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Luongo: the continuing saga ...

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:34 PM
  #226
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
I`m sorry, did he speculate on more being involved...no he didn`t.

Checkmate.


Haha. Did he clarify the full parameters of the deal? There is nothing conclusive here. There are two main pieces from TO, but are they _all_ the pieces?


Further, how is Millard getting this information over other insiders?


Stick to checkers.

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12-04-2012, 08:35 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Sure he does, Reimer and Scrivens.

I would love for Vancouver to be stuck with Luongo. You say you`d be ok with that, but at some point you`d realize that spending nearly 10 million on one position in a cap world is just retarded.
9 million for Luongo and Scheider or 2 million for Scrivens and Reimer?

You get what you pay for.

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12-04-2012, 08:35 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Sure he does, Reimer and Scrivens.

I would love for Vancouver to be stuck with Luongo. You say you`d be ok with that, but at some point you`d realize that spending nearly 10 million on one position in a cap world is just retarded.


Reimer and Scrivens? Really? That's like the Canucks saying if Luongo and Schneider and Lack get hurt we're okay and don't need another goalie because we have Cannata and Climie.

Being "stuck" with an elite top 5 goalie sounds so awful. I guess we'll just have to sit here and suffer through another President's trophy season. Oh how awful.

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12-04-2012, 08:36 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Because it's wrong. Burke is dealing from a disadvantage...he doesn't have a goalie. The Canucks have two goalies and don't HAVE to move either of them.
You'd think by now we wouldn't need to scream this from a mountain top but no such luck.

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12-04-2012, 08:37 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
No one will want Luongo any more at the deadline as his contract still sucks than as well.
Teams will want Luongo more with each passing game. They know he can singlehandedly be the difference between making or missing the playoffs, as well as a GM keeping or losing his job.

If teams want him now, they will want him even more at the deadline.

Gardiner, 5th overall pick, Bozak and Frattin. That's what gillis was after. Let's work off what we know.

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12-04-2012, 08:39 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That thinking is incredibly flawed. The Leafs are not doing the Canucks a favour by taking on a top 5 goalie from us, who was the main reason we won back to back President's trophies and got to game 7 of the SCF. That's not a favour, that's capitalizing on an opportunity. The Leafs don't have a goalie, the Canucks have two.

Lupul, Kadri and a 1st round pick for Luongo + Kelser.
That`s more like it.



Luongo IS NOT A TOP 5 GOALIE! Who are you kidding. If he was why would you be dealing him. Especially since you think he has an incredible contract too.

You guys think Schneider is better than Luongo, and you think Luongo is top 5, so that would mean Schneider is a top 4 goalie. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING. You`re only fooling yourselves.

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12-04-2012, 08:40 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Keep him til he`s 42 than. Fine by me. Leafs are doing you a favor by taking it on. You should really be sending us more of value in the deal, but all you Van fans would froth at the mouth if it was suggested.

Bozak + Kadri is all we have to go off of at this point.


Don't do us any favours. We'll keep him. Thank you for your time and I'm glad we have concluded your involvement. Regards.


Oh, and FYI, we also have Gardiner + 5th overall + Bozak + Frattin to go off of. Should we continue from there?

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12-04-2012, 08:41 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Haha. Did he clarify the full parameters of the deal? There is nothing conclusive here. There are two main pieces from TO, but are they _all_ the pieces?


Further, how is Millard getting this information over other insiders?


Stick to checkers.
So you can speculate, but I can`t. WOW. Now I know why everyone hates Vancouver fans. Total sense of entitlement here.

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12-04-2012, 08:41 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
That`s more like it.



Luongo IS NOT A TOP 5 GOALIE! Who are you kidding. If he was why would you be dealing him. Especially since you think he has an incredible contract too.

