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News from Around the League - Part XXXV - I'll see you in court!

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Old
12-03-2012, 11:16 PM
  #151
Sir Fenwick Corsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
THe longer this goes the less the owners will give players in make whole (As the more games lost = More $$$ lost)
Well obviously the players don't get paid if they don't play, but considering how much they have already lost, is there no benefit to try and dig into the owners as much as possible at this point? Most people feel that the players are the ones that are the big losers but I don't buy that the owners can just sit there and brush this off. This is not good for business and there will definitely be a fallout when these dicks return. The owners have got to be feeling some pain here as well.

I don't know. You have the high profile player's interest at the forefront for the NHLPA. I know damn well that the lesser players want this crap to be over. But just from everything that has gone on, it doesn't seem like this 'union' is all that concerned with losing money at much as you would think.

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12-03-2012, 11:25 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by nona weisbaum View Post
What I want to know is what incentive is there to get a deal done right now? It's getting close, but they're not at the drop dead point yet. To have gone through all of this ******** only to quit right before the finish line? It doesn't make any sense. It's not about winning for either of these sides as much as it is to break the opposition. With how vindictive the relationship is between the owners and players, I just won't put anything past them.

If there are any game to be played this year, my guess is that it will be the absolute least possible amount, like 45 or around that #. The 95 lockout ended on January 11th so that's a good indication of just how long they can drag the nonsense out. And with how much they have already lost, why not go for the jugular and really tighten the screws now?
The incentive for settling it now (for the league anyway) is to get buzz and sell stuff before the holidays. And perhaps to avoid the 'decertification/disclaimer of interest' that prodded the union and league to deal in other sports. It makes too much sense not to settle it now, then again it made too much sense not to have the lockout in the first place after a year where the NHL had the most buzz it's had since 1994...and again a lockout derailed that.

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12-03-2012, 11:27 PM
  #153
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No one benefits from a lockout this long, but it certainly hurts the players more. It's a losing battle although I understand why they're upset. They're being cheated, but in reality there's not much they can do about it and they're not helping their case by being extremely stubborn.

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12-03-2012, 11:35 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
The incentive for settling it now (for the league anyway) is to get buzz and sell stuff before the holidays. And perhaps to avoid the 'decertification/disclaimer of interest' that prodded the union and league to deal in other sports. It makes too much sense not to settle it now, then again it made too much sense not to have the lockout in the first place after a year where the NHL had the most buzz it's had since 1994...and again a lockout derailed that.
I don't know. I just don't think either side truly gives a **** to be honest. If they had any damn brains they would have never missed a a single game this year. Each side is always going to have their beef with certain things, I get that. But this lockout was so unnecessary. But for whatever reason, they simply don't fear alienating the fans and derailing anything good that may be be going on with the league, with these labor disputes. It's crazy. This **** is so damaging to their product and they just continue to go to the lockout well every damn time the CBA is up.

Holy ****. I am just beyond frustrated with this league. I just don't even know where to start anymore. This isn't right, that's all I can say for sure. And I'm finding myself getting even more pissed that it's reaching that break point. I'm honestly not happy that there is a chance they'll come back. Then what was this all for? It's just going to get brushed under the rug like everything else and its infuriating from a fan's standpoint. We just sit here and take it. No voice at all.

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12-03-2012, 11:52 PM
  #155
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Can anyone explain how it's legal to not pay a player under lockout conditions? I'm just a tad confused as to how a signed contract isn't filled due to owners refusing to open their doors. Pardon the ignorance.

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12-03-2012, 11:56 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nona weisbaum View Post
I don't know. I just don't think either side truly gives a **** to be honest. If they had any damn brains they would have never missed a a single game this year. Each side is always going to have their beef with certain things, I get that. But this lockout was so unnecessary. But for whatever reason, they simply don't fear alienating the fans and derailing anything good that may be be going on with the league, with these labor disputes. It's crazy. This **** is so damaging to their product and they just continue to go to the lockout well every damn time the CBA is up.

Holy ****. I am just beyond frustrated with this league. I just don't even know where to start anymore. This isn't right, that's all I can say for sure. And I'm finding myself getting even more pissed that it's reaching that break point. I'm honestly not happy that there is a chance they'll come back. Then what was this all for? It's just going to get brushed under the rug like everything else and its infuriating from a fan's standpoint. We just sit here and take it. No voice at all.
The NHLPA refused to open discussions when NHL was asking them all the way back in January

There is no other option for NHL but to lockout when CBA expires (As 92 NHLPA strike and 94 MLB strike show you cant play without a CBA)

The NHLPA has so far been the party unwilling to end this

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12-04-2012, 12:14 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggy Spandex View Post
Can anyone explain how it's legal to not pay a player under lockout conditions? I'm just a tad confused as to how a signed contract isn't filled due to owners refusing to open their doors. Pardon the ignorance.
Contracts are only enforceable under a CBA.

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12-04-2012, 12:15 AM
  #158
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Contracts are only enforceable under a CBA.
Gotcha. What a mess.

