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Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

team with the best D prospect.

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:44 AM
  #151
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Why arent you *****ing at the Scandellas, Ellis', Josis, ,etc. etc. etc. in this thread? Why are people singling out Leaf fans for including Gardiner?
Because the others adhere to HF's prospect criteria of not having played 65 NHL games/clearly "arrived" as NHL players, except for Scandella, who to be honest I had no idea played 83 games.

Plus Gardiner was the most obvious non-prospect of the bunch, and his champions were the most vocal. How's that?

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12-04-2012, 09:36 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Because the others adhere to HF's prospect criteria of not having played 65 NHL games/clearly "arrived" as NHL players, except for Scandella, who to be honest I had no idea played 83 games.

Plus Gardiner was the most obvious non-prospect of the bunch, and his champions were the most vocal. How's that?
So the seperation of 10-20 games allows one to be include and one not to be? Not to mention i can probably find more examples of players who do not fit the HF criteria who were still included.

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:28 PM
  #153
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Prospect status is stupid in a thread like this people

Who cares if Pittsburgh has the best core of D prospects, its not like that guarantees them anything

Anyone who would rather have Pittsburgh's D prospects over a team like St. Louis' D core is fooling themselves

I don't care if Harrington, Despres, Dumoulin, Maata, etc. were the best prospects in the world - they are not worth more than YOUNG Ds already producing at the NHL level

That's why this thread is horribly flawed - limiting a guy from being included just because he's played over 65 games is moronic - it doesn't give you the full story, it doesn't tell you which team will have the best future D core all it tells you is which team has the best D prospects not in the NHL yet - but my question to all of you is why does that even matter? Which team will have the best d-core in 3-5 years is a much better and more logical question

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:30 PM
  #154
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Because some people are curious which teams will be adding the most impressive young defenders to their NHL club in the near-future, bolstering whatever blue line that they already have established?

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12-04-2012, 02:36 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Because some people are curious which teams will be adding the most impressive young defenders to their NHL club in the near-future, bolstering whatever blue line that they already have established?
I get that but young guys who have less than or 1 NHL season under their belt should be included or else its not really an even playing field

I fully understand people wanting to know which are the next solid D prospects coming up but people are attacking people here like its blasphemy to mention a guy with 60 NHL games experience

All I'm saying is that people should just choose their words more carefully in this thread - this isn't really any indication as to which team will have the best d-core in a few seasons since young stud d-men in the NHL aren't be included

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:41 PM
  #156
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You're overreacting as much as some of those people are.

Why should Gardiner be a part of a prospects discussion AND a young blueliners discussion? He's clearly graduated to the NHL on a regular basis and is no longer someone that should be watched out for to improve a team's already established blue line.

It's not exactly rocket science, if a guy will be on a team's starting roster when the season resumes assuming a healthy lineup then they are already on their way to being a fulltime NHLer. Ellis, Josi, et al will only be prospects for a little while longer. Just like OEL was for a little bit last season.

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12-04-2012, 03:08 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
You're overreacting as much as some of those people are.

Why should Gardiner be a part of a prospects discussion AND a young blueliners discussion? He's clearly graduated to the NHL on a regular basis and is no longer someone that should be watched out for to improve a team's already established blue line.

It's not exactly rocket science, if a guy will be on a team's starting roster when the season resumes assuming a healthy lineup then they are already on their way to being a fulltime NHLer. Ellis, Josi, et al will only be prospects for a little while longer. Just like OEL was for a little bit last season.
I'm talking to the people in this thread who have been using this as the be all end all of how good a team's future d-core will be when it clearly won't be

I realize the purpose of this thread and I'm not overreacting all I'm saying is just because Pittsburgh has some solid prospects doesn't mean they will even have a top 5 d-core in the league in a few years let alone the absolute best D core

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:47 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
I realize the purpose of this thread and I'm not overreacting all I'm saying is just because Pittsburgh has some solid prospects doesn't mean they will even have a top 5 d-core in the league in a few years let alone the absolute best D core
I don't understand. Do you not like Pittsburgh or do you not like talking about prospects?

No one is saying the Pens are guaranteed to have "the absolute best D core" because they possess the current best group of defensive prospects just that their cupboard looks pretty good moving forward.

I'll just end it with this...I'm sure your favorite team has good prospects too.