You guys think Schneider is better than Luongo, and you think Luongo is top 5, so that would mean Schneider is a top 4 goalie. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING. You`re only fooling yourselves.
Uhh I wouldn't trade Kesler for anyone on your team

Luongo IS A TOP 5 GOALIE! Who are you kidding. The Canucks have two star goalies who both want to start, that makes it convenient for us to deal one of them to address holes elsewhere in our lineup. We don't HAVE to move either one of them, and if teams like Toronto want to screw around then we'll just sob our way to another dominant season while Burke gets squeezed out after another failure of a season. No problems there.

We think Schneider COULD be better than Luongo, but he hasn't proven yet that he is. Meanwhile Luongo has proven he is a top 5 goalie, and he still is. Who do you think you are fooling? You're a team without a top 25 goalie.

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12-04-2012, 08:41 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Fair enough, although there are so many possible outs that it doesn't seem realistic to assume a team could be messed over long - term.

Any of the following would eliminate any downside to the length of the contract:

1) Luongo retires at 39 when the vast majority of his contract is payed out and he's making peanuts with respect to his salary cap.

2) Luongo wants to play longer, and is able to play at starting calibre for the remainder of his contract.

3) Luongo wants to play longer, but is only able to play backup calibre, and is therefore traded to a cap floor team like Florida to be a veteran presence and help the owners reach the cap floor for less actual salary.

4) Luongo wants to play longer, he is only of backup calibre, and there are no cap floor teams interested in a backup, he is then buried in the minors.

Only if Luongo wants to play longer, he is only of backup calibre, there are no interested cap floor teams, and the new CBA makes all one-way contracts count against the cap, and Luongo would rather play in the minors than retire would it not work out.

So it seems pretty ridiculous to assume Luongo's contract has a good chance of becoming an "albatross". In fact, I'd think it's far more likely that any piece Toronto sends would fail miserably(Kadri/1st/Colborne bust, Kulemin becomes a 5-10 goal scorer, Lupul suffers career ending injury, etc) and that there is a lot more risk that Vancouver is taking on than Toronto.
Oh there are definitely ways out. Once the rules are fully ironed out we will see the true risk.

Its this concern that makes people not like the contract I think.

Trades are always risky of course.

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12-04-2012, 08:41 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
You guys think Schneider is better than Luongo, and you think Luongo is top 5, so that would mean Schneider is a top 4 goalie. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING. You`re only fooling yourselves.
Why is it so hard to believe that an elite team that relies on 2 goalies has 2 elite goalies?

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12-04-2012, 08:42 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
That`s more like it.



Luongo IS NOT A TOP 5 GOALIE! Who are you kidding. If he was why would you be dealing him. Especially since you think he has an incredible contract too.

You guys think Schneider is better than Luongo, and you think Luongo is top 5, so that would mean Schneider is a top 4 goalie. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING. You`re only fooling yourselves.
Schneider is easily a top 4 backup goalie. In fact, he's probably the best backup goalie in the league. Calling him an elite backup goaltender is certainly appropriate.

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12-04-2012, 08:44 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
No one will want Luongo any more at the deadline as his contract still sucks than as well.
Just to spin a scenario. Washington nearly missed the playoffs and weren't doing so hot around the deadline. Chicago had similar difficulties the year prior. Do you not think either would be willing to pay for Lu or Schneider to better their playoff chances? What if Edmonton or god forbid Toronto are in this position? You're saying you would rather chance missing the playoffs again, then give up Kadri++?

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12-04-2012, 08:46 PM
  #239
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Ok we'll based on that logic Lapierre is a UFA if the season gets wiped out too, so he would either be resigned or let go. He couldn't be traded based on your scenario. If there is a season however you do have all those centres. Do you see my point?
yes but i'd like steal a saying from HF quality over quantity I'd raper have laps then connolly lombardi or steckel although I can see a lapierre-steckel-brown line working

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12-04-2012, 08:47 PM
  #240
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The following are better goalies...

Fleury
Lundqvist
Thomas
Miller
Kiprusoff
Quick
Price
Rinne
Broduer
Halak

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12-04-2012, 08:48 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
That`s more like it.



Luongo IS NOT A TOP 5 GOALIE! Who are you kidding. If he was why would you be dealing him. Especially since you think he has an incredible contract too.