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12-04-2012, 12:33 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
The NHLPA refused to open discussions when NHL was asking them all the way back in January

There is no other option for NHL but to lockout when CBA expires (As 92 NHLPA strike and 94 MLB strike show you cant play without a CBA)

The NHLPA has so far been the party unwilling to end this
I know about the documented 'non talks' at the start of the year, but like with anything involving these two sides, we'll never really know what goes on behind closed doors. I find it pretty hard to believe that no talks of any kind ever took place over this last year. Not with such a huge undertaking such as a new CBA looming in the distance.

And as far as the players not willing to end this, one thing I can say for sure is that the NHL did itself no favors with the PA, with that 'first' offer they made to them at the start of this fiasco. Never mind the art of negotiation, the original offer from the NHL was stupid harsh and just set the tone for these last several weeks. There was no reason for it. And it was even more of a kicker when you have the two bozo hardliners in Boston and Minnesota signing last minute deals that they clearly had no intention of paying in full (granted it takes two to tango and the signing bonus' were not lost on the players for sure) . Point here is that there seems to be this feeling amongst both groups that this was going to be a quick lockout and yet here we are in December with no games scheduled in sight. There has got to be more at work here than just the NHLPA looking to stall things and drag this out.

I refuse to take sides in this. I firmly believe that both sides are of equal blame here and they're both guilty of taking a giant **** on the sport, the league / arena employees and the fans. At some point, BOTH SIDES have to realize that these lockouts are severely damaging the game and ruining any little credibility that this league may still have. This can't continue to keep happening no matter which side is right, stalling or whatnot. They have to work together. They both fail miserably in that regard imho.


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12-04-2012, 12:43 AM
  #160
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I want there to be a season. I really do. Though it should have never gotten to this point.

Also for the love of god when the next CBA does expire, for ****s sake let it be June 15th or something, and not SEPTEMBER 15th the week before camps open up. This is when it's expired the last two times, and the lockout in 94 began first week of October too.

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12-04-2012, 12:57 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nona weisbaum View Post
I know about the documented 'non talks' at the start of the year, but like with anything involving these two sides, we'll never really know what goes on behind closed doors. I find it pretty hard to believe that no talks of any kind ever took place over this last year. Not with such a huge undertaking such as a new CBA looming in the distance.

And as far as the players not willing to end this, one thing I can say for sure is that the NHL did itself no favors with the PA, with that 'first' offer they made to them at the start of this fiasco. Never mind the art of negotiation, the original offer from the NHL was stupid harsh and just set the tone for these last several weeks. There was no reason for it. And it was even more of a kicker when you have the two bozo hardliners in Boston and Minnesota signing last minute deals that they clearly had no intention of paying in full (granted it takes two to tango and the signing bonus' were not lost on the players for sure) . Point here is that there seems to be this feeling amongst both groups that this was going to be a quick lockout and yet here we are in December with no games scheduled in sight. There has got to be more at work here than just the NHLPA looking to stall things and drag this out.

I refuse to take sides in this. I firmly believe that both sides are of equal blame here and they're both guilty of taking a giant **** on the sport, the league / arena employees and the fans. At some point, BOTH SIDES have to realize that these lockouts are severely damaging the game and ruining any little credibility that this league may still have. This can't continue to keep happening no matter which side is right, stalling or whatnot. They have to work together. They both fail miserably in that regard imho.
NHLPA rebuffed league thru season ,, Saying wait til after playoffs (They have not denied this ,, So there is no dispute on this being true)

They didn't even put together there negoitating committee until end of June

As for the 1st offer ,, Its common practice in business.. Why do people not understand that?

NHL put out 43% , etc to get to middle

If they put 50% as there original offer the NHLPA would refuse to meet them at it ,, They would demand 54%

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12-04-2012, 02:50 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
Aaron Portzline ‏@Aportzline
Told handful of NHL clubs ready to sign LW Petr Straka when lockout ends. Straka having a breakout season in QMJHL: 21-17-38, +14, in 24 gms
Interesting, Columbus drafted him in 2010 in the late 2nd round but decided not to offer him the required three year ELC. Straka then went undrafted in 2012.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7323
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=20273

Bob McKenzie had him #38 on his survey right before the 2010 Draft. Central Scouting had him #23. Straka had a strong showing in the playoffs last year, but apparently it wasn't enough to earn a contract offer from Columbus.

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12-04-2012, 05:39 AM
  #163
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Columbus is a clown show when it comes to prospects, and we all know it. I'm surprised everybody passed on him in 2012 though.

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12-04-2012, 06:16 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
The NHLPA refused to open discussions when NHL was asking them all the way back in January

There is no other option for NHL but to lockout when CBA expires (As 92 NHLPA strike and 94 MLB strike show you cant play without a CBA)

The NHLPA has so far been the party unwilling to end this
Given the NHL's first offer and the lack of progress throughout would it really have mattered anyway if they met over the summer? They knew the NHL would just try to lowball them anyway and they did. I do think the players making a CBA issue out of realignment didn't help the mistrust and negative feelings though, there was no need for that.

