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NHL Lockout Thread XI: Believe with Steve!

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:39 AM
  #376
Moe Mantha
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Originally Posted by rabi View Post
thank you for this!

So to prove again that TSN isn't necessarily going to be the people to break this story...


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12-04-2012, 10:41 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
Sorry if this has been beaten to death, but I'm at work and haven't been able to read the whole thread. Has Burton's report been shot down? Or do we still think it could be true?
People are just saying their sources are telling them otherwise. Not that it's false, but no other confirmed reports yet.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
So, just to be clear, I'm not saying the Boston report is untrue or not accurate. I'm saying I can't get info to support it. That's all.

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12-04-2012, 10:46 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
There have been several of us asking this question repeatedly and we have never gotten a reasonable response.
The NHLPA will not accept any contract limits nor changes to UFA eligibility etc and I suspect the NHL will not negotiate those points at all (or very little).

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12-04-2012, 10:51 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
The NHLPA will not accept any contract limits nor changes to UFA eligibility etc and I suspect the NHL will not negotiate those points at all (or very little).
if you think the nhl is going to die on the ufa hill you are greatly mistaken.

they might die on the contract limit hill, but that is the only thing i believe.

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12-04-2012, 10:52 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
The NHLPA will not accept any contract limits nor changes to UFA eligibility etc and I suspect the NHL will not negotiate those points at all (or very little).

I am sure that the NHL is playing hardball with the contracting rights just for show. They will cave on the contracting rights and the players wont feel totally screwed over..

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12-04-2012, 10:58 AM
  #381
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I am sure that the NHL is playing hardball with the contracting rights just for show. They will cave on the contracting rights and the players wont feel totally screwed over..
i feel like we have all been saying this for months...and the nhl has even said this. the PA is just too stupid to do anything.

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12-04-2012, 10:59 AM
  #382
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I am sure that the NHL is playing hardball with the contracting rights just for show. They will cave on the contracting rights and the players wont feel totally screwed over..
Agreed, they'll shoot for a 5-10% variance between years and that's all. But will the PA accept the linked cap is the question.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:00 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
i feel like we have all been saying this for months...and the nhl has even said this. the PA is just too stupid to do anything.
The fact that even -I- can tell the NHL seems to be telegraphing this at every available opportunity is frustrating.

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12-04-2012, 11:08 AM
  #384
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There comes a point in every negotiation where the end has to justify the means, and that goes for both sides. I don't see any way that a cancelled season will justify what either side is "fighting" for. The NHL will feel the hurt from fan backlash. The NHLPA will lose millions in salaries that they will never get back... and for what? Both sides will ask themselves "was it worth it?" and the answer will be no.

All the more reason to get a deal done and get one done quick.

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12-04-2012, 11:10 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
There comes a point in every negotiation where the end has to justify the means, and that goes for both sides. I don't see any way that a cancelled season will justify what either side is "fighting" for. The NHL will feel the hurt from fan backlash. The NHLPA will lose millions in salaries that they will never get back... and for what? Both sides will ask themselves "was it worth it?" and the answer will be no.

All the more reason to get a deal done and get one done quick.
That point was passed the minute regular season games started getting cancelled. Canceling the season would only multiply the hurt each side is going to feel.

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12-04-2012, 11:12 AM
  #386
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Did anyone see Dreger's last tweet about Campbell and Murphy on their way to NYC? Why would they need to be at the board of govenors meeting? He also said something about there not being a need for anything involving hockey ops people, or would there be?

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12-04-2012, 11:14 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Mattiboy13 View Post
Did anyone see Dreger's last tweet about Campbell and Murphy on their way to NYC? Why would they need to be at the board of govenors meeting? He also said something about there not being a need for anything involving hockey ops people, or would there be?
Weren't they also discussing player safety issues today?

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12-04-2012, 11:15 AM
  #388
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Weren't they also discussing player safety issues today?
It said they were planning on being at the meeting tomorrow, nothing about being there today.

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12-04-2012, 11:18 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
So I was thinking about the NHL's mid October offer. That first "50/50" offer with the 211m in "Make Whole", the increased team to team revenue sharing, the reduced ELC term, the delayed UFA eligibility, the arbitration restrictions, the five percent annual individual contract compensation variance limit, and the five year term limit. That deal would've seen an 82 game season and seriously limited negative impact on HRR due to fan backlash over cancelled games.

If the NHLPA walked right into that mid October meeting and agreed to the deal immediately, sight unseen, and outright accepted all terms, would they not be better off than they are now? How can losing an entire season not be more detrimental to every single member of that union than simply accepting thatp mid October offer? Obviously they could've bargained off the framework of that offer and made it slightly more tolerable in time to preserve 82 games. Maybe preserve ELC and UFA policies and get a little extra bump in Make Whole. Call it good and play the full 82.

How can than not be better for the earnings of every single union member than cancelling and entire season?
Not hapening. 5 year contract limit is a huge sticking point. I donīt think you really thought through your post. Basically you are saying take it or leave it and its not happening.

