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Old
12-04-2012, 02:52 AM
  #26
The Zetterberg Era
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Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
ok so as a wings fan what would you be looking for, because that was one of my reasons for doing this thread, to get input from wings fans.
Well not to be mean but as a Wings fan I am not looking to move our Captain (he really is already) really in any circumstance. Especially with what Toronto has to offer.

I think the Wings can consider moving Datsyuk if he won't sign an extension this summer.

In any event I am not real high on most of the Leafs. I like Kulemin quite a bit so since I generally see Kulemin/MacArthur in a lot of threads, I would take Kulemin anytime that is an option.

Phaneuf doesn't do a great deal for me, he has a 6.5 cap hit and isn't really a huge upgrade from Kronwall. He doesn't do things the Detroit way and would be expected to fall in line and wouldn't get a letter over Kronwall, Datsyuk and Filppula if they remain after the proposed trade. I wonder how that would sit with him?

I just think salary wise it is hard to move Zetterberg. The closest I have thought about it is the deals involving Boston where Krejci is coming back and we dump a winger and get a winger upgrade.

There just isn't a whole lot out there I would honestly move him for. It creates a huge hole in the lineup and honestly an even larger one in the dressing room.

Value wise without a cap around the players you are looking at proposing.

Phaneuf
Grabo
Kulemin

But then I am asking too much so rather than insult the process, it is easier just to say this is just not a real great fit. To be honest I might even want a pick but the Wings probably ship one of their bottom six guys too, just saying the Leafs group hasn't led you to the promise land at all. The Wings have a glut of forwards already on the roster they don't need to trade star skill players for quantity or for another heavily offensive d-man, part of the reason a bunch of Wings fans hate Yandle deals around here. This is a different Wings team, what they also need more than anything is a strong stay at home right handed d-man. So they aren't looking to do this kind of trade, they are looking to move some of the bottom six and prospect depth out on the wing for a solid stay at home type.

If they fall flat on their face post Lidstrom which I think is greatly exaggerated but could happen, Zetterberg is still an extremely unlikely guy to be put up for sale. In that scenario they try to regroup around him and dump Franzen and Datsyuk as their huge rebuilding pieces. That would painful to watch but what I think would happen if desperation sets in.


Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 12-04-2012 at 02:57 AM.
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Old
12-04-2012, 03:03 AM
  #27
MastuhNinks
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I agree that the Wings and Leafs are just not good trading partners, especially in this instance. I don't see how the Leafs could give a fair offer for Zetterberg without making bigger holes in the roster.

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:55 AM
  #28
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Yeah, it's possible find a theoretical trade value for Henrik Zetterberg. But in real life, he is untouchable.

He will be the experienced captain and leader who will lead the next Red Wing generation in the future. The kids will look up to him. If Datsyuk leaves, we don't have any other piece there for this transition period. The legacy with Wings, you don't bring it in with any other player.

Red Wings will just never trade him. I can bet about this. You can't buy the legacy and what it matters to Red Wings organization.

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Old
12-04-2012, 07:19 AM
  #29
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I just don't see either Zetterberg or Datsyuk being moved. If it was to happen it would be for an extreme overpayment that would gut the other team. With Datsyuk possibly leaving I'm sure if he was to tell holland or the Ilitch's that he wants to retire a Wing the loyalty they have to their players, they wouldn't move him. I don't see the orginization ever shopping either guy.

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:12 AM
  #30
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I like how people have the idea that Detroit's gonna give up a superstar for a #1 defender.

Even if you don't consider Kronwall a #1 defender, he's close enough that there's not a chance of that happening.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:35 PM
  #31
81Leafs50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
Just wanted to see if this trade works for both sides.