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12-04-2012, 07:54 AM
  #165
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I think it's more along the lines of the NHLPA stalling this situation to its current condition. I don't think Fehr came out of retirement to help get this thing solved amiably. Nothing he has done has been productive to finding a CBA for this year.

Instead of crying about a lowball offer, perhaps offer a highball offer. Instead of letting the 82game schedule come and pass, make a real offer to save the season. Literally do something instead of putting an offer on a napkin and not checking the numbers would suffice. The most frustrating thing for me is that Fehr does not seem interested in saving this season and continues stalling and posturing.

How does a league, who is trying to get the floor down, going to accept a proposal where you want the floor to be linked from a % and go higher than before and cause a 24 million gap from ceiling to floor? Add in the guaranteed share clause and no wonder the league said get lost.

I really do hate Bettman and Daly and the league's ownership in general, but Fehr has taken the league hostage for no endgame.

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12-04-2012, 08:52 AM
  #166
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Martin St-Louis and Mike Cammalleri are also in NY today.

So it took what? Three months for them to realize that they need some smart guys in the room? Bravo.

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12-04-2012, 11:19 AM
  #167
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Allan Walsh ‏@walsha
This GM used Lamoriello as example. Look what NHL did to Lou and NJ after Kovalchuk signing. Arbitration, huge fine, loss of draft picks. Last CBA negotiation in 04-05, Lamoriello was constantly involved in negotiations. Where is he now?
Everywhere

This retard doesn't even realise that he probably had enough of this circus last time round.

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12-04-2012, 11:29 AM
  #168
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Ya that gongshow was total crap and handled poorly if you ask me. I can support the first Kovy deal getting denied, but putting a distinct line in the sand was a bad idea. Trying to punish team in the past in this CBA is stupid if you ask me.

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12-04-2012, 12:01 PM
  #169
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Nothing wrong with creating a hard line. But punishing a team for exposing your own mistake and taking advantage of it is just silly.

Sign of a mental weakness/superiority complex.

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12-04-2012, 12:04 PM
  #170
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No Bruin players in the meeting. Colour me shocked.

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12-04-2012, 12:52 PM
  #171
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So this Steve Burton guy is a fraud?! WTF!

No but seriously I never bought it anyway. Either the guy made it up to sound credible, or was fed disinformation.

Hey look though dumbass Eklund's optimism meter went up though! It was this high a couple days ago before dropping yesterday LOL!

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12-04-2012, 12:57 PM
  #172
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Columbus is a clown show when it comes to prospects, and we all know it. I'm surprised everybody passed on him in 2012 though.
In their defense, Straka didn't do a whole lot in the two seasons after the draft. He turned it on during the playoffs but I guess it wasn't enough.

Their 2010 Draft isn't looking so hot:

#34: Dalton Smith - Energy line forward who had 21 goals in 62 games during his draft year. Smith's goal production would go down in both years after the draft. Columbus passed up Smith's teammate Tyler Toffoli who was known to be a sniper with some skating issues. Toffoli led the OHL in goals last year.

#55: Petr Straka - Seemingly plateaued, didn't earn a contract.

#94: Brandon Archibald - American D with nice size who put up 33 points during his draft year. I believe he got some consideration for the US WJC team at some point, but his numbers regressed and he went unsigned.

#102: Mathieu Corbiel-Theriault - Huge 6'6 goalie. Off the top of my head, I think Red Line Report rated him as a late first rounder on their list. From limited viewings, he was big but not particularly fluid. He won a Memorial Cup in 2011 but apparently didn't show enough to earn a contract.

Although to be fair, I really liked the Archibald and Corbeil picks at the time. But I really didn't like the Smith pick with Toffoli, Faulk, and Merrill still on board.

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12-04-2012, 01:00 PM
  #173
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Players attending:

Craig Adams
David Backes
Michael Cammalleri
Sidney Crosby
B.J. Crombeen
Mathieu Darche
Shane Doan
Ron Hainsey
Shawn Horcoff
Jamal Mayers
Manny Malhotra
Andy McDonald
Ryan Miller
George Parros
Brad Richards
Martin St. Louis
Jonathan Toews
Kevin Westgarth.

If I didn't miss anyone, that's 7 players who will have to go face to face with their owners today.
No players from Toronto or Boston, though.

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12-04-2012, 01:42 PM
  #174
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So the owners attending. Are these the ones on Jacobs side? Or not necessarily?

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12-04-2012, 02:03 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
Players attending:

Craig Adams
David Backes
Michael Cammalleri
Sidney Crosby
B.J. Crombeen
Mathieu Darche
Shane Doan
Ron Hainsey
Shawn Horcoff
Jamal Mayers
Manny Malhotra
Andy McDonald
Ryan Miller
George Parros
Brad Richards
Martin St. Louis
Jonathan Toews
Kevin Westgarth.

If I didn't miss anyone, that's 7 players who will have to go face to face with their owners today.
No players from Toronto or Boston, though.
Lupul

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