play goals by Alberta, the score in that game was on its way to being lopsided for the host squad.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:46 PM
  #67
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Nov. 20 Top 10

MEN’S HOCKEY
(regular season record) / votes (first-place votes) / (previous rankings)

1. Alberta (11-3-0) / 166 points (15) / (1)
2. UNB (9-3-0) / 144 (1) / (4)
3. Acadia (9-3-0) / 129 / (2)
4. Saskatchewan (9-3-0) / 115 / (3)
5. UQTR (8-3-1) / 101 (1) / (5)
6. Windsor (10-2-0) / 81 / (7)
7. Moncton (7-3-2) / 57 / (6)
8. Western (9-3-0) / 49 / (9)
9. UBC (8-3-1) / 28 / (NR)
10. Toronto (7-3-2) / 14 / (NR) - X

X - Toronto (over Lakehead) was awarded the higher ranking based on number of higher placed votes.

Other teams receiving votes: Lakehead (14), Saint Mary’s (13), Guelph (10), St. Francis Xavier (6), Carleton (4), Calgary (3), Regina (1).

My two cents: Toronto? Really? Ahead of Lakehead, SMU, StFX, Carleton and Calgary? Really? Has the lonesomeness for the Leafs gone this far?

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:12 PM
  #68
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There's a case to be made for Guelph over Toronto too - they've won 7 straight. The person who keeps giving their first place vote to UQTR should be kicked off the committee - it should be about the best team not the team you like best.

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Old
11-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #69
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Toronto showed their strength in my opinion when they played their crossover, losing 3 of 4 against Windsor twice, Guelph, and finally a win against Brock (currently in 9th in the OUA West).

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Old
11-27-2012, 01:07 PM
  #70
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November 27 Top 10

MEN’S HOCKEY
(regular season record) / votes (first-place votes) / (previous rankings)

1. Alberta (13-3-0) / 169 points (16) / (1)
2. UNB (11-3-0) / 152 (1) / (2)
3. Saskatchewan (11-3-0) / 124 / (4)
4. Acadia (10-3-1) / 111 / (3)
5. UQTR (10-3-1) / 102 / (5)
6. Western (11-3-0) / 87 / (8)
7. Windsor (11-3-0) / 73 / (6)
8. Saint Mary’s (9-4-1) / 50 / (NR)
9. Carleton (9-4-1) / 20 / (NR)
10. Manitoba (8-4-2) / 19 / (NR)

Other teams receiving votes: Guelph (8), Moncton (7), St. Francis Xavier (7), Lakehead (4), McGill (1), Ottawa (1).

My 2 cents: No change in the 1-2 spot, other than last week's voter for UQTR has switched to Alberta. Losing to SMU slides Acadia into 4th spot, while SMU is back on the list at 8th. Carleton and Manitoba are also back after good weeks. Western's good week has them up 2. Interesting to see McGill get one #10 vote from someone. That's gotta sting for the reigning national champs.

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Old
11-27-2012, 03:24 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
MENíS HOCKEY
(regular season record) / votes (first-place votes) / (previous rankings)

1. Alberta (13-3-0) / 169 points (16) / (1)
2. UNB (11-3-0) / 152 (1) / (2)
3. Saskatchewan (11-3-0) / 124 / (4)
4. Acadia (10-3-1) / 111 / (3)
5. UQTR (10-3-1) / 102 / (5)
6. Western (11-3-0) / 87 / (8)
7. Windsor (11-3-0) / 73 / (6)
8. Saint Maryís (9-4-1) / 50 / (NR)
9. Carleton (9-4-1) / 20 / (NR)
10. Manitoba (8-4-2) / 19 / (NR)

Other teams receiving votes: Guelph (8), Moncton (7), St. Francis Xavier (7), Lakehead (4), McGill (1), Ottawa (1).

My 2 cents: No change in the 1-2 spot, other than last week's voter for UQTR has switched to Alberta. Losing to SMU slides Acadia into 4th spot, while SMU is back on the list at 8th. Carleton and Manitoba are also back after good weeks. Western's good week has them up 2. Interesting to see McGill get one #10 vote from someone. That's gotta sting for the reigning national champs.
Nothing like a loss to STU at home to send the 7th place team to number 12. Moncton's loss to UNB they could have absorbed and still been ranked but the Friday night loss really killed them.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:25 AM
  #72
FreddtFoyle
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Last Top 10 until after Christmas

MEN’S HOCKEY
(regular season record) / votes (first-place votes) / (previous rankings)

1. Alberta (14-4-0) / 158 points (9) / (1)
2. Acadia (12-3-1) / 147 (4) / (4)
3. Saskatchewan (13-3-0) / 129 (2) / (3)
4. UNB (12-4-0) / 123 / (2)
5. Western (13-3-0) / 102 (1) / (6)
6. UQTR (12-3-1) / 89 / (5)
7. Saint Mary’s (11-4-1) / 69 / (8)
8. Windsor (12-4-0) / 47 / (7)
9. Manitoba (9-4-3) / 40 / (10)
10. Carleton (10-4-2) / 15 / (9)

Other teams receiving votes: St. Francis Xavier (5), McGill (5), Guelph (3), Calgary (1), Moncton (1), Toronto (1).

