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Marc Staal to St. Louis

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:06 AM
  #51
3rdlineglory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
It's a logical argument. Blues couldn't possibly afford to give up the two best offensive weapons they have, but it's not like Marc Staal is anything less than a top pairing defenseman.

I hope Rangers do well. I like their team and the way they play. Wouldn't mind at all a 7 games series with them.
But, but it would be boring

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12-04-2012, 11:18 AM
  #52
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Saw this this morning and thought something surrounding Shattenkirk and Stewart for Staal.

Stewart would add some solid size and toughness to a somewhat vanilla group of forwards the Rangers have.

He did struggle offensively in a defensive system and since we are a very similar team as the Blues in that regards, he may struggle here as well, but I think he's worth the gamble.

Kreider - Boyle - Stewart as the Rangers 3rd line would be very tough to handle physically.

Kreider - 6'3" and 230 lbs
Boyle - 6'7" and 244 lbs
Stewart - 6'2" and 230 lbs

That would be impressive and very wearing on opposing defenceman.

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12-04-2012, 11:34 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Saw this this morning and thought something surrounding Shattenkirk and Stewart for Staal.

Stewart would add some solid size and toughness to a somewhat vanilla group of forwards the Rangers have.

He did struggle offensively in a defensive system and since we are a very similar team as the Blues in that regards, he may struggle here as well, but I think he's worth the gamble.

Kreider - Boyle - Stewart as the Rangers 3rd line would be very tough to handle physically.

Kreider - 6'3" and 230 lbs
Boyle - 6'7" and 244 lbs
Stewart - 6'2" and 230 lbs

That would be impressive and very wearing on opposing defenceman.
I like the trade, but I don't agree with the bolded. Rupp, Nash, Kreider, Callahan, Asham, Pyatt, Boyle is a group that has a good amount of size and physicality. Unless of course you're an Avery fanboy

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12-04-2012, 11:37 AM
  #54
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Trade Marc to the Blue before he bolts for the Carolina first chance he gets...

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12-04-2012, 12:08 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdlineglory View Post
I like the trade, but I don't agree with the bolded. Rupp, Nash, Kreider, Callahan, Asham, Pyatt, Boyle is a group that has a good amount of size and physicality. Unless of course you're an Avery fanboy
I like Avery as a player, but that's besides the point.

Not really thrilled with the idea that Rupp and Asham play more than 7-8 minutes a night

Not really impressed with Pyatt's overall physical game, nor am I with that of Nash's either (not really what we got him for)

Callahan is a very gritty player and I like that.

Still pretty vanilla top 9.

The Rangers are stiff to play against. And by that I mean they take an awful lot of punishment and are still in enough games to win.

I would like to see the Rangers initiate and deliver contact more than they accept.

I like the Avery mindset in that he looks to eliminate the player when he makes a hit. The side show stuff I can take or leave, but the mindset is what I believe the Rangers need more of.

Of the players you mention above, Asham, Callahan and Rupp have that. The other guys...not so much.

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12-04-2012, 12:09 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Trade Marc to the Blue before he bolts for the Carolina first chance he gets...
saw what you did there....

good one

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Old
12-04-2012, 12:14 PM
  #57
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Shattenkirk is an interesting starting point. He is a downgrade defensively (and overall), but an upgrade offensively, and he is RH, which is a need.

McD - Girardi
Staal -
MDZ -

or

McD - Girardi
MDZ - Shattenkirk

Obviously, we just play MDZ and Staal together a lot on the 2nd pairing, but a RH shot with PP/offensive upside IS a need. It's just not enough of a need to part with Staal without a + coming back too, and I don't know what the + should be because futures don't make us better NOW and we're definitely in win-now. Shattenkirk + Schwartz/Stewart/Berglund/Oshie/Perron for Staal + (pick/prospects depending on which forward comes back) would be an interesting scenario, even if it's highly unlikely.


Last edited by SERE 24: 12-04-2012 at 12:40 PM.
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Old
12-04-2012, 12:26 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I like Avery as a player, but that's besides the point.

Not really thrilled with the idea that Rupp and Asham play more than 7-8 minutes a night

Not really impressed with Pyatt's overall physical game, nor am I with that of Nash's either (not really what we got him for)

Callahan is a very gritty player and I like that.

Still pretty vanilla top 9.

The Rangers are stiff to play against. And by that I mean they take an awful lot of punishment and are still in enough games to win.

I would like to see the Rangers initiate and deliver contact more than they accept.

I like the Avery mindset in that he looks to eliminate the player when he makes a hit. The side show stuff I can take or leave, but the mindset is what I believe the Rangers need more of.