You guys think Schneider is better than Luongo, and you think Luongo is top 5, so that would mean Schneider is a top 4 goalie. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE FOOLING. You`re only fooling yourselves.
Correction, we believe, and rightly so, Luongo is a top 5-10 goalie and Schneider has the potential to be. Right now, as of this moment I slot Lu ahead of Schneider but for how long, who knows.

Frankly, how isn't Luongo at least top 10? Lundqvist, Rinne and Quick top him, sure. Price is a good candidate but even that is debatable. So how are Ward, Miller, Leighton or whomever so much better than Luongo?

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12-04-2012, 08:50 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Correction, we believe, and rightly so, Luongo is a top 5-10 goalie and Schneider has the potential to be. Right now, as of this moment I slot Lu ahead of Schneider but for how long, who knows.

Frankly, how isn't Luongo at least top 10? Lundqvist, Rinne and Quick top him, sure. Price is a good candidate but even that is debatable. So how are Ward, Miller, Leighton or whomever so much better than Luongo?
Luongo is a top 10-12 goalie

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12-04-2012, 08:52 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
The following are better goalies...

Fleury
Lundqvist
Thomas
Miller
Kiprusoff
Quick
Price
Rinne
Broduer
Halak
However flawed that list is, please try and acquire one of those goalies.

Maybe Bozak + Kadri lands you a Rinne/Halak/Kipper/Quick

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12-04-2012, 08:52 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
The following are better goalies...

Fleury
Lundqvist
Thomas
Miller
Kiprusoff
Quick
Price
Rinne
Broduer
Halak
Thomas is debateable after a year off.

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12-04-2012, 08:53 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
So you can speculate, but I can`t. WOW. Now I know why everyone hates Vancouver fans. Total sense of entitlement here.


You're not speculating. You are taking information more favourable to your position and discounting that which is disfavourable. Let's speculate on _all_ the information available shall we?


Nice shot at the general fanbase. I can say that I don't take issue with the TO fanbase as a whole, just select posters. And as you can tell from multiple VAN fans trying to talk some sense into you, that we share a perception of what poster in particular we are taking issue with. See, no stereotype.

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12-04-2012, 08:56 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
The following are better goalies...

Fleury
Lundqvist
Thomas
Miller
Kiprusoff
Quick
Price
Rinne
Broduer
Halak


Might want to look up these guys stats and compare them to Luongos.

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12-04-2012, 08:59 PM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
The following are better goalies...

Fleury - no
Lundqvist - yes
Thomas - yes but old
Miller - no
Kiprusoff - no
Quick - yes
Price - yes/no based off opinion
Rinne - yes
Broduer - no (not now)
Halak - no
Answers in quote.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-05-2012 at 12:48 AM. Reason: clarification
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12-04-2012, 09:00 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
The following are better goalies...

Fleury - Yeah, the only goalie where even the Bruin series can't be used as an excuse.
Lundqvist
Thomas - He's not playing, otherwise I'd agree.
Miller - In only 2009-2010 has Miller ever had a better SV% or GGA
Kiprusoff - Only twice has he topped Lu in SV% and let in significantly more goals in all but one year
Quick
Price - Debatable
Rinne
Broduer - Not at his current age
Halak - He has two very solid years in defensive oriented systems but also plays much less games. Lu has a greater degree of consistency
Answers in quote. Blanks I agree with you.

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12-04-2012, 09:01 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
The following are better goalies...

Fleury
Lundqvist
Thomas
Miller
Kiprusoff
Quick
Price
Rinne
Broduer
Halak
After the years these 5 goalies had I'd say it's highly debatable they are better goalies.

Wherever you play Luongo, be it Top 5 or Top 10. He's going to garner a hell of a lot more then Tyler ****ing Bozak.

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12-04-2012, 09:05 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Luongo is a top 10-12 goalie
Nope.

Lundqvist
Quick
Rinne
Luongo/Price

Is about how it would go. Again unless Thomas returns and can actually play at the level he did, I'm not listing him.

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