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Luongo: the continuing saga ...

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Old
12-04-2012, 01:44 PM
  #151
Cogburn
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So we're back to "he's old!" and "he'll get fired if he doesn't!"?

Oof....and I thought the Anaheim/Hiller/Toronto/Perry/Getzlaf/Vancouver/Schneider thread was out of alignment.

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12-04-2012, 01:46 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
If Bozak and Kadri are involved, no way a 1st is as well. Maybe a 2nd or a 3rd.
Wouldn't be enough without a first. Neither Bozak or Kadri have much impact on our roster unless Kadri explodes. It is essentially third liners and a low pick for Lu.

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12-04-2012, 01:55 PM
  #153
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Than you could go back to a..

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Franson type of deal.

Plus Millard never said there was going to be anything else offered other than Bozak and Kadri, so why does everyone think otherwise. Is it because you don`t want to accept that that might be all you get in returnÉ Millard is definetely closer to the scene than any of us, so I`ll take his word (rumor) more than what Vancouver fans dream of acquiring.

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12-04-2012, 02:00 PM
  #154
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If Kadri explodes than he wouldn`t be dealt.

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12-04-2012, 02:06 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
It's hard to say, he wouldn't be the 1st player to want to hang onto a career.

It certainly not something to be relied on.
I'm truley amazed. We have a chance at landing a true starter for an unproven prospect and basically a 2n/3rd line center (rumoured) and you think Van should pay a penalty cost? IMO, there is no way the new CBA kills every out.

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12-04-2012, 02:12 PM
  #156
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Name some players on lifetime contracts that overstayed their welcome?
Redden comes to mind...
Drury...
Gomez wasnt life time but its already reached that point.
Basically anyone signed by NYR

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12-04-2012, 02:15 PM
  #157
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Redden comes to mind...
Drury...
Gomez wasnt life time but its already reached that point.
Basically anyone signed by NYR
Fair enough. But none of those guys were/are making peanuts in actual salary, as Luongo would be for the last 3-4 years of his contract.

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12-04-2012, 02:17 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Than you could go back to a..

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Franson type of deal.

Plus Millard never said there was going to be anything else offered other than Bozak and Kadri, so why does everyone think otherwise. Is it because you don`t want to accept that that might be all you get in returnÉ Millard is definetely closer to the scene than any of us, so I`ll take his word (rumor) more than what Vancouver fans dream of acquiring.
Franson is useless. Can we stop including him in proposals? He has utterly no value to us and wouldn't even crack the lineup. Never mind the fact he has expressed discontent with his role in Toronto. I doubt he wants the same one in Vancouver.

Is it anymore believable than the Schenn rumor? Leaf fans have been calling that nonsense for months now. Why should we buy into Millard's, besides it being a more favorable to the Leafs.

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If Kadri explodes than he wouldn`t be dealt.
I meant after he was dealt in your other proposal.

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12-04-2012, 02:53 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Than you could go back to a..

1st (top ten protected) + Kadri + Franson type of deal.

Plus Millard never said there was going to be anything else offered other than Bozak and Kadri, so why does everyone think otherwise. Is it because you don`t want to accept that that might be all you get in returnÉ Millard is definetely closer to the scene than any of us, so I`ll take his word (rumor) more than what Vancouver fans dream of acquiring.



As do I, but I want one more source from VAN's side to confirm it, before I fully buy into it. The key here is Millard is TO based, so I think he is carrying TO's perception of the deal. That _they_ feel Kadri + Bozak, based on all the talks, gets it done.



I think the deal is going to be a bit more than that, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's just that alone. Basically, it would come down to the strength of an accompanying pick, and I think the deal gets done. A 1st coming along with gets it done, or a prospect that is equivalent of a 1st like Percy/Finn.

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12-04-2012, 02:56 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
If Bozak and Kadri are involved, no way a 1st is as well. Maybe a 2nd or a 3rd.
and if thats all thats being offered up Luongo won't be a Leaf.

You keep offering up the same pieces & get shot down fairly quickly... maybe you should offer something else? Or like you've mentioned before start looking for a goalie elsewhere.

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12-04-2012, 03:06 PM
  #161
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and if thats all thats being offered up Luongo won't be a Leaf.

You keep offering up the same pieces & get shot down fairly quickly... maybe you should offer something else? Or like you've mentioned before start looking for a goalie elsewhere.
I doubt thats enough as well thing is we can shoot it down all we want fans have no say in the deal and no knowldge of talks for all we know the deal could be bozak kadri or maybe it's bigger then that we don't know

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12-04-2012, 03:18 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
I doubt thats enough as well thing is we can shoot it down all we want fans have no say in the deal and no knowldge of talks for all we know the deal could be bozak kadri or maybe it's bigger then that we don't know
Yeah you can go and believe that samjam related tweet, how have all the other ones his name was attached to worked out?

You're right us fans have no say in the deal but gauging from Gillis' asking price I think its obvious Gillis won't be giving Luongo away.

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12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
  #163
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Yeah you can go and believe that samjam related tweet, how have all the other ones his name was attached to worked out?

You're right us fans have no say in the deal but gauging from Gillis' asking price I think its obvious Gillis won't be giving Luongo away.
samjam I put no stock in but on nov 29 millard(spelling) tweeted in response to a fan that he's heard it's bozak and kadri and he does have some stock

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12-04-2012, 03:27 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I'm truley amazed. We have a chance at landing a true starter for an unproven prospect and basically a 2n/3rd line center (rumoured) and you think Van should pay a penalty cost? IMO, there is no way the new CBA kills every out.
I think Bozak and a 2nd is fair. The additional cost would be the difference between Kadri and the 2nd.