Of the players you mention above, Asham, Callahan and Rupp have that. The other guys...not so much.
I gotcha. I just thought you were one of those people that freaked out last September when Avery got cut and claimed how the Rangers are all of a sudden soft. So you meant the Rangers could use an agitator? Asham isn't so bad, but I agree on Rupp I think he's overpaid and isn't that useful. I don't mind Avery either and wouldn't mind seeing him back.

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12-04-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdlineglory View Post
I gotcha. I just thought you were one of those people that freaked out last September when Avery got cut and claimed how the Rangers are all of a sudden soft. So you meant the Rangers could use an agitator? Asham isn't so bad, but I agree on Rupp I think he's overpaid and isn't that useful. I don't mind Avery either and wouldn't mind seeing him back.
Not so much an agitator, just a different mindset from their forwards.

I like Asham. Would like his desire to hit guys rub off on Boyle.

Chris Stewart on this Rangers team would be interesting.

Hagelin/Kreider - Richards/Stepan - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan/Richards - Callahan
Kreider/Hagelin - Boyle - Stewart
Rupp/Asham - Halpern - Pyatt/Asham

Nice problem to have

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12-04-2012, 01:00 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Not so much an agitator, just a different mindset from their forwards.

I like Asham. Would like his desire to hit guys rub off on Boyle.

Chris Stewart on this Rangers team would be interesting.

Hagelin/Kreider - Richards/Stepan - Gaborik
Nash - Stepan/Richards - Callahan
Kreider/Hagelin - Boyle - Stewart
Rupp/Asham - Halpern - Pyatt/Asham

Nice problem to have
I think the mindset comes from the Rangers frequently being on their heels. If they were driving the play more often, they would come off as more aggressive. Hopefully, Torts tweaks the system to one that is more centered around greater puck possession or a more aggressive forecheck. The Rangers added a lot of speed recently and supposedly Torts is an adaptable coach. As for Stewart, I remember a few Dubinsky for Stewart suggestions since both struggled offensively last year. He seems like a good player that could still rebound. Staal for Shattenkirk and Stewart seems like a good idea even with Erixon gone as insurance.

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12-04-2012, 01:04 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Shattenkirk is an interesting starting point. He is a downgrade defensively (and overall), but an upgrade offensively, and he is RH, which is a need.

McD - Girardi
Staal -
MDZ -

or

McD - Girardi
MDZ - Shattenkirk

Obviously, we just play MDZ and Staal together a lot on the 2nd pairing, but a RH shot with PP/offensive upside IS a need. It's just not enough of a need to part with Staal without a + coming back too, and I don't know what the + should be because futures don't make us better NOW and we're definitely in win-now. Shattenkirk + Schwartz/Stewart/Berglund/Oshie/Perron for Staal + (pick/prospects depending on which forward comes back) would be an interesting scenario, even if it's highly unlikely.
If it would be Shattenkirk + Perron/Oshie/Berglund, the + coming back from the Rangers would have to be fairly sginificant.

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12-04-2012, 04:23 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
If it would be Shattenkirk + Perron/Oshie/Berglund, the + coming back from the Rangers would have to be fairly sginificant.
Then there wouldn't be a deal, which is more than fine with us. We don't want, or have to move Marc. If the offer doesn't blow us away, try and obtain a 1st pairing, 25 year old dmen elsewhere.

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12-04-2012, 04:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Then there wouldn't be a deal, which is more than fine with us. We don't want, or have to move Marc. If the offer doesn't blow us away, try and obtain a 1st pairing, 25 year old dmen elsewhere.
Fair enough

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12-04-2012, 04:25 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by 3rdlineglory View Post
I think the mindset comes from the Rangers frequently being on their heels. If they were driving the play more often, they would come off as more aggressive. Hopefully, Torts tweaks the system to one that is more centered around greater puck possession or a more aggressive forecheck. The Rangers added a lot of speed recently and supposedly Torts is an adaptable coach. As for Stewart, I remember a few Dubinsky for Stewart suggestions since both struggled offensively last year. He seems like a good player that could still rebound. Staal for Shattenkirk and Stewart seems like a good idea even with Erixon gone as insurance.
There are so many nickels and dimes cluttered throughout the league. Not many quarters though. I have no interest in moving the best player in any deal. We're not hurting for depth.

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12-04-2012, 04:26 PM
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Fair enough
That's not at all an insult either. There just needs to be a real motive for this swap, and I'm just not seeing it.