To

Det
Phaneuf
Grabo
macarthur
1st 2014

Toronto
zetterberg
helm
Cap dump

Detroit gets a number 1 dman as well as a very good 2c, and a top 6 winger, and a 1st. Toronto could put zetterberg on a line with lupul and kessel and helm would be an ideal 3c. I think this deal gives each team what they need. What do all of you think
Why are the Leafs getting ***** in this trade? Leafs don't need any of these players.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:37 PM
  #32
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Put down the Xbox controller and walk away.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:39 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Value seems close imo. I wouldn't take the deal though because i don't think highly of Phaneuf's defenseive game at all, Grabovski's a tad overpaid, and tbh with the depth we have at forward, I don't really think we need to strengthen it at the cost of our top end skill.
Good post. I agree with you, while the value is there Detroit isn't itching to shake up their roster this drastically

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:40 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
Your deal and mine in the OP are not even comparable, itès nice to see though that the amount of posts from a user on this site isnt an indication of how much hockey knowledege they have.
They comparably both suck.

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:43 PM
  #35
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Lets also be clear on the matter. Phaneuf is not top 15-20 in the league imo.

Kronwall>Phaneuf.

If you base this trade on Phaneuf being a number one dman... well good thing we already have Kronwall (who also is not a clear #1, but better than Phaneuf).

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:10 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
I think your the one that needs to stop the value is there, wether either team does it or not is another question.
Toronto sends out over $15m in cap, in exchange for a very good contract and a 1C. No.

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:13 PM
  #37
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Wtf. I love Zetterbetg but there is no way the Leafs touch that

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:24 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
Your deal and mine in the OP are not even comparable, itès nice to see though that the amount of posts from a user on this site isnt an indication of how much hockey knowledege they have.
They are somewhat comparable. As for your post theory, its wrong. You seem to be a borderline mentally handicapped 12 year old. But at least you have persistence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
I think your the one that needs to stop the value is there, wether either team does it or not is another question.
Nope. Pretty sure you need to stop.

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lol thank you
Wasn't a compliment, by any means.

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:50 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Phaneuf would be your best defensemen.
You DO know the Wings have Kronwall, right? Right?

Quote:
Neither team does this. Even for a player like Zetterberg, I doubt the Leafs would trade Phaneuf. He leaves too big of a hole on the Leafs roster, I'm not saying Phaneuf is the better player, but I'd rather just roll with Bozak-Grabo with a top pairing of Gunnar-Phaneuf than Zetterberg-Bozak with a top pairing of Gunnar-... Um, Franson? Komisarek? It would not be pretty...
Zetterberg would instantly be the Leafs' best player by a wide margin. Phaneuf isn't even the Leafs' best player now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
Debatable, I give the edge to him on offense, however i think Kronwall's better defensively. Gunnarsson covered Phaneuf a lot last season.
Why would you give the edge to Phaneuf offensively? Kronwall has never played on the #1 PP unit except for a short period at the end of last year. In 2008-09 the second unit (Franzen/Z/Hudler/Kronwall/Samuelsson) could have been argued as a "second" #1 unit. What happened that year? Kronwall scored over 50 points.

Kronwall is significantly better defensively. Phaneuf would be the #2 defenseman. Possibly even #3 or even #4; White fits the system better and isn't far behind offensively, and Smith fits the system better and has loads of offensive talent.

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Old
12-04-2012, 02:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by 81Leafs50 View Post
Why are the Leafs getting ***** in this trade? Leafs don't need any of these players.
Zetterberg to the Leafs would make them a much better team. Even with the loss of Phaneuf. Helm is a top-notch third-line center with scoring abilities. Replacing Grabo and MacArthur with those two up front improves the Leafs considerably.

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:07 PM
  #41
wingz rule
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Why would you give the edge to Phaneuf offensively? Kronwall has never played on the #1 PP unit except for a short period at the end of last year. In 2008-09 the second unit (Franzen/Z/Hudler/Kronwall/Samuelsson) could have been argued as a "second" #1 unit. What happened that year? Kronwall scored over 50 points.

Kronwall is significantly better defensively. Phaneuf would be the #2 defenseman. Possibly even #3 or even #4; White fits the system better and isn't far behind offensively, and Smith fits the system better and has loads of offensive talent.
There's a limit to how highly you value your own teams players. Phaneuf over his career has generally better offensive numbers than Kronwall. Sure Kronwall scored over 50 points once playing on the #1 pp but Phaneuf has hit 60 and almost reached 50 a couple of times. If you can't give him the edge offensively despite his stats being better, then I don't know what to say.