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12-04-2012, 11:20 AM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
There comes a point in every negotiation where the end has to justify the means, and that goes for both sides. I don't see any way that a cancelled season will justify what either side is "fighting" for. The NHL will feel the hurt from fan backlash. The NHLPA will lose millions in salaries that they will never get back... and for what? Both sides will ask themselves "was it worth it?" and the answer will be no.

All the more reason to get a deal done and get one done quick.
Both sides should already be answering no. This is a ludicrous lockout thus far.

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12-04-2012, 11:23 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Not hapening. 5 year contract limit is a huge sticking point. I donīt think you really thought through your post. Basically you are saying take it or leave it and its not happening.
So you are saying that 90% of the PA should hold out for a year because of a contract limit that will never affect them?

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:24 AM
  #392
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Not hapening. 5 year contract limit is a huge sticking point. I donīt think you really thought through your post. Basically you are saying take it or leave it and its not happening.
huge sticking point for who? less then 5% of the nhlpa? who all have longer contracts that no matter what will run to the end of there careers lol.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:25 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
You can't be serious.

Locking up young star players for as long as possible right before you knew that those contracts would become illegal is an incredibly smart move.

And how many times do I have to say that the contract rules are for the GMs, not the players before people get it? These rules are to protect GMs from other GMs by closing cap circumventing loopholes. Thy have nothing to do with the players.
Smart? Its hypocritical. One minute its the NHL needs changes in contract systems issues and then some teams rush to re-sign their own players. Bill Daly was on the FAN590 in late September. Even he admitted the "optics weren't good" regarding teams rushing to get their players signed under the then current system when ownership was proposing major changes.

You don't see a problem with that?

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:25 AM
  #394
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Transcript for the upcoming meeting:

Steve Fehr: "Ya' feelin' allright?"
Bill Daly: "I'm not feelin' too good myself"
Steve Fehr: "Well, Ya' feelin' allright?"
Bill Daly: "I'm not feelin' too good myself"

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:28 AM
  #395
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If you want a better system, contracts need to be limited to at least 7 yrs. UFA should go up by 1 yr (8 yrs, or 28). Term limit would be non-negotiable for me. All the arguments against term limits havent answered the downsides issues. On UFA, ask for 5 get 7. The UFA adjustment is more to help weaker teams. These pts arent so much about money but about the product on the ice. I cant see an actual vote against term limits as it affects a huge minority only.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:30 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Smart? Its hypocritical. One minute its the NHL needs changes in contract systems issues and then some teams rush to re-sign their own players. Bill Daly was on the FAN590 in late September. Even he admitted the "optics weren't good" regarding teams rushing to get their players signed under the then current system when ownership was proposing major changes.

You don't see a problem with that?
you don't honestly see how it was smart for GM's, and even the owners to lock up there superstars long term while they still could.

if you can get (lets use seguin), for 7 years now with the current cba. while you might next year get him for only 5 years. you would not take that opportunity to do so? if you say no, you would be the worst GM in the history of the nhl.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:31 AM
  #397
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Well NHL, you sure took us for one big ride.
And even now I sit and wonder why
And when I think of you I start to question to decertify
I just can't waste my time I must keep dry
Gotta' stop believing in all your CBA lies
'Cause there's not too much to do before I decertify

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:42 AM
  #398
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UGH!

The 18 players present in New York today are: Craig Adams, David Backes, Michael Cammalleri, Sidney Crosby, B.J. Crombeen, Mathieu Darche, Shane Doan, Ron Hainsey, Shawn Horcoff, Jamal Mayers, Manny Malhotra, Andy McDonald, Ryan Miller, George Parros, Brad Richards, Martin St. Louis, Jonathan Toews and Kevin Westgarth.

The Player/Owner meeting is scheduled to take place at 2:00 PM ET at the Westin New York at Times Square.

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12-04-2012, 11:45 AM
  #399
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UGH!

The 18 players present in New York today are: Craig Adams, David Backes, Michael Cammalleri, Sidney Crosby, B.J. Crombeen, Mathieu Darche, Shane Doan, Ron Hainsey, Shawn Horcoff, Jamal Mayers, Manny Malhotra, Andy McDonald, Ryan Miller, George Parros, Brad Richards, Martin St. Louis, Jonathan Toews and Kevin Westgarth.

The Player/Owner meeting is scheduled to take place at 2:00 PM ET at the Westin New York at Times Square.
I find the ratios of forwards: defenders/tenders quite interesting.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:47 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Smart? Its hypocritical. One minute its the NHL needs changes in contract systems issues and then some teams rush to re-sign their own players. Bill Daly was on the FAN590 in late September. Even he admitted the "optics weren't good" regarding teams rushing to get their players signed under the then current system when ownership was proposing major changes.

You don't see a problem with that?
Of course it looks bad. The players also didn't help anything by being passive vessels through which error collects and flows. The players knew the CBA was expiring. They're getting all these long deals for a ton of money. There had to be a catch. Take a stand when crazy money is being offered, that would mean something.

Why these players continued to sign contracts with a league and ownership that they seem to dislike, I'll never know. Oh yeah, all that money. Principle schminciple, until they try and give you less money. That's sort of a principle.

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