My two cents: I wonder if that same voter that once gave Toronto a #1 vote has got them 10th this week. Big gap in votes between Bisons in 9th and Ravens in 10th. Not sure if I'd rank Western ahead of the top teams in the AUS and Canada West, but they did upset UNB last time at Nationals. Having a hard time remembering a defending CIS champ doing so poorly in rankings the following season as has been the case with the Redmen.

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12-04-2012, 11:46 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle View Post
MENíS HOCKEY
(regular season record) / votes (first-place votes) / (previous rankings)

1. Alberta (14-4-0) / 158 points (9) / (1)
2. Acadia (12-3-1) / 147 (4) / (4)
3. Saskatchewan (13-3-0) / 129 (2) / (3)
4. UNB (12-4-0) / 123 / (2)
5. Western (13-3-0) / 102 (1) / (6)
6. UQTR (12-3-1) / 89 / (5)
7. Saint Maryís (11-4-1) / 69 / (8)
8. Windsor (12-4-0) / 47 / (7)
9. Manitoba (9-4-3) / 40 / (10)
10. Carleton (10-4-2) / 15 / (9)

Other teams receiving votes: St. Francis Xavier (5), McGill (5), Guelph (3), Calgary (1), Moncton (1), Toronto (1).

My two cents: I wonder if that same voter that once gave Toronto a #1 vote has got them 10th this week. Big gap in votes between Bisons in 9th and Ravens in 10th. Not sure if I'd rank Western ahead of the top teams in the AUS and Canada West, but they did upset UNB last time at Nationals. Having a hard time remembering a defending CIS champ doing so poorly in rankings the following season as has been the case with the Redmen.

Lakehead has had a tough schedual so far, they swept Guelph, split with uqtr, Windsor and western yet they get no votes?? Strange.

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12-04-2012, 05:12 PM
  #74
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Lakehead has had a tough schedual so far, they swept Guelph, split with uqtr, Windsor and western yet they get no votes?? Strange.
You forgot about Carleton as well. We are 6-3-1 vs the #5, 6, 8, 10 and 13 (Guelph) teams.

Here are the records of OUA teams vs teams that received votes in this latest poll:

Lakehead 6-3-1 (Wins: Guelph (2), UQTR, Western, Windsor, Carleton)
McGill 2-3-0 (Wins: Carleton, Toronto)
Carleton 2-1-0 (Wins: Toronto, UQTR)
Guelph 3-2-0 (Wins: Western, Windsor, Toronto)
Toronto 0-4-2 (Wins: none)
Western 2-2-0 (Wins: McGill, Guelph)
Windsor 4-1-0 (Wins: Toronto (2), Guelph, Western)
UQTR 3-1-0 (Wins: McGill (2), Toronto)

I'm not going to debate where Lakehead fits in nationally, but I do agree that we deserve votes based on the other OUA teams that got some. Take out Toronto, who clearly doesnt belong, and all of these teams listed above have even worse records vs teams with votes. We're 6-3-1 vs these teams, without the benefit of padding the record with wins against Toronto.

That being said, this has been quite the competitive season thus far in the OUA. I have no doubt that we can beat any team in the OUA but, at the same time, there are very few teams that I would be comfortable playing in the playoffs. I think that goes for everyone. If you have an off night this season, you're very likely going to lose the game.

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:55 PM
  #75
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It's an interesting case you make and I have to say it is surprising that Lakehead didn't draw at least a few votes. I think there's two reasons why Lakehead didn't get any votes:

1. Since opening the season with 2 wins over Guelph (after splitting each of their two pre-season series), they are a .500 team (I recognize there is 1 OT and 1 SO loss in there). Hard to consider any team in any conference in the top 10 with that record, regardless of schedule. All of the OUA teams receiving votes (except Toronto) have put together long winning streaks this year (Western 11 in a row, Windsor 9, Guelph 7, Carleton 6, McGill 5 and now 4, UQTR 5). So the win one. lose one pattern hurts Lakehead.

2. The "what have you done for me lately" factor. Lakehead didn't play last week and there seems to be some on the voting committee that put undue weight on a team's results from the prior week. If they don't see Lakehead's name in the results and they are not high in the standings, they aren't top of mind. Just speculating, of course, but it wouldn't surprise me.

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