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Old
12-04-2012, 05:33 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
So the seperation of 10-20 games allows one to be include and one not to be? Not to mention i can probably find more examples of players who do not fit the HF criteria who were still included.
I don't get why you're picking on him over that. Realistically, almost nobody considers Gardiner a prospect.

And for what it's worth, why argue if he's a prospect? I'd rather have the worst d prospects, but the best group of young "graduated" dmen, cause at least it shows they can make it. Generally a prospect tag is thrown on someone who hasn't proven they can stick yet.

You should be happy you have such a bright young d core with a mix of proven and prospect players.

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12-04-2012, 06:08 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
So the seperation of 10-20 games allows one to be include and one not to be? Not to mention i can probably find more examples of players who do not fit the HF criteria who were still included.
Uh, yes? Gotta draw the line somewhere. That's where the line has been drawn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Prospect status is stupid in a thread like this people

Who cares if Pittsburgh has the best core of D prospects, its not like that guarantees them anything

Anyone who would rather have Pittsburgh's D prospects over a team like St. Louis' D core is fooling themselves

I don't care if Harrington, Despres, Dumoulin, Maata, etc. were the best prospects in the world - they are not worth more than YOUNG Ds already producing at the NHL level

That's why this thread is horribly flawed - limiting a guy from being included just because he's played over 65 games is moronic - it doesn't give you the full story, it doesn't tell you which team will have the best future D core all it tells you is which team has the best D prospects not in the NHL yet - but my question to all of you is why does that even matter? Which team will have the best d-core in 3-5 years is a much better and more logical question
Translation:

"I don't like that the well-established, clearly outlined prospect criteria eliminates one of my team's good young players, so this thread is dumb."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
I get that but young guys who have less than or 1 NHL season under their belt should be included or else its not really an even playing field
Why not 2 years? Or 3? Or have it based purely on age?

Oh right, because you just want to include Gardiner.

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:18 PM
  #161
Smallz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Uh, yes? Gotta draw the line somewhere. That's where the line has been drawn.



Translation:

"I don't like that the well-established, clearly outlined prospect criteria eliminates one of my team's good young players, so this thread is dumb."



Why not 2 years? Or 3? Or have it based purely on age?

Oh right, because you just want to include Gardiner.

Yeah not even remotely close to the point I was making but I'll give you an E for effort

If it was up to me I'd include Doughty and Pietrangelo and any defenseman under the age of 25 who looks to have a bright future in the NHL

I think using a teams young NHL defenseman + their young prospects shows a much more accurate picture than just prospects

I realize this is the prospect board but if the question is "who has the best group of young defenseman" the answer is not Pittsburgh (and no *******s I'm not saying its the Leafs either)

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:42 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Yeah not even remotely close to the point I was making but I'll give you an E for effort

If it was up to me I'd include Doughty and Pietrangelo and any defenseman under the age of 25 who looks to have a bright future in the NHL

I think using a teams young NHL defenseman + their young prospects shows a much more accurate picture than just prospects

I realize this is the prospect board but if the question is "who has the best group of young defenseman" the answer is not Pittsburgh (and no *******s I'm not saying its the Leafs either)
But it is not. The thread is titled "team with the best prospects". Is this not a hard concept? Make a new thread to your specifications if you want to make stuff up.

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:53 PM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
Yeah not even remotely close to the point I was making but I'll give you an E for effort

If it was up to me I'd include Doughty and Pietrangelo and any defenseman under the age of 25 who looks to have a bright future in the NHL

I think using a teams young NHL defenseman + their young prospects shows a much more accurate picture than just prospects

I realize this is the prospect board but if the question is "who has the best group of young defenseman" the answer is not Pittsburgh (and no *******s I'm not saying its the Leafs either)
But that's not the question - the title of the thread is instructive here.

If you want a thread about the best group of young defensemen, perhaps you should start one rather than trying to change the criteria of this one.

EDIT: Haha, looks like this is not an idea unique to me.

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:59 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
But it is not. The thread is titled "team with the best prospects". Is this not a hard concept? Make a new thread to your specifications if you want to make stuff up.
Agreed. I wanted to bash my head against a wall reading those posts. Nobody at any point in this thread said that Pittsburgh will have the best defense in the league at any point in the future. It's a prospect evaluation thread. What's really funny is this is the PROSPECTS board.