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:33 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I think Bozak and a 2nd is fair. The additional cost would be the difference between Kadri and the 2nd.
I guess you and i are on totally different wavelengths.

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12-04-2012, 03:34 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I think Bozak and a 2nd is fair. The additional cost would be the difference between Kadri and the 2nd.
I think you're wrong. Tyler Bozak should be nothing more than a throw-in.

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12-04-2012, 03:34 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Name some players on lifetime contracts that overstayed their welcome?
How can he? Pre salary cap, there would be absolutely no reason to sign a player to a massive contract that lasts well into his 40s with "dummy" years tagged on the end. This is a new thing, no?

Anyway, to me the point isn't that "Luongo might play out the whole contract just to be a jerk!" (although he might...its unlikely) but its "will Luongo continue to take up space past the point where his services are no longer required or helpful?". This is a much more likely scenario and its well within his rights to do. Basically, closer to the end of his contract he could become difficult to deal with. Granted, he might play at a high level right until 43...we don't know.

I'm not saying it will happen, but the risk has to be considered when looking at acquiring him. Its not a reason NOT to acquire him by any means, but it is a negative (depending of course on the new CBA rules). Its the price that was paid by Vancouver for a lower cap hit. Just because Vancouver was willing to do it at the time of signing doesn't mean an acquiring team shouldn't have concerns about it.

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12-04-2012, 03:38 PM
  #168
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I think Bozak and a 2nd is fair. The additional cost would be the difference between Kadri and the 2nd.
That's not enough from our end in my opinion.

I would think the Leafs could get a bit of a discount based on Luongo's contract situation, situation in Vancouver and the apparently smallish market (assuming Luongo would waive for Toronto in the first place) but that proposal is too much of a discount.

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12-04-2012, 03:42 PM
  #169
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I guess you and i are on totally different wavelengths.
Hopefully I'm right but in reality I imagine the cost will be somewhere in the middle.

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12-04-2012, 03:44 PM
  #170
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That's not enough from our end in my opinion.

I would think the Leafs could get a bit of a discount based on Luongo's contract situation, situation in Vancouver and the apparently smallish market (assuming Luongo would waive for Toronto in the first place) but that proposal is too much of a discount.
with little salary going back it would be Bozak + 2nd + cap space.

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12-04-2012, 03:51 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Spasmatic Dan View Post
How can he? Pre salary cap, there would be absolutely no reason to sign a player to a massive contract that lasts well into his 40s with "dummy" years tagged on the end. This is a new thing, no?

Anyway, to me the point isn't that "Luongo might play out the whole contract just to be a jerk!" (although he might...its unlikely) but its "will Luongo continue to take up space past the point where his services are no longer required or helpful?". This is a much more likely scenario and its well within his rights to do. Basically, closer to the end of his contract he could become difficult to deal with. Granted, he might play at a high level right until 43...we don't know.

I'm not saying it will happen, but the risk has to be considered when looking at acquiring him. Its not a reason NOT to acquire him by any means, but it is a negative (depending of course on the new CBA rules). Its the price that was paid by Vancouver for a lower cap hit. Just because Vancouver was willing to do it at the time of signing doesn't mean an acquiring team shouldn't have concerns about it.
Fair enough, although there are so many possible outs that it doesn't seem realistic to assume a team could be messed over long - term.

Any of the following would eliminate any downside to the length of the contract:

1) Luongo retires at 39 when the vast majority of his contract is payed out and he's making peanuts with respect to his salary cap.

2) Luongo wants to play longer, and is able to play at starting calibre for the remainder of his contract.

3) Luongo wants to play longer, but is only able to play backup calibre, and is therefore traded to a cap floor team like Florida to be a veteran presence and help the owners reach the cap floor for less actual salary.

4) Luongo wants to play longer, he is only of backup calibre, and there are no cap floor teams interested in a backup, he is then buried in the minors.

Only if Luongo wants to play longer, he is only of backup calibre, there are no interested cap floor teams, and the new CBA makes all one-way contracts count against the cap, and Luongo would rather play in the minors than retire would it not work out.

So it seems pretty ridiculous to assume Luongo's contract has a good chance of becoming an "albatross". In fact, I'd think it's far more likely that any piece Toronto sends would fail miserably(Kadri/1st/Colborne bust, Kulemin becomes a 5-10 goal scorer, Lupul suffers career ending injury, etc) and that there is a lot more risk that Vancouver is taking on than Toronto.

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12-04-2012, 03:54 PM
  #172
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with little salary going back it would be Bozak + 2nd + cap space.
This deal is not realistic at all. Do you actually think Gillis would take a low/middle end soon to be UFA and a 2nd? I know you are a fan hoping for the best, but come on, would you trade Luongo for that if you were Gillis? You would lose your job the following season....

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12-04-2012, 03:57 PM
  #173
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It's going to take more than a combo of a few average players to get Luongo. Quality over quantity. The thing with Vancouver is that there are plenty of decent players that would be willing to play for this team. There's no point in the Canucks trading Luongo for a combo of a few average players when we can just get something similar without giving up anything.

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12-04-2012, 05:30 PM
  #174
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TRADE OFFER!

To Vancouver:
Tyler Bozak
Nazem Kadri
Ben Scrivens
1st in 2014

To Toronto:
Brendan Gaunce
Roberto Luongo

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12-04-2012, 05:32 PM
  #175
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TRADE OFFER!

To Vancouver:
Tyler Bozak
Nazem Kadri
Ben Scrivens
1st in 2014

To Toronto:
Brendan Gaunce
Roberto Luongo
We aren't interested in adding any good prospects in order to trade Luongo. We're even less interested in Scrivens.

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