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12-04-2012, 04:32 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
That's not at all an insult either. There just needs to be a real motive for this swap, and I'm just not seeing it.
Mo I totally get it. I just am very jealous you guys have staal

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12-04-2012, 06:39 PM
  #67
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One Callahan is enough. Let's get something we need.
Backes is an elite 2nd line center. He is better than Richards and Kesler and on par with Bergeron IMO. He is absolutely the missing piece on the forward corps as I don't think Stepan is a viable 2nd line center on a cup caliber team as of now.

Nash-Richards-Gaborik
Hagelin-Backes-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Pyatt
Haley-Boyle-Asham

Filthy.

In essence, it makes zero sense to move Staal for complimentary pieces like Steen, Polak, Perron, etc. If we are moving him, it's obviously for an upgrade on defense or an upgrade at center over Stepan. Two players that come to mind are Pietrangelo and Backes.

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12-04-2012, 06:41 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
It's a logical argument. Blues couldn't possibly afford to give up the two best offensive weapons they have, but it's not like Marc Staal is anything less than a top pairing defenseman.

I hope Rangers do well. I like their team and the way they play. Wouldn't mind at all a 7 games series with them.
Careful what you wish for...

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12-04-2012, 06:49 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Then there wouldn't be a deal, which is more than fine with us. We don't want, or have to move Marc. If the offer doesn't blow us away, try and obtain a 1st pairing, 25 year old dmen elsewhere.
That's basically the same position we're in, except Shattenkirk is 23.

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12-04-2012, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
In essence, it makes zero sense to move Staal for complimentary pieces like Steen, Polak, Perron, etc. If we are moving him, it's obviously for an upgrade on defense or an upgrade at center over Stepan. Two players that come to mind are Pietrangelo and Backes.
And this would never happen. Pietrangelo is about as close to untouchable as possible. Backes is the captain and the embodiment of what we want from our forwards, and is right behind Pietrangelo in terms of untouchability.

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12-04-2012, 07:40 PM
  #71
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No way are we trading Shattenkirk for Staal. What St.Louis has available is young talented wingers. Guys like Stewart(RW), Schwartz(LW/C?), Rattie(RW/LW), and D'Agostini(RW/LW). Then of course prospects and draft picks. We might also include one of Cole(LD/RD) or Russell(LD) IF need be...That's pretty much what we have to offer right now trade wise, and Army would probably be willing to overpay for the right guy.

Here's what I would offer:

Stewart, Cole, and Rattie OR 1st Round Pick

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12-04-2012, 07:44 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Backes is an elite 2nd line center. He is better than Richards and Kesler and on par with Bergeron IMO. He is absolutely the missing piece on the forward corps as I don't think Stepan is a viable 2nd line center on a cup caliber team as of now.

Nash-Richards-Gaborik
Hagelin-Backes-Callahan
Kreider-Stepan-Pyatt
Haley-Boyle-Asham

Filthy.

In essence, it makes zero sense to move Staal for complimentary pieces like Steen, Polak, Perron, etc. If we are moving him, it's obviously for an upgrade on defense or an upgrade at center over Stepan. Two players that come to mind are Pietrangelo and Backes.
Backes isn't that big of an upgrade offensively over Stepan. When I said something we need, I meant offense. Sure that would give us pretty ridiculous depth, but for Marc Staal I want more than 54 points coming back.

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12-04-2012, 08:03 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Backes isn't that big of an upgrade offensively over Stepan. When I said something we need, I meant offense. Sure that would give us pretty ridiculous depth, but for Marc Staal I want more than 54 points coming back.
Disgusting, nice downplayer. Backes is two time 30 goal scorer while playing next to phenomenal defense but hes not that much of an upgrade over Stepan's 21 goal season.

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12-04-2012, 08:33 PM
  #74
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If Backes or Shattenkirk aren't coming back you can forget about Staal coming to St. Louis. Backes is Callahan 2.0 and you can never have too many of those. Schwartz has little to no value to us, we need improvement NOW. There is no point making Rangers proposals that involve roster players going for futures.

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12-04-2012, 08:33 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by AP27Blues View Post
Disgusting, nice downplayer. Backes is two time 30 goal scorer while playing next to phenomenal defense but hes not that much of an upgrade over Stepan's 21 goal season.
Stepan is a playmaker, not a goal scorer. He is a lock for 50-60 points, and Backes' career high is 62 or something in one season. We can upgrade Step's outlook to 60-70 points in an 82-game season with Gaborik and a developed Hagelin/Kreider on his wings. Although he's not a defensive liability a la Semin, he's nowhere near Backes' two-way level, which is the only real big advantage Backes has. It would make no sense to have a line of three goal-scorers.

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