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Old
12-05-2012, 03:35 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallz View Post
I'm talking to the people in this thread who have been using this as the be all end all of how good a team's future d-core will be when it clearly won't be
I think anybody who is taking this topic that seriously probably isn't worth the time. Obviously the definition of a prospect involves and arbitrary drawing of the line. If you use HF criteria, that includes Josi but not Faulk. If you use Calder eligibility, then somebody like Kyle Palmieri isn't a prospect either. Everybody should accept that limitation before bothering with such a discussion.

That's why these kinds of topics are pointless fodder and are kind of more suited to the Polls board than here. In the unlikely event an interesting discussion emerges, it will be swallowed up by homerism-laden bickering.

Quote:
under the age of 25 who looks to have a bright future in the NHL
Still, you're drawing an arbitrary line which will exclude some players. By next week, that would exclude Jeff Petry, for example, while including somebody like Jamie McBain.


Last edited by Hossa: 12-05-2012 at 03:42 AM.
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Old
03-29-2013, 03:53 PM
  #166
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Now that Detroit added Danny DeKeyser and Pittsburgh lost Morrow I'd say Detroit now. Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, DeKeyser, Lashoff, Backman, Marchenko, Almqvist

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03-29-2013, 04:18 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
Now that Detroit added Danny DeKeyser and Pittsburgh lost Morrow I'd say Detroit now. Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, DeKeyser, Lashoff, Backman, Marchenko, Almqvist
Despres, Harrington, Määttä, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Samuelsson, Bortuzzo etc still look little better to me.

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Old
03-29-2013, 04:23 PM
  #168
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Not saying the Habs have best group but they have a good one

Tinordi, Beaulieu, Dietz, Thrower, Nygren, Ellis, Pateryn, Bennett

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03-29-2013, 04:24 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Despres, Harrington, Määttä, Pouliot, Dumoulin, Samuelsson, Bortuzzo etc still look little better to me.
Dunno. Hard to tell with the lesser guys that you don't hear as much about. Smith vs. Despres is interesting. Sproul is considered better than Harrington, I believe.

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Old
03-30-2013, 02:57 AM
  #170
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The Wings are hands down the best and I don't think Pit is evn top 5

Brendan Smith
Ryan Sproul
Xavier Ouellet
Dan Dekeyser
Mattias Backman
Alexei Marchenko
Nick Jensen
Adam Almqvist

Just ridiculous

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:03 AM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sully61 View Post
Now that Detroit added Danny DeKeyser and Pittsburgh lost Morrow I'd say Detroit now. Smith, Ouellet, Sproul, DeKeyser, Lashoff, Backman, Marchenko, Almqvist
Backman's continued development should eventually clinch this title for the time being.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:21 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Timeghoul View Post
The Wings are hands down the best and I don't think Pit is evn top 5

Brendan Smith
Ryan Sproul
Xavier Ouellet
Dan Dekeyser
Mattias Backman
Alexei Marchenko
Nick Jensen
Adam Almqvist

Just ridiculous
Lets not get carried away here... Also, I take Pittsburgh's over Detroit's because I think Brendan Smith is severely overrated. Sproul, Ouellet, and DeKeyser will be good, but I don't see any of them becoming top pairing defencemen. Pitt still has Pouliot and Despres who could turn out to be top pairing players, as well as Maata, Harrington, and Dumolin, who are at if not above Sproul/Ouellet/DeKeyser level.

The Oilers probably aren't #1, but they're certainly top 5 and you could make a legitimate argument for them being #1: Schultz, Klefbom, Marincin, Gernat, Musil, Bigos, Teubert, Fedun

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Old
03-30-2013, 12:45 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulemon View Post
Toronto:

Rielly 1-2D
Gardiner 3-4D
Finn 2-4D
Percy 3-4D
Blacker 4-5D
Holzer 5-6D
Granberg 5-6D
etc.
Fixed a bit

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Old
03-30-2013, 01:13 PM
  #174
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Dallas is starting to look pretty solid. Top half at least.

Jamie Oleksiak
Joe Morrow
Brenden Dillon
Patrik Nemeth
Ludvig Bystrom

And then guys already in the NHL like Larsen.

Also have a ton of depth defenders in Vance, Jokipakka, Sinitsyn, Lindell, Klingberg, etc.

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Old
03-30-2013, 01:43 PM
  #175
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Fixed a bit
Ya, lets throw Gardiner under the bus because he hasn't been up to par defensively since being called up :

He is easily capable of being a 1-2D.

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