Also if you think White would be better than Phaneuf then it's quite obvious you're just hating on the guy because he's on the Leafs.

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:10 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Kronwall is significantly better defensively. Phaneuf would be the #2 defenseman. Possibly even #3 or even #4; White fits the system better and isn't far behind offensively, and Smith fits the system better and has loads of offensive talent.

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Old
12-04-2012, 04:10 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
Just wanted to see if this trade works for both sides.

To

Det
Phaneuf
Grabo
macarthur
1st 2014

Toronto
zetterberg
helm
Cap dump

Detroit gets a number 1 dman as well as a very good 2c, and a top 6 winger, and a 1st. Toronto could put zetterberg on a line with lupul and kessel and helm would be an ideal 3c. I think this deal gives each team what they need. What do all of you think
damn...

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Old
12-04-2012, 04:13 PM
  #44
pdd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingz rule View Post
There's a limit to how highly you value your own teams players. Phaneuf over his career has generally better offensive numbers than Kronwall. Sure Kronwall scored over 50 points once playing on the #1 pp but Phaneuf has hit 60 and almost reached 50 a couple of times. If you can't give him the edge offensively despite his stats being better, then I don't know what to say.

Also if you think White would be better than Phaneuf then it's quite obvious you're just hating on the guy because he's on the Leafs.
Phaneuf has averaged 38 points per-82 over the past 3 seasons. White has averaged 33. I qualify that as "not far behind". Given ice time differences, it's arguable than White is actually more effective (he was in 2009-10 in PPG, in both Calgary and Toronto). It's not that big a gap.

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Old
12-04-2012, 05:44 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Phaneuf has averaged 38 points per-82 over the past 3 seasons. White has averaged 33. I qualify that as "not far behind". Given ice time differences, it's arguable than White is actually more effective (he was in 2009-10 in PPG, in both Calgary and Toronto). It's not that big a gap.
So can I say Grabo was "not far behind" last year Zetterberg Given ice time differences, It's arguable Grabo was more effective(he was in 2010-11 and 2011-12 in GPG). It's not that big a gap.




Sounds Stupid doesn't it

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Old
12-04-2012, 05:44 PM
  #46
wingz rule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Phaneuf has averaged 38 points per-82 over the past 3 seasons. White has averaged 33. I qualify that as "not far behind". Given ice time differences, it's arguable than White is actually more effective (he was in 2009-10 in PPG, in both Calgary and Toronto). It's not that big a gap.
In terms of ice time, I'd argue in favour of phaneuf considering he can actually play about 25 minutes a game. White got more ice time last season in comparison to his 2 previous seasons and it was clear that he was feeling the fatigue down the stretch.

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:52 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey 4 Life View Post
Just wanted to see if this trade works for both sides.

To

Det
Phaneuf
Grabo
macarthur
1st 2014

Toronto
zetterberg
helm
Cap dump

Detroit gets a number 1 dman as well as a very good 2c, and a top 6 winger, and a 1st. Toronto could put zetterberg on a line with lupul and kessel and helm would be an ideal 3c. I think this deal gives each team what they need. What do all of you think
Did i miss something during the lock out ? They only way this has a chance of happening is if the Wings hired Mike Milbury and even then I am not sure he would be that dumb . Close but not quiet there . I am talking about GM Mike not the OP

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Old
12-04-2012, 06:57 PM
  #48
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So can I say Grabo was "not far behind" last year Zetterberg Given ice time differences, It's arguable Grabo was more effective(he was in 2010-11 and 2011-12 in GPG). It's not that big a gap.




Sounds Stupid doesn't it
Only sound stupid with Zetterberg name in there . With DP it sounds about right . Dion is over rated coming from a fan that lived in Calgary and watched alot of him .

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:31 AM
  #49
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Red Wings and Cap Dump?

Does not compute.

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:58 AM
  #50
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in what universe is Phaneuf a top 15 dman? Id be hard pressed to have him in the top